Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Clintosaurus 7,958]

I'm surprised the Bummers didn't move the party to Hird's place in response. Hird didn't start the 'I'm bigger than the club' thing - Sheedy did that and it took a man with cojones - Peter Jackson - to do what was 2-3 years overdue, but Hird obviously liked what Sheedy had put in place and is using it to great effect. The Kool Aid drinkers at Tullamarine continue to lap it up. This does not happen at any other club.

[titan_uranus 25,271]

  On 14/12/2013 at 08:53, biggestred said:

I found it - AFL NOTICE OF CHARGE

68. Following that meeting, 38 players at the Club signed Patient Information/Informed Consent forms in relation to these four substances. In relation to these substances, those 38 players agreed to:

(a) one AOD-9604 injection per week for the season;

(b) one Thymosin injection once a week for six weeks and then one injection per month;

© two Colostrum daily in each training week and two colostrum post-game. The dose may vary according to training needs; and

(d) one Tribulus forte daily in each training week and one Tribulus prior to the game. The dose may vary according to training needs.

69. If the dosages the subject of the Patient Information/Informed Consent forms were administered, the playing group would receive in the order of:

(a) more than 1,500 injections of AOD-9064 and Thymosin; and

(b) more than 16,500 doses of Colostrum; and

© more than 8,000 doses of Tribulus.

How can that stuff be true and they do NOT get infraction notices and lengthy bans?

Also this from August still rings far too true - Play it straight and take the medicine

[titan_uranus 25,271]

IMO, Hird's actions throughout this process have destroyed his standing in football. His ego means he expects to return to AFL in 2015 and resume his standing as the king of the sport, but the way he's carried himself through this process has been nothing short of disgraceful (the more so if infraction notices are indeed handed out to his players).

If I were him, I'd take my lump sum payment and quit, never to return.

[biggestred 5,311]

  On 15/12/2013 at 01:06, titan_uranus said:

Because it might not be true. That's not the ASADA report you've linked to, it's the AFL's notice of charge. It's the claims the AFL made, none of which necessarily are true.

Which was based on the asada interim report...

[sue 9,281]

  On 15/12/2013 at 01:07, titan_uranus said:

If I were him, I'd take my lump sum payment and quit, never to return.

That may well be why he is happy to get the lump sum. Depending on his contracts, developments next year may mean cutting and running (with the money) is necessary.

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 15/12/2013 at 01:07, titan_uranus said:

IMO, Hird's actions throughout this process have destroyed his standing in football. His ego means he expects to return to AFL in 2015 and resume his standing as the king of the sport, but the way he's carried himself through this process has been nothing short of disgraceful (the more so if infraction notices are indeed handed out to his players).

If I were him, I'd take my lump sum payment and quit, never to return.

totally agree and if not others ought to be suggesting just that. However so many egos here. No touch with reality in all this.

[titan_uranus 25,271]

  On 15/12/2013 at 01:29, biggestred said:

Which was based on the asada interim report...

But the AFL could allege whatever it wanted to in that statement of charges, and a statement of charges is not a document of facts.

Regardless, it's been stated a few times recently that the AFL pressured ASADA into delivering the interim report so that it had something to go on when making its charges. It wanted to do it before the finals. That interim report was a flawed piece of work at best.

[Whispering_Jack 31,381]

  On 15/12/2013 at 02:09, titan_uranus said:

But the AFL could allege whatever it wanted to in that statement of charges, and a statement of charges is not a document of facts.

Regardless, it's been stated a few times recently that the AFL pressured ASADA into delivering the interim report so that it had something to go on when making its charges. It wanted to do it before the finals. That interim report was a flawed piece of work at best.

And that would be right. It was a mistake that arose out of a misguided decision to have a joint ASADA/AFL enquiry. No action should have been taken until the enquiry was concluded.

[Sir Why You Little 37,510]

  On 15/12/2013 at 04:14, Whispering_Jack said:

And that would be right. It was a mistake that arose out of a misguided decision to have a joint ASADA/AFL enquiry. No action should have been taken until the enquiry was concluded.

So then how should have the 2013 Finals series been handled without an interim decision?

Would anyone have gone to Essendon games (apart from the ferals)?

[biggestred 5,311]

Imagine if theyd won the flag

[Sir Why You Little 37,510]

  On 15/12/2013 at 05:55, biggestred said:

Imagine if theyd won the flag

Exactly. A decision of sorts had to be bought down. I do not blame the AFL for that one.

[sue 9,281]

Forget the flag. Sufficient to imagine if they knocked out any other team.

[RickyJ45 417]

  On 14/12/2013 at 05:00, Redleg said:

  On 14/12/2013 at 04:53, sue said:

I had a look at bomberblitz and the thread to do with all this has disappeared. Any good conspiracy theory as to why?

Actually their servers "crashed" earlier in the year due to ASADA interest.

Probably because Messendon heirarchy told them to shut it down as it could contain material evidence for the ASADA investigation. Some interesting posts 2012 about how great the weapon was and references to his methods and the coaching panel as the royal board who also participated. complete cult stuff and the censorship is legal oriented. They saw evidence of trauling by media for dirt and shut it down quick smart.

Likely the same thing going on now. The messendon thought police don't like anyone posting something against Hird Inc

[Whispering_Jack 31,381]

  On 15/12/2013 at 05:22, why you little said:

So then how should have the 2013 Finals series been handled without an interim decision?

Would anyone have gone to Essendon games (apart from the ferals)?

They would have played Richmond in front of 85,000 (probably 84,765 of them ferals) at the MCG. The Toigs most likely would have won.

If it wanted to, the AFL could have charged them with bringing the game into disrepute off the back of Essendon's own Switkowski Report. It did not need an interim report from ASADA/AFL.

[RickyJ45 417]

  On 14/12/2013 at 20:15, Whispering_Jack said:

Whilst reading that now redacted thread on Bomber Blitz, it struck me how united the posters were on that thread, how certain they were that Little and the Hirds were in the right and at the lack of any debate among the supporters about what had gone on at their club. Certainly, nothing I read in what amounted to close to 100 pages (I didn't read all of them) passed for analysis on the pros and cons of the situation their club found itself in like we had here on Demonland during the tanking investigation.

Of course, the Bombers are in a different situation to the Demons of last year when there was opposition among the ranks of supporters to the board and administration and the issues are completely different but I still find it staggering how single-minded their fans are in support of what their Board are doing. It's almost as if we they're living in some mediaeval kingdom where James and Tanya sit on the throne and are completely untouchable.

Big footy has more balanced opinion on the essendon sage. Bomberblitz is just another voice for hird inc like the Heraldsun but more extreme and more controlled. Every post is screened or deleted ASAP if strays from accepted dogma.

[titan_uranus 25,271]

  On 15/12/2013 at 05:22, why you little said:

So then how should have the 2013 Finals series been handled without an interim decision?

Would anyone have gone to Essendon games (apart from the ferals)?

They didn't need a half-baked ASADA report to charge them with bringing the game into disrepute.

Regardless, abandoning due process in favour of expediency is not good governance nor proper investigatory procedure.

[bing181 9,488]

  On 15/12/2013 at 07:02, Whispering_Jack said:

They would have played Richmond in front of 85,000 (probably 84,765 of them ferals) at the MCG. The Toigs most likely would have won.

If it wanted to, the AFL could have charged them with bringing the game into disrepute off the back of Essendon's own Switkowski Report. It did not need an interim report from ASADA/AFL.

Perhaps, but I'd be surprised if the Switkowsky report would have been enough of a case in and of itself to ban a senior coach for a year and remove a team from finals. I suspect that the AFL realised that they needed the weight of ASADA behind them in order to press charges - which they clearly wanted to do before the finals and Draft.

The problem here comes about because it's a team sport. If this were an individual, they would have been automatically suspended until the case were resolved.

[Pink Freud 378]

  On 15/12/2013 at 07:34, bing181 said:

Perhaps, but I'd be surprised if the Switkowsky report would have been enough of a case in and of itself to ban a senior coach for a year and remove a team from finals. I suspect that the AFL realised that they needed the weight of ASADA behind them in order to press charges - which they clearly wanted to do before the finals and Draft.

The problem here comes about because it's a team sport. If this were an individual, they would have been automatically suspended until the case were resolved.

They didn't need any reports from anyone to shaft us over tanking. Just a set up on a television programme from a disgruntled ex-player who possibly wasn't totally up front about why he left the club.

[monoccular 17,761]

  On 15/12/2013 at 05:22, why you little said:

So then how should have the 2013 Finals series been handled without an interim decision?

Would anyone have gone to Essendon games (apart from the ferals)?

  On 15/12/2013 at 05:55, biggestred said:

Imagine if theyd won the flag

  On 15/12/2013 at 06:46, sue said:

Forget the flag. Sufficient to imagine if they knocked out any other team.

  On 15/12/2013 at 06:36, why you little said:

Exactly. A decision of sorts had to be bought down. I do not blame the AFL for that one.

It would have tainted the outcome of each final in which they played, thus the whole season's showpiece.

[rjay 25,436]

  On 15/12/2013 at 07:02, Whispering_Jack said:

They would have played Richmond in front of 85,000 (probably 84,765 of them ferals) at the MCG. The Toigs most likely would have won.

If it wanted to, the AFL could have charged them with bringing the game into disrepute off the back of Essendon's own Switkowski Report. It did not need an interim report from ASADA/AFL.

I think you are right but I'm not so sure about the Tiges.

[Cards13 9,117]

Ess supporters are totally delusional! I asked a number of mates are you happy the Ess club has paid out millions this year in legal costs and to Hird and a new coach for something you don't think happened? Response "I'd rather be an Ess supporter knowing the club is paying a club legend than a Port supporter knowing they are wasting their AFL dole check on an overseas training camp."

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Essendon's plan was for doping into 2013 - Essendon supplement hopes ran to 2013

Internal Essendon communications suggest key staff hoped to continue the supplements program into 2013 and reveal a plan to inject players with an anti-dementia drug until grand final day 2012, despite previous demands for the jabs to stop.

The email correspondence gives fresh insights into the club's fascination with supplements and the involvement of key figures, including James Hird and Danny Corcoran, in a program Essendon previously tried to tie to the actions of ''rogue'' staff in Stephen Dank and Dean Robinson.

[rjay 25,436]

  On 15/12/2013 at 11:30, RobbieF said:

Essendon's plan was for doping into 2013 - Essendon supplement hopes ran to 2013

Internal Essendon communications suggest key staff hoped to continue the supplements program into 2013 and reveal a plan to inject players with an anti-dementia drug until grand final day 2012, despite previous demands for the jabs to stop.The email correspondence gives fresh insights into the club's fascination with supplements and the involvement of key figures, including James Hird and Danny Corcoran, in a program Essendon previously tried to tie to the actions of ''rogue'' staff in Stephen Dank and Dean Robinson.

These guys should never be allowed near a football club again. Hird, Corcoran, Dank and Robinson. I think Robson got off lightly by bailing out early, but he should be looked at closely by Victory.

The other shady dope dealers are a given.

Thompson and Reid I'm not as sure on but if infraction notices come then they might as well pack their bags with them.

[Sydney Pennski 309]

How come these two journalists are constantly uncovering more than ASADA and the AFL?

[Carrot Top 947]

  On 15/12/2013 at 15:53, Sydney Pennski said:

How come these two journalists are constantly uncovering more than ASADA and the AFL?

The ASADA is smart enough not to talk while they put the case together, and the AFL is stupid enough to think it'll go away if they ignore it.