On potential punishments, would it be realistic to make 'deals' with the players on a shorter term ban, suggesting a lower level of fault, but imposing tougher penalties on the club? The kind of penalty I'd be looking at here is forcing each convicted player to enter a special draft to move them on from Essendon. These guys have been given a permanent enhancement to their playing ability and regardless of suspension they will return to receive the benefits. They cannot be allowed to be at the club that started all of this, and need to be dispersed throughout the competition.

Is that feasible?

A pivot to all of this...and a potential stumbling block for the players in their cause to "skip the big whip" is WADA are big on naughty people taking ownership on their position. Even if there were supposed mitigating circumstances leading to a " we didn't know type stance" WADA will want them to say.. "Guilty as charged me honour!! Please be lenient at your mercy...blah blah blah "

To date the players have shown a reluctance to admit fault. This is the crux of the matter. Unless the lads change their tune such obstinance in the face of ever mounting evidence will be their undoing.

Essendon players, crucifixion or pardon.

Truth (bit of a stretch) be known, not a lot of difference between Essendon and Armstrong...

Just to be clear, the UCI (cycling's governing body) don't and haven't banned any cycling teams. On a few occasions where there have been multiple doping cases in the same team, either race organisers refuse to allow the offending team to participate (by simply not inviting them), or the teams actually "ban" themselves under an agreement the've put in place. This is what happened at the recent Tour of Beijing, where Astana withdrew after two of their riders returned positives in lead-up races.

I know cycling gets a bad rap, most of well-earned and self-inflicted, but what has happened at Essendon in terms of refusing to play by the rules, going to court etc. etc., has NEVER occurred in cycling.

Bing...and im not trying to create an argument based upon your beloved cycling but in reality we're surely playing fine with words. The UCI arent exactly the shining light of probity ( well certainly in the past ) WADA at times have directly prevented UCI from particular involvements and the two often arent seen as seeing eye to eye. That said, I do believe the UCI is attempting to get itself on the same page.

By your own inference teams have been banned. Whether by stealth , proxy or otherwise teams havent competed because of multiple rider doping offences..

What essendon are part of I do agree is somewhat unique in the occurrences of sport.

Has anything actually happened in the last three weeks?

Has anything actually happened in the last three weeks?

other than SCN's reissued ??

Well not a lot, but the machinations that lead to players fronting the tribunal are in motion.

Players have seemingly opted not to respond to the notices and in so doing trigger the Tribunal. ASADA will take lead at this and not the AFL.

Like Lava OD...its moving , its red hot, there will be burnings but not today , nor tomorrow..!!

Has anything actually happened in the last three weeks?

just some old codger sent these desperate posts from the new world making us jealous

By your own inference teams have been banned. Whether by stealth , proxy or otherwise teams havent competed because of multiple rider doping offences..

Well, perhaps put it this way. No (entire) cycling team has been banned or suspended by/through WADA or their associated bodies, nor have WADA appealed any non-suspension of cycling teams following multiple infringements.

In reality - and I stand to be corrected - I don't know that WADA have ever been involved in the suspension of any team in any sport. There were more than 2 players suspended at Cronulla, but there's no ban.

Well, perhaps put it this way. No (entire) cycling team has been banned or suspended by/through WADA or their associated bodies, nor have WADA appealed any non-suspension of cycling teams following multiple infringements.

In reality - and I stand to be corrected - I don't know that WADA have ever been involved in the suspension of any team in any sport. There were more than 2 players suspended at Cronulla, but there's no ban.

I dont think they actually have Bing....( banned a team ) which sits at odds with their powers, or the possible outcomes of said powers.

Mandee: Essendon players, crucifixion or pardon.

I reckon "nailing" the players is appropriate . . something a little more medieval for "Bigears" though, perhaps the Gimp!

Wait a minute, how about the Beelz image Like Lava OD...its moving , its red hot, there will be burnings but not today , nor tomorrow..!!

Two front row seats please! "MMM, I love the smell of burnings in the morning"!

I dont think they actually have Bing....( banned a team ) which sits at odds with their powers, or the possible outcomes of said powers.

They may never have banned a team before but 34 guilty players from one team may test their patience

They may never have banned a team before but 34 guilty players from one team may test their patience

Will be interesting for that alone.

Has anything actually happened in the last three weeks?

The sun came up quite regularly ... and we recruited the former coach of the Bulldogs, and we completed some trades (but missed out on a big fish or two (oops! sorry!) ...

They may never have banned a team before but 34 guilty players from one team may test their patience

You would think so.

Has anything actually happened in the last three weeks?

We came close to trading the Professor and Biff to Bomberblitz but the trade was cancelled as they were consider too sane to get membership over there.

We came close to trading the Professor and Biff to Bomberblitz but the trade was cancelled as they were consider too sane to get membership over there.

Dr Dank: "I'm sorry Jobe sometimes the side effects are inconvenient . . but hey you got a brownlow!"

Essendon haven't fared well with the 2015 fixture. They have only 4 night games about 1/2 of 2014. Is the AFL planning for them to not be very competitive?

If players are suspended presumably coaches/sports science staff etc are prohibited from 'training' players at alternate premises...so can't see them being 'game fit' until mid-year. Just hope they don't 'tank' the season.

Bomber still refusing to pay his fine.

Mark Thompson set to disregard AFL fine by Friday deadline

Essendon haven't fared well with the 2015 fixture. They have only 4 night games about 1/2 of 2014. Is the AFL planning for them to not be very competitive?

If players are suspended presumably coaches/sports science staff etc are prohibited from 'training' players at alternate premises...so can't see them being 'game fit' until mid-year. Just hope they don't 'tank' the season.

Surely no club could be that brazen and stupid to tank an AFL season.

I would have thought fulfilling the fixture rather than the fixture itself is Essendon's biggest problem.

Bomber still refusing to pay his fine.Mark Thompson set to disregard AFL fine by Friday deadline

Possibly means he's done with any involvement on the AFL scene in the near future.

Bombers aren't happy with this:-

Essendon has been handed only two Friday night matches next season, and none in the opening six rounds, as Richmond emerged as the league's darling in the marquee timeslot.

.

They still get double the number of Friday night fixtures that Melbourne gets.

Could it be that the AFL figures they're not going to be able to field their strongest team in those first six weeks?

According to 3AW's Breakfast Show, the Chjip La Grand article in today's Australian claims that the Thymosin supplier in China only ever gave Charter 'the bad Thymosin' (TB4) on the understanding that it would not be used on humans.

It would have killed La Grand to write this.

I don't have a subscription to The Oz.

According to 3AW's Breakfast Show, the Chjip La Grand article in today's Australian claims that the Thymosin supplier in China only ever gave Charter 'the bad Thymosin' (TB4) on the understanding that it would not be used on humans.

It would have killed La Grand to write this.

I don't have a subscription to The Oz.

Witness Shane Charter promised no human use of peptide at Essendon ( The Australian , if yo can get to it..lol )

if not .....

From the teary keyboard of Chip.......

"THE Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority’s star witness in the case against 34 current and former Essendon footballers gave a written assurance that no peptides imported from a Chinese biochemical company would be used on people.

Vincent Xu, the global sales manager of GL Biochem, one of the world’s largest suppliers of peptides, has revealed to The Australian the details of his dealings with Shane Charter, a self-styled fitness and anti-ageing consultant at the centre of the Essendon supplements saga.

Mr Xu said that when Mr Charter came to Shanghai in Nov­ember 2011 to visit his sprawling, biochemical manufacturing plant, he claimed to be the repre­sentative of a pharmaceutical company looking to buy peptides for research work.

Mr Xu provided Mr Charter with samples of various peptides, including the banned substance Thymosin Beta 4.

When Mr Charter had subsequently placed an order to import a larger quantity of peptides, he was asked to provide a written undertaking that they were not intended for human use."

This strikes me as no more than plausible deniability for the shonky Chinese outfit..

Chip continues his sad commentary .....

"In a blow to the defence case of the AFL players, Mr Xu said the only Thymosin peptide supplied by GL Biochem to Mr Charter was Thymosin Beta 4.

“The Thymosin we synthesis (sic) and supply always refers to Thymosin Beta 4,’’ he said.

“The peptide products (such as Thymosin Beta 4) are for research use only, not for human use. We sold our peptide products to Shane Charter after he signed the non-human-use agreement.’’

I've bolded the TB4.....because it's fun to do that

"A copy of Mr Charter’s undertaking to GL Biochem — signed and dated December 8, 2011 — holds Mr Charter responsible for the “improper use’’ of peptides by himself or a third party.

“The product outsourced to your company will not be directly applied for usage on human body without appropriate requirements satisfied,’’ the undertaking reads. “And precautionary measures, if applicable, will be adopted to ensure that the product will not be used improperly by third party.’’

Mr Xu said the undertaking was required of all GL Biochem customers to prevent the proliferation of peptides on lucrative black markets around the world.

ASADA alleges that the Thymosin Beta 4 bought by Mr Charter from GL Biochem was administered to Essendon players during the 2012 AFL season by sports scientist Stephen Dank.

Mr Dank is separately accused by ASADA of administering, possessing and trafficking in a banned substance at Essendon and the Gold Coast and covering up its use.

Mr Charter co-operated with ASADA’s probe into Essendon, giving its investigators extensive testimony and documents about his dealings with GL Biochem, Mr Dank and compounding pharmacist Nima Alavi.

It is understood Mr Charter is still deciding whether to appear as a witness in the case — and subject himself to cross-examination by lawyers representing the 34 players — when the AFL convenes an anti-doping tribunal to hear and determine the charges. The long-running case could be heard before the end of this year.

Mr Charter is due before the Melbourne Magistrates Court on Monday to answer criminal charges of trafficking in and possessing steroids and possessing human growth hormone and other Schedule 4 poisons. He has previously served two years’ jail for importing a commercial quantify of pseudoephedrine, a precursor to methamphetamine.

Mr Charter met his lawyers this week to discuss whether appearing as a witness in the ASADA case would put him at risk of self-incrimination. The current criminal proceedings against him, the result of a sting operation last year by Victoria Police detectives from the anti-gangland Purana taskforce, are not related to the Essendon case.

Mr Charter declined on legal advice to respond to questions provided by The Australian.

The ASADA case is heavily reliant on Mr Charter, despite him having no direct knowledge or involvement in Essendon’s 2012 season supplements program.

According to ASADA’s summary of evidence provided to lawyers acting for the players, Thymosin Beta 4 imported by Mr Charter was compounded by Mr Alavi and provided to Mr Dank.

Mr Alavi’s evidence is that, in January 2012, he compounded a Thymosin peptide from raw mater­ials imported by Mr Charter but does not know for certain whether the substance was Thymosin Beta 4 or a permitted form of Thymosin. He told ASADA he gave Mr Dank the Thymosin and a banned peptide, Hexarelin, in 10ml, clear glass vials for testing and did not see the peptides again.

What happened next is unclear. Mr Dank has refused to be interviewed by ASADA but maintains that the Thymosin and Hexarelin compounded by Mr Alavi were neither intended for use nor used at Essendon. He told Mr Alavi the peptides were ruined by sun exposure and destroyed."

Murky murky murky ........

"ASADA must prove to comfortable satisfaction that Essendon players were administered with Thymosin Beta 4. "

You know what Chip...I think it just did !!!!!!!!!

"The case is circumstantial, ( Yes Chip.....but that's quite ok and allowable ol' chap ) constructed around four principle elements: Mr Charter’s evidence that he imported raw materials for the banned peptide; correspondence between Mr Charter, Mr Alavi and Mr Dank when Mr Dank was employed at Essendon about how to prepare and administer Thymosin Beta 4; consent forms signed by Essendon players who agreed to be injected with a form of Thymosin; and player testimony about receiving subcutan­eous injections from Mr Dank in the stomach.

Essendon insists its players were administered Thymomodulin, a permitted Thymosin peptide, and not Thymosin Beta 4.

The players vary greatly in their recollections of what they were administered."

Not looking good is it Chip ????

T

So do the Drugs get penalised by ASADA and then the AFL for drug cheating, or will it only be one? They (AFL) punished them for bad governance- once drug use has been proved do they punish them for that too, along withASADA, providing double fireworks for us?

The afl penalties two seasons ago were for bad governance. It has no bearing on any penalties for drug use. IMO this is heading to the COAIS (sports court) under the sponsorship of WADA as I don't think any Australian authority will have the courage to hand out the penalty that Hird and Essendon deserve. There are just too many vested interests, particularly economic interests. Either way, Essendon will go for a row.