West Coast 2010-2011 (improvement)

[Young Dee 1,303]

Most weekends I only watch Melbourne games on TV and sometimes the Friday night game but this week I watched a few games and it really hit me that we are not just miles behind teams like the Swans and Geelong but every single team in the comp. Yeah you may say I was a bit slow ... I knew we were the worst in the comp (with maybe the exception of GWS) but we are just miles behind an Adelaide or Brisbane. You only had to watch the Adelaide vs Port game yesterday to realise that what we see every weekend with Melbourne looks nothing like all the other games. There was fast gameplay, pinpoint accuracy, aggression and most obvious - spread. Why is it every time we come out of the backline there is either no one there or no lose players? The Adeliade vs Port game was just so great to watch with both teams having the ability to stream out of defense and without stalling just quickly link up through the midfield with pin point kicks (without going backwards or sideways).

This all got me thinking yes we are miles behind every other club, yes we should be on the bottom of the ladder, yes our midfield sucks... but just what chance do we have of improving next year? Then I begun thinking of West Coast - finished last on the ladder in 2010 and 4th in 2011. Now I don't know how they did it (was it injuries that caused 2010?) but I think that when a team is low on the ladder for a while (like us) their tails will begin to wag at the scent of victory/success. I think this was evident in this weekends game where the TV commentators where saying our bench was like a graveyard where as the GWS bench was whistling with enthusiasm and all cheering each other on etc. (difference is they smell success in the near future but we don't).

I can't help but feel/hope that come the end of the year we will have at least two good established mids to add to our midfield (+ a new mid coach - Ling?). I believe the midfield is the reason for our poor performances and think we have a strong back-line and forward-line that are just waiting for the midfield to step up.

Now I know we are not going to see West Coast like improvement but what do people think - with trades for 2 mids that can step straight into the midfield and make a difference while still being young enough to be part of our future? Where would that leave us. And add to that a senior player - leader/mentor from Free Agency (Dal Santo/Cooney).

How did West Coast do it?

Do we have any hope of improving considerably next year?..... (we can't go backwards at least)

I think with good inclusions to our midfield we could have our tails wagging next year and that could just make the world of difference. Being a footballer myself I know the game is 50% psychological and right now the team is rock bottom with confidence and have nothing to play for (finals).

[old dee 24,028]

They had a lot of injuries to their good senior players in 2010

The majority returned in 2011.

Hence big improvement.

The MFC has no Good senior players injured or otherwise.

[Young Dee 1,303]

They had a lot of injuries to their good senior players in 2010

The majority returned in 2011.

Hence big improvement.

The MFC has no Good senior players injured or otherwise.

Well if we bring in a few good mids and add Mitch Clark, Hogan, Jamar a fit and improved Evans, Viney Trengove etc (I think it has a similar effect)

It is our crap midfield mixed with the our crap psychological state that is to blame for our performances. (if we fix the first then the second may come along with it)

[beelzebub 23,390]

YD, whilst we all live in hope, and I certainly dont want to dispell yours it might need just a tad more than that to get competitive, let alone win.

But we all live in hope

[old dee 24,028]

Well if we bring in a few good mids and add Mitch Clark, Hogan, Jamar a fit and improved Evans, Viney Trengove etc (I think it has a similar effect)

It is our crap midfield mixed with the our crap psychological state that is to blame for our performances. (if we fix the first then the second may come along with it)

Sorry to be so negative YD

but from the above I have the view that Clark may never play again, Jamar is past his best. Spenser and Gawn offer more, Evans is injury prone and won't make it, What you see with Trengove is as good as it gets.

Hogan looks good, and Viney is too young to be to be the great white hope in 2014.

Not a lot from that lot in 2014 IMO

[Young Dee 1,303]

YD, whilst we all live in hope, and I certainly dont want to dispell yours it might need just a tad more than that to get competitive, let alone win.

But we all live in hope

I won't say I am not optimistic but I never really put a label on just how much we may improve.

At this stage winning 5-7 games next year would be a great achievement and a significant improvement

[old dee 24,028]

I won't say I am not optimistic but I never really put a label on just how much we may improve.

At this stage winning 5-7 games next year would be a great achievement and a significant improvement

I would be happy with four

[jnrmac 20,304]

They have a chemist as a coach....

[beelzebub 23,390]

Cant help but be of a similar train of thought to OD..I'll believe Clark when I see him him take to the field....and STAY there.

Jamar..well id trade him to Giants to be honest ...with a ticket home for afters..lol

I cant count on anymore from JT till I see him run out..and i mean RUN out a preseason. Grimes. Probably the most likely to return to form...but then wtfk !!!

Evans is a good VFL footballer

Hogan will shine but we cant pin it all on yet another great whiite hope.

We need 3 good mids...and GOOD ones...not nqrs

[old dee 24,028]

Cant help but be of a similar train of thought to OD..I'll believe Clark when I see him him take to the field....and STAY there.

Jamar..well id trade him to Giants to be honest ...with a ticket home for afters..lol

I cant count on anymore from JT till I see him run out..and i mean RUN out a preseason. Grimes. Probably the most likely to return to form...but then wtfk !!!

Evans is a good VFL footballer

Hogan will shine but we cant pin it all on yet another great whiite hope.

We need 3 good mids...and GOOD ones...not nqrs

YEP

[dee-luded 2,959]

Most weekends I only watch Melbourne games on TV and sometimes the Friday night game but this week I watched a few games and it really hit me that we are not just miles behind teams like the Swans and Geelong but every single team in the comp. Yeah you may say I was a bit slow ... I knew we were the worst in the comp (with maybe the exception of GWS) but we are just miles behind an Adelaide or Brisbane. You only had to watch the Adelaide vs Port game yesterday to realise that what we see every weekend with Melbourne looks nothing like all the other games. There was fast gameplay, pinpoint accuracy, aggression and most obvious - spread. Why is it every time we come out of the backline there is either no one there or no lose players? The Adeliade vs Port game was just so great to watch with both teams having the ability to stream out of defense and without stalling just quickly link up through the midfield with pin point kicks (without going backwards or sideways).

This all got me thinking yes we are miles behind every other club, yes we should be on the bottom of the ladder, yes our midfield sucks... but just what chance do we have of improving next year? Then I begun thinking of West Coast - finished last on the ladder in 2010 and 4th in 2011. Now I don't know how they did it (was it injuries that caused 2010?) but I think that when a team is low on the ladder for a while (like us) their tails will begin to wag at the scent of victory/success. I think this was evident in this weekends game where the TV commentators where saying our bench was like a graveyard where as the GWS bench was whistling with enthusiasm and all cheering each other on etc. (difference is they smell success in the near future but we don't).

I can't help but feel/hope that come the end of the year we will have at least two good established mids to add to our midfield (+ a new mid coach - Ling?). I believe the midfield is the reason for our poor performances and think we have a strong back-line and forward-line that are just waiting for the midfield to step up.

Now I know we are not going to see West Coast like improvement but what do people think - with trades for 2 mids that can step straight into the midfield and make a difference while still being young enough to be part of our future? Where would that leave us. And add to that a senior player - leader/mentor from Free Agency (Dal Santo/Cooney).

How did West Coast do it?

Do we have any hope of improving considerably next year?..... (we can't go backwards at least)

I think with good inclusions to our midfield we could have our tails wagging next year and that could just make the world of difference. Being a footballer myself I know the game is 50% psychological and right now the team is rock bottom with confidence and have nothing to play for (finals).

they were tanking before that, in a more subtle clever way, (not chasing pick 1). & hiding talent for their pleasure.

then they off loaded some older players, & started to bring thru some of their stockpiled talent, which were being developed.

now they are better, but still young & inconsistent.

they recruited FAR smarter than we did, & their development, & their competative culture is superior to what ours came from...

here's a 2009 WC list to look at during that weak time of theirs > http://www.aflrules.com.au/afl-teams/west-coast-eagles/2009-west-coast-eagles-team/

[dee-luded 2,959]

Do we have any hope of improving considerably next year?..... (we can't go backwards at least)

I think with good inclusions to our midfield we could have our tails wagging next year and that could just make the world of difference. Being a footballer myself I know the game is 50% psychological and right now the team is rock bottom with confidence and have nothing to play for (finals).

absolutely we Do,,,, but Not without fixing our failing lazy culture first.. this is point A B & C on the list of importance.

when that culture is fixed, we will start to have our players develop to their best...

see > http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php/2010

[old dee 24,028]

absolutely we Do,,,, but Not without fixing our failing lazy culture first.. this is point A B & C on the list of importance.

when that culture is fixed, we will start to have our players develop to their best...

see > http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php/2010

When you are effectively last of course there is a chance of improvement.

The hard bit is achieving it.

With our list and the possible changes we can make in 2014

I would think four wins will be a big improvement.

[dee-luded 2,959]

When you are effectively last of course there is a chance of improvement.

The hard bit is achieving it.

With our list and the possible changes we can make in 2014

I would think four wins will be a big improvement.

anything is a big improvement on where we've been. not only the last 4 years.

but since the mid 60's...

gotta ram it home, 'Checker & Percy' brought sets of Fangs & plenty of Tenacity & Fight to the wilting fuscias...

prior to 'Checker', we played in a much smaller competition & still only managed 2 Premierships Cups... he obviously rebuilt our side & started a run of Silverware & a Hard reputation to boot.

when the silvertails got rid of Norm Smith, they also got rid of the Demons... & they starved us of good facilities with which to develop, & to be competative.

[praha 11,253]

Eagles having many a Premiership player on their list would have helped.

[titan_uranus 25,211]

If you wanted to make this kind of comparison, you should have gone with Port Adelaide of 2012. A much similar situation than West Coast of 2010, who were crippled with injuries.

Port of 2012 was a rabble. They had no soul (like us), a terrible coach who they were forced to sack/push out (like us), no sponsors (about to be like us), poor crowds (like us). They got a new president (like us), new CEO (like us), new coach (like us). The comparisons are there, at least more than West Coast of 2010.

[Young Dee 1,303]

If you wanted to make this kind of comparison, you should have gone with Port Adelaide of 2012. A much similar situation than West Coast of 2010, who were crippled with injuries.

Port of 2012 was a rabble. They had no soul (like us), a terrible coach who they were forced to sack/push out (like us), no sponsors (about to be like us), poor crowds (like us). They got a new president (like us), new CEO (like us), new coach (like us). The comparisons are there, at least more than West Coast of 2010.

Agreed - I didn't really think of that

[old dee 24,028]

If you wanted to make this kind of comparison, you should have gone with Port Adelaide of 2012. A much similar situation than West Coast of 2010, who were crippled with injuries.

Port of 2012 was a rabble. They had no soul (like us), a terrible coach who they were forced to sack/push out (like us), no sponsors (about to be like us), poor crowds (like us). They got a new president (like us), new CEO (like us), new coach (like us). The comparisons are there, at least more than West Coast of 2010.

But a way better midfield and some decent older players.

[Ted Lasso 19,566]

gold coast ia probably a good example of what we should aim for in 2014

[titan_uranus 25,211]

But a way better midfield and some decent older players.

The decent older players is definitely a difference between us and them.

As for the 'better midfield', yes, clearly right now their midfield is lightyears ahead of ours. But Ebert, Boak, Hartlett, Wingard, Cornes and Cassisi were all at Port last year, when their midfield was pretty rotten.

Wingard's improvement into his second year has been phenomenal. We can only hope that Viney/Toumpas/M Jones are able to have good pre-seasons, learn from our new coach, get some confidence back, just like the Port midfielders did, and show some improvement. If we get half the improvement in our midfield that Port did in theirs, we'll be in a far better place.

[old dee 24,028]

The decent older players is definitely a difference between us and them.

As for the 'better midfield', yes, clearly right now their midfield is lightyears ahead of ours. But Ebert, Boak, Hartlett, Wingard, Cornes and Cassisi were all at Port last year, when their midfield was pretty rotten.

Wingard's improvement into his second year has been phenomenal. We can only hope that Viney/Toumpas/M Jones are able to have good pre-seasons, learn from our new coach, get some confidence back, just like the Port midfielders did, and show some improvement. If we get half the improvement in our midfield that Port did in theirs, we'll be in a far better place.

The problem with our midfield is t u that we do not have the likes Ebert, Boak, Cornes and Cassisi to help the kids.

We are trying to do it with almost exclusively kids in their first year or two

Put Viney and Toumpas in Port next year and they would in my opinion be as good as Wingard.

But alas at the MFC they will have try and carry all the load with little help.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,110]

WC tanked that year. As has been said, not quite as blatantly as we did, but it was there. The next year, having topped up their stockpile of talented young players, they brought back half a dozen premiership players into the side and suddenly they were dominating the midfield again.

The big difference here is that they had half a dozen premiership players sitting in the wings being nursed through minor niggles and maintaining premiership standards within the playing group. Not only do we not have those players waiting to come back, we don't have the coaches to set those standards either. We won't be having a meteoric rise like they did.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

How did West Coast do it, well... If they can make the finals, they try to, if they can't, then they pull the pin and use the picks system.

West Coast and Collingwood shown everyone how to take advantage of the PP system the smart way.

Melbourne, Carlton, Hawthorn, St Kilda and Richmond fell in love with the system too much and it affected their culture.

[Pennant St Dee 13,414]

In 2011 Dean Cox, Daniel Kerr, Darren Glass, Matt Priddis, Beau Watters, Kennedy and Embley were all fit again. Luke Shuey, Scott Selwood and Masten stepped up in their 3rd years(or thereabouts). Mark Nicoski got back to 2005 form and recent recruit for that season Darling made big impact by being the 4th tall in a very good forward line.

If we get the right coach and improve it will be something similar to Brisbane or 2012

[Je Roos Salem 661]

We're no good because we've nudged James McDonald and Brad Green out the door prematurely (and our treatment to other senior players in the past probably could've been better) in order to give way to young players who are just no good/and show no leadership. Cornes and Cassisi are both 30+ for Port and are helping their revival. Giansiracusa, Murphy, Boyd and Cross are all 30+ and when they're gone in a couple of years it'll be perfect timing for the younger Dogs to lead the club. We just haven't had the experience to help our young group and, to mend this, Neeld recruited Rodan and Byrnes (two fringe players in their final year at their clubs) to try and fill the void which has been a complete failure and there's been no improvement in leadership and neither has played well enough. If James McDonald could play for GWS in 2012, he could definitely play for us then (oh and captain too) and maybe even this year. The Roos didn't nudge Brent Harvey out in 2011 so he could finish on a high and make way for a younger midfield. I'm not denying that Green's 2012 was disappointing (consider that he was stripped of the captaincy too), but we wouldn't be as bad if we had him playing this year. Trying a bit harder to retain senior players can go a long way