Can poor kicks ever improve?

[monoccular 17,575]

xiss beat me to the punch. Todd Viney was a classic example - couldn't hit the side of a barn early in his career but became a good (though never rapier-like) kick later on.

Edited August 6, 2013 by monoccular

[DeeVoted 583]

James Mansion from the filth was one, Stewart Lowe St.Kilda was another. The latter couldnt kick over a postage stamp, both not fine examples of how to kick.

Lowe improved in the latter years of his career. Mansion was a decent ruckman

[monoccular 17,575]

James Mansion from the filth was one, Stewart Lowe St.Kilda was another. The latter couldnt kick over a postage stamp, both not fine examples of how to kick.

Lowe improved in the latter years of his career. Mansion was a decent ruckman

not that being a decent ruckman necessarily equates with being an even ordinary kick.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

Based on the above, there seems to be a view (although not unanimous) that with hard work and better decision making, players can improve their kicking. So why do so many posters say Nicholson should never play again? Surely if he can fix up his kicking he would become an excellent player given he has the other attributes we seek.

And a point about Tom McDonald. in the first couple of weeks after Neil Craig took over it seemed to me that Tom was handpassing at every opportunity whereas under Neeld he seemed to kick more often.

[DeeVoted 583]

Lets take one of own own. One Robert Flower. Perfect kick on both sides of his body. Why?

2 reasons...

1st: he was a loyal champion that played for us.

2nd: Just had natural talent to burn. But he had beautiful balance,rarely shanked a kick, in fact I cant remember him shanking one, unless he was pushed off his kick, I cant remember that either. As gifted as he was, you can bet he still practiced his kicking.

Edited August 6, 2013 by DeeVoted

[rpfc 28,779]

can they do it somewhere else though....some other club. Not OURS !!

I dont want poor kickers....ever

Quite frankly, I am not worried about how we deliver the footy, we don't get it enough.

Give me a hard running mid that gets 20 uncontested possies and farks it up 6 times than a beautiful kick who gets it in space 7 times a game and never screws up.

Kieran Jack is a rough kick. He is a superb footy player.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

Quite frankly, I am not worried about how we deliver the footy, we don't get it enough.

Give me a hard running mid that gets 20 uncontested possies and farks it up 6 times than a beautiful kick who gets it in space 7 times a game and never screws up.

Kieran Jack is a rough kick. He is a superb footy player.

So, would you play Nicholson?

[daisycutter 29,743]

Based on the above, there seems to be a view (although not unanimous) that with hard work and better decision making, players can improve their kicking. So why do so many posters say Nicholson should never play again? Surely if he can fix up his kicking he would become an excellent player given he has the other attributes we seek.

And a point about Tom McDonald. in the first couple of weeks after Neil Craig took over it seemed to me that Tom was handpassing at every opportunity whereas under Neeld he seemed to kick more often.

nicholson is one who could definitely improve with the right coaching imo

his basic kicking action is ok and he occasionally kicks quite well

he would be worth working on because he at least knows how to find the ball

[old dee 23,872]

Quite frankly, I am not worried about how we deliver the footy, we don't get it enough.

Give me a hard running mid that gets 20 uncontested possies and farks it up 6 times than a beautiful kick who gets it in space 7 times a game and never screws up.

Kieran Jack is a rough kick. He is a superb footy player.

six fark kicks can mean six goals to the opposition.

[DeeVoted 583]

Based on the above, there seems to be a view (although not unanimous) that with hard work and better decision making, players can improve their kicking. So why do so many posters say Nicholson should never play again? Surely if he can fix up his kicking he would become an excellent player given he has the other attributes we seek.

I've seen Nicho kick at training, he isnt as bad as all that that make him out to be. BUT, at training he has more time to think about where he is kicking and ball drop. The problem is, his age, as others have made mention, if bad habits creep in, its harder to eradicate. Its a mindset.

Howe was a beautiful kick, he said so himself, he couldnt work out why his accuraticy had deserted him. I watched him last pre season at training kicking for goal, he rarely missed. His balldrop looked good, body weight transfer looked ok, But most of last season, he was spraying his shots. This year he has been better. If your confidence is shot, or you just dont have that extra second to steady, the ball could go anywhere. Neaarly all of our players have the talent for kicking, composure in a game is the key. Look at Watts, rarely does he rush himself, in fact sometimes he takes too long, but he hits a target.

[jazza 1,323]

LDVC

I would play every listed player that is not likely to be in our top ten next year

I would give them every oppotunity to show the new coach their capable of holding a place on the LIST

not many clubs get this chance to intern their list

and for all those sad sacks who haven't worked it out , this crucial period after sacking coach is essential to play the LIST, let the new coach short the ones he don't want, after seeing them perform.

so YES play NICHO and give him the position he thinks suitable to maintaining a place on our list

[old dee 23,872]

nicholson is one who could definitely improve with the right coaching imo

his basic kicking action is ok and he occasionally kicks quite well

he would be worth working on because he at least knows how to find the ball

want a small wager he does not dc? Edited August 6, 2013 by old dee

[beelzebub 23,383]

Quite frankly, I am not worried about how we deliver the footy, we don't get it enough.

Give me a hard running mid that gets 20 uncontested possies and farks it up 6 times than a beautiful kick who gets it in space 7 times a game and never screws up.

Kieran Jack is a rough kick. He is a superb footy player.

kieran Jack is a rough kick

he mightnt place a few on the spot but he is a long way from being a rough kick

[rpfc 28,779]

kieran Jack is a rough kick

he mightnt place a few on the spot but he is a long way from being a rough kick

Yeah, he does screw up a few doesn't he?

The Top 150 Average Uncontested Possession gatherers in the AFL:

12 are from Coll and Fre. 11 from Ade and WB. 10 from Geel and NM. 9 from StK, Rich, and Ess. 8 are from GWS, GC, Haw, and WCE. 7 from Carl and BL. 6 from Port, and 5 from Sydney.

4 are from the last team:

Mitch Clisby 66th

Matt Jones equal 82nd

Nathan Jones equal 98th

Dean Terlich equal 140th

As Sydney are our closest rival in these numbers (albeit playing on a home ground with far less room for uncontested possies...) I will compare their entrants to our entrants in the top 150:

J McVeigh equal 13th

N Malceski equal 24th

D Hannebery equal 26th

K Jack equal 38th

T Mitchell equal 126th

This illustrates where we are at - we have a midfield that doesn't work hard enough or be bold enough to run and get the footy and the closest team to us in terms of these hard running mids has a far better class with McVeigh, Malceski, Hannebery, and Jack (all in the top 40) compared to our 4; three of which are mature age recruits in their first season of AFL.

This is where we can get better quickly. You don't need to be the greatest kick or have the greatest skills to be a hard running mid who - if he has enough friends - can drive a team back to relevance.

I expect this to be a major area for the next coach to attack and improve.

[beelzebub 23,383]

funny.. thought we were discussing whether you can or cant really improve a poor kicker .

enlightening info none the less there rpfc

[monoccular 17,575]

six fark kicks can mean six goals to the opposition.

but so can six times our guy is beaten to the ball. At lease if we have it there is some prospect that we can move forward.

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

Of course they can its just a matter of finding an example

Chris Mayne

Matt Priddis

Matt De Boer

Chris Masten

All improved and also panic less and with improved tank are less fatigued when kicking and their decision making improves

[rpfc 28,779]

funny.. thought we were discussing whether you can or cant really improve a poor kicker .

enlightening info none the less there rpfc

I guess my point is that good midfielders can be good kicks, but I would take hard working mids as a start.

Our midfield isn't bad because we miss targets, it is bad because it doesn't work hard enough and isn't bold enough.

[old dee 23,872]

but so can six times our guy is beaten to the ball. At lease if we have it there is some prospect that we can move forward.

We are now discussing degrees of crappiness.

Which is worse theplayer who cannot get tha ball or the one who gets it and delivers it to the other side.

Back to can you improve a players kicking.

In my view seldom.

just pick good kicks.

[beelzebub 23,383]

I guess my point is that good midfielders can be good kicks, but I would take hard working mids as a start.

Our midfield isn't bad because we miss targets, it is bad because it doesn't work hard enough and isn't bold enough.

i don't particularly disagree. Just see that as a separate issue to kicking ability per se

[rpfc 28,779]

i don't particularly disagree. Just see that as a separate issue to kicking ability per se

Yeah, my point is that kicking ability is a peripheral problem compared to the dearth of hard running mids.

[angrydee 842]

I did a fair bit of kick coaching at Port Mebourne in the mid '70's and then worked witha few VFL players. Kicking can be improved with hard work and a willingness to change. Constant repetition is then required. It's all about timing, ball drop, and balance.

Keiron Jack couldn't hit the side of a barn 3 years ago and improves every year.

Robbo couldn't kick straight for years.

And as said earlier Viney couldn't kick early in his career.

[angrydee 842]

Oh, and wouldn't our wonderful new academy be teaching these skills?

[DeeVoted 583]

Getting back to the OP original question.

Notice in most circumstances a natural left footer struggles to kick with their right foot. Its not as profound these days, as they are pressured, instructed, and also aware its a requirement to be able to use both sides. Even with those facts, still today some still have no right foot. To a lesser degree it can apply to right foot kicks. If taught at an early age the transformation is easlier. How good they become, comes down to practice,and a natural abiltiy to adjust.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Yeah, my point is that kicking ability is a peripheral problem compared to the dearth of hard running mids.

yep...and weve got upteen threads on that rpfc...lets keep this one about kicking huh