And to think Todd was basically just thrown into the job and its fair to say he has pulled this years draft well compared to the other spuds..

Don't get me started on Prendergast again, I am ready to explode.

I would compare him to a garbage man who drops all the rubbish in the street,

a jockey who keeps falling off every horse he mounts,

a clown who makes people cry,

a soccer player who is allergic to grass,

a mechanic who doesn't know what an engine is,

a dieter who lives on junk food,

a high jumper who is scared of heights,

a swimmer who can't float,

a cafe without coffee,

a liferaft with holes in it,

a pair of shoes with both lefties,

a box of popcorn with only the kernels,

a bbq without heat,

a cricket bat without a handle,

a guitar without strings,

a bucket with no bottom,

etc, etc.

PS. Feel free to add more.

Edited September 2, 201312 yr by Redleg

Don't get me started on Prendergast again, I am ready to explode.

I would compare him to a garbage man who drops all the rubbish in the street,

a jockey who keeps falling off every horse he mounts,

a clown who makes people cry,

a soccer player who is allergic to grass,

a mechanic who doesn't know what an engine is,

a dieter who lives on junk food,

a high jumper who is scared of heights,

a swimmer who can't float,

a cafe without coffee,

a liferaft with holes in it,

a pair of shoes with both lefties,

a box of popcorn with only the kernels,

a bbq without heat,

a cricket bat without a handle,

a guitar without strings,

a bucket with no bottom,

etc, etc.

PS. Feel free to add more.

Tell us what your really think of him lol

And yet you're giving him no scope for improvement, but are allowing that for Toumpas, Evans, McKenzie (IMO), and Aish (no AFL experience). He's gutsy, a great worker, reads the play, gets a lot of it, and was getting bugger all help in a disorganised mess of a midfield. What makes you think you've seen the best of Matt Jones?

What I'm hoping for is improvement from Toumpas, Evans, Matt Jones and a good pick 2 (maybe Aish) and that they are all in and out of the side due to pressure for spots. That's what we really need for our midfield. Unless Toumpas really steps it up and Aish is a gun from day one and holds down the other wing but really at the moment every midfield at Melbourne besides Nath Jones could improve almost 50% and still not be a regular in a top 4 side.

I agree, Chook. Some of the recruiting looks very attractive at the moment but sitting next to them are Gillies, Pederson, Rodan etc...

Kent, M Jones, Terlich, could actually teach players like Watts and Sylvia about application.

Add Hogan and Barry and the recruiting looks passable.

I'd put the blame for Gillies, Rodan, Pedersen and Byrnes squarely on Kelly O'Donnell, considering his role as the pro scout.

Don't get me started on Prendergast again, I am ready to explode.

To think that Richmond has got to 5th by drafting Deledio, Cotchin, Martin and Conca ... all midfielders with first-round picks ... then topped up with Grigg and Houli, while we fiddle-faddled around with Morton, Gysberts, Scully, Watts and Cook, then topped up with Sellar, Meesen and Joel Macdonald.

We didn't even pick the other Grimes.

Shall I light the fuse?

To think that Richmond has got to 5th by drafting Deledio, Cotchin, Martin and Conca ... all midfielders with first-round picks ... then topped up with Grigg and Houli, while we fiddle-faddled around with Morton, Gysberts, Scully, Watts and Cook, then topped up with Sellar, Meesen and Joel Macdonald.We didn't even pick the other Grimes.Shall I light the fuse?

It 's lit.

It 's lit.

I'll stay indoors for the next few minutes.

Rubbish.

Not really.

Moloney's absence may be the closest thing to 'hurting' us as you've got.

No Rivers doesn't bother me at all, given our defence.

No Petterd bothers me even less, given he's crap.

What I'm hoping for is improvement from Toumpas, Evans, Matt Jones and a good pick 2 (maybe Aish) and that they are all in and out of the side due to pressure for spots. That's what we really need for our midfield. Unless Toumpas really steps it up and Aish is a gun from day one and holds down the other wing but really at the moment every midfield at Melbourne besides Nath Jones could improve almost 50% and still not be a regular in a top 4 side.

Probably, but at least they'd be 50% better! On Aish, it amazes me when people assume first round draftees will be in the top choice 22 in their first year. You'd think we would learn! And statistically across the AFL, I'd be surprised if it were actually the case.

Don't get me started on Prendergast again, I am ready to explode.

I would compare him to a garbage man who drops all the rubbish in the street,

a jockey who keeps falling off every horse he mounts,

a clown who makes people cry,

a soccer player who is allergic to grass,

a mechanic who doesn't know what an engine is,

a dieter who lives on junk food,

a high jumper who is scared of heights,

a swimmer who can't float,

a cafe without coffee,

a liferaft with holes in it,

a pair of shoes with both lefties,

a box of popcorn with only the kernels,

a bbq without heat,

a cricket bat without a handle,

a guitar without strings,

a bucket with no bottom,

etc, etc.

PS. Feel free to add more.

A pub with no beer

Not really.

Moloney's absence may be the closest thing to 'hurting' us as you've got.

No Rivers doesn't bother me at all, given our defence.

No Petterd bothers me even less, given he's crap.

For a crap player he's done well to make Richmond's best 22. A top 8 side.

Dont defend Neeld's garbage oversight in assuming everything would be hunky dory without Moloney and Rivers. He was clearly wrong, and the handling of both players was wrong. C'est la vie.

The story of this club's rubbish treatment of its senior players doesn't begin and end with Junior. It is all a contributing part of the environment that has led to this debacle of a season.

This isn't a defence of Beamer's handling of the situation, btw.

As for Terlich and Matt Jones, I admire what they have both been able to do as first year players. Immense really, all things considered. However at this stage I only see Terlich as a longer term prospect. Happy to be wrong, but if we're lacking 5 or 6 midfielders, 5 or 6 have to make way for those who are incoming.

Loved Terlich and M Jones work all year. If Roos does come I think Terlich may thrive as he will have an understanding of whats Roos requires and you would think that being dropped and getting a second chance after spending time in state leagues would have matured him. (one can hope anyway)

i love M Jones inside work and another year running with N JONES and J VINEY will make improve their teamwork. I love his spreading from congestion and how he often provides an option for his team mates. I think Roos will love his workrate and once Roos adds his directions and structures he can only get better. I tip a big step for M Jones next year under the right coach.

For a crap player he's done well to make Richmond's best 22. A top 8 side.

Dont defend Neeld's garbage oversight in assuming everything would be hunky dory without Moloney and Rivers. He was clearly wrong, and the handling of both players was wrong. C'est la vie.

The story of this club's rubbish treatment of its senior players doesn't begin and end with Junior. It is all a contributing part of the environment that has led to this debacle of a season.

This isn't a defence of Beamer's handling of the situation, btw.

As for Terlich and Matt Jones, I admire what they have both been able to do as first year players. Immense really, all things considered. However at this stage I only see Terlich as a longer term prospect. Happy to be wrong, but if we're lacking 5 or 6 midfielders, 5 or 6 have to make way for those who are incoming.

Ricky Bobby is barely a fringe player at Richmond and will hurt us like Cheney and Bruce did at Hawthorn and Simon Buckley did at the Pies. No big loss.

Ricky Bobby is barely a fringe player at Richmond and will hurt us like Cheney and Bruce did at Hawthorn and Simon Buckley did at the Pies. No big loss.

It seems we are far more successful at getting rid of players than recruiting or developing them.

Ricky Bobby is barely a fringe player at Richmond and will hurt us like Cheney and Bruce did at Hawthorn and Simon Buckley did at the Pies. No big loss.

Simply not true. He has played 11 games this season in a finals side, including the last three consecutive rounds. If you can tell me which injured player or players are going to come in to replace him, fine. Otherwise, to cast him off as a fringe player and liken him to Cheney at Hawthorn is doing him a disservice.

Has his absence hurt like Moloney or Rivers? No. But he was good enough to keep on the list in my view.

Simply not true. He has played 11 games this season in a finals side, including the last three consecutive rounds. If you can tell me which injured player or players are going to come in to replace him, fine. Otherwise, to cast him off as a fringe player and liken him to Cheney at Hawthorn is doing him a disservice.

Has his absence hurt like Moloney or Rivers? No. But he was good enough to keep on the list in my view.

The point was that the loss hasn't hurt the club, and I say that with the context that we have far more important players to keep in the next few years while we rebuild again.

Petterd's form last year was stunning.

Honestly, I'm amazed anyone's even bothering to mention him in the context of "lost" players. Delisting him was an absolute no-brainer on output at the time.

Petterd's form last year was stunning.

Honestly, I'm amazed anyone's even bothering to mention him in the context of "lost" players. Delisting him was an absolute no-brainer on output at the time.

Output at the time being output under Neeld? Not exactly the best barometer of a player's talent.

I'm not losing sleep over Petterd, I'm simply not agreeing that he's "crap", and I'm certainly not agreeing that the loss of Moloney and Rivers hasn't hurt or contributed towards what was season 2013.

It seems we are far more successful at getting rid of players than recruiting or developing them.

Anyone can burn a bridge. It takes skill to build one.

I would hope that in 2014 Sylvia, N.Jones, Viney, Trengove, Toumpas and possibly Aish would be picked ahead of him. That's before any trades/free-agent signings Recent form I'd include McKenzie and maybe even the forgotten man Evans on that list too.

Cant believe anybody here would even think about having Colin continue much less as a permanent member of our midfield

Colin is a serious underperformer who has cooked his own goose.I just hope Roos is smart enough to know it and wave him good bye good riddance Col

Output at the time being output under Neeld? Not exactly the best barometer of a player's talent.

I'm not losing sleep over Petterd, I'm simply not agreeing that he's "crap", and I'm certainly not agreeing that the loss of Moloney and Rivers hasn't hurt or contributed towards what was season 2013.

2012 was 2013 with Moloney and Rivers. We sucked then and we suck now and they have a few years left.

Frawley leaving would hurt, Jones leaving, Hogan, etc.

I have attachments to older players if they are selfless leaders while still contributing onfield. I refuse to believe that this season would have been anything other than a disaster if we still had these players.

Our future is not diminished by their exit.

Their loss didn't hurt.

2012 was 2013 with Moloney and Rivers. We sucked then and we suck now and they have a few years left.

Frawley leaving would hurt, Jones leaving, Hogan, etc.

I have attachments to older players if they are selfless leaders while still contributing onfield. I refuse to believe that this season would have been anything other than a disaster if we still had these players.

Our future is not diminished by their exit.

Their loss didn't hurt.

Rivers is in Geelongs best 22 when fit. Geelong for crying out loud!

Moloney has played some great footy for the Lions and whilst personally I don't have any issues with his departure due to his unwillingness to change, to say we've not suffered from his absence and to then look at the massive clearance diferential this year is delusional. I'm almost sorry to say but Neeld blew that one big time.

Petterd has been serviceable for the Tigers.

Rivers is in Geelongs best 22 when fit. Geelong for crying out loud!

Moloney has played some great footy for the Lions and whilst personally I don't have any issues with his departure due to his unwillingness to change, to say we've not suffered from his absence and to then look at the massive clearance diferential this year is delusional. I'm almost sorry to say but Neeld blew that one big time.

Petterd has been serviceable for the Tigers.

I am delusional?

I am talking about hurt here - pain?

Put Moloney, Rivers, and Petterd into our side and we will lose to people by 2 goals less than we would have and did.

Again, those three into our 2013 side = our 2012 side.

And they only have a few years left.

This isn't defence of Neeld if some are going on the tangent of thinking that - I am simply saying that the loss of these three players, plus Morton, Gysberts, Martin, and Bennell, did not hurt the long term, or medium term outlook for the playing list.

I am delusional?

I am talking about hurt here - pain?

Put Moloney, Rivers, and Petterd into our side and we will lose to people by 2 goals less than we would have and did.

Again, those three into our 2013 side = our 2012 side.

And they only have a few years left.

This isn't defence of Neeld if some are going on the tangent of thinking that - I am simply saying that the loss of these three players, plus Morton, Gysberts, Martin, and Bennell, did not hurt the long term, or medium term outlook for the playing list.

Now you're arguing something slightly different. No-one mentioned medium and long term. The question is did the absence of Moloney and Rivers hurt this year. Yes, it did. They would also have been handy next season.

You can't state we would've lost by 2 goals less as fact. Look at the impact Moloney had at Brisbane this year when he was allowed to play his natural game out of the middle. He likely would've been given the same freedom under Craig. Certainly, Nate Jones wouldn't have been our only clearance player. It's craziness to stick to this idea that losing two senior, quality players in a list that was already scraping the barrel in that regard hasn't had ramifications.

Incidentally, saying that their inclusion equates to the 2012 side doesn't take into account the improvement of other players since then - Garland, Jones etc. Even when factoring that in, the side as a whole went backwards at a great rate of knots. 2012 was no picnic, but 2013, certainly the first half under Neeld, was an unmitigated disaster.

You also have to factor in the message that their leaving sent to the playing group. The spirit was sucked out of this lot. It would be naive to think that wasn't a contributing factor.