Casey and recruitment holding back player development.

[rpfc 28,433]

I'm not sure it's about sharing a load but at times it looks as though preference is given to Couch, Magner and Roden to take these midfield positions when maybe it would be better for the club to develop some of the younger players. Now there could be a number of reasons for this, some to do with injury and development and others to do with just winning games of football.

Personally, form the outside looking in I think a few of our younger players would benefit from more midfield time.

This isn't Sautner sitting in the square - there are 12 mid positions in any high level of football and plenty of places for these kids to get a chance and shine.

[rjay 24,928]

This isn't Sautner sitting in the square - there are 12 mid positions in any high level of football and plenty of places for these kids to get a chance and shine.

No, never said it was. I would like to see Taggert spend more time in the centre square though. I know Neeld was pushing him as a forward, I think he had it wrong.

[drdrake 3,163]

No, never said it was. I would like to see Taggert spend more time in the centre square though. I know Neeld was pushing him as a forward, I think he had it wrong.

Did we have it wrong or Taggert coming back from a long term injury easing back through the HFF and building his running capacity.

[rjay 24,928]

Did we have it wrong or Taggert coming back from a long term injury easing back through the HFF and building his running capacity.

I understand the injury argument and this may well be right, I would hope it is but someone had posted that Neeld saw him as a forward. Of course this may be off the mark.

He seems to be up and running now so hopefully will get a bit more time in the middle. I think he has a lot of ability and we are crying out for players who can play mid and who are good kicks, he ticks both these boxes.

[old dee 23,791]

I understand the injury argument and this may well be right, I would hope it is but someone had posted that Neeld saw him as a forward. Of course this may be off the mark.

He seems to be up and running now so hopefully will get a bit more time in the middle. I think he has a lot of ability and we are crying out for players who can play mid and who are good kicks, he ticks both these boxes.

I think you are close the mark there rjay.

He had a horrible year injury wise last year, we should be viewing this year as his first.

He was recruited as a mid from memory lets give the kid another year minimum.

It is not as though he is taking the place of some other mid fielder.

[Key Deefender 143]

I was going to start a similar thread, although more about giving our fringe and possible delist players a chance to show their wares in positions other than those in which they appear to have been pigeon-holed to play. However given the third world midfield we currently employ, this should be the area to zero in on.

My prime example of turning a career around, although he is no star yet, is Dean Terlich. Pigeon holed as a medium forward at Norwood and in real danger of returning to bush footy, a mid year chat with coach Nathan Bassett, had him put down back where he thrived, ending up with a BOG in their winning Grand Final and a tilt at the big time where he could finish top 5 in our B & F in his first year.

The point is, if players are struggling and just pigeon-holed into one area of the ground, then very little will change for them to display their talents elsewhere and possibly save their careers.

Which leads me mainly to James Strauss. He seems to have been pigeon-holed as a back flanker and sure, a running half back who can deliver the ball is gold. However, I'm sure our marking forwards would relish the prospect of a James Strauss running out of the middle hitting them lace out on the chest. He is not slow, is physically equipped to handle the midfield and I believe he now needs a free reign to demonstrate any attacking skillset he might possess. He has never had the opportunity to display whether or not he can. We have others who can fill the half back role and is time to try him in a role where we are crying out for auditions.

He reminds me physically of Adelaide's and once Melbourne's Scott Thompson and has a similar gait. Thompson has always been a midfielder, Strauss always a defender - are they that dissimilar? I understand one's a star and one's struggling to establish himself, but to look at them, there's not that much difference. Strauss has polish and has always been touted as an elite kick and we have seen some evidence. Let him show whether he can actually get the ball in the middle and hit up leading targets. The delivery of ball into our forward line is bereft of both quality and quanitity. I don't get the feeling he is having any lingering effects from his broken leg and I think engine's are better built in the heat of battle than on the training track, particularly when languishing at the foot of the ladder and there is little else to be gained. And no, I'm not advocating tanking!

He - and others, should learn on the job what it aerobically takes to get to contests and to affect second and third efforts. In that light I believe Blease and Tapscott, Evans when fit and even Jetta as a tagger, should be thrown in there as well. This instead of languishing in the safe haven of a forward line where the ball has been known to enter the 50 metre arc only twice in one quarter and is no place to develop anything other than pneumonia!

I would be a little more reluctant to put the youngsters into the middle, as their bodies may not stand the rigours early on and the strong sides can afford to blood these guys for extended periods in their twos. If we can put them in as flankers a la Clisby, forward or back, to enable them to acclimatise to the AFL , then fine, however the above named who have already endured several pre-seasons should be primed to be trialled there on an extended basis to see whether or not they can cut it. If they are then gone they are gone, but at least no one will die wondering.

We should at least try to salvage something from this wreck of a season and if a career can be saved like Dean Terlich's was, then surely this could be a valuable exercise in player development - rather than player stagnation which benefits neither club nor player.

As to whether or not Casey is holding back our player development who knows, however a winning culture is surely better than what the seniors are currently serving up and I hope as many listed Melbourne players as possible get to play finals at Casey which hasn’t happened previously. This bizarre philosophy has done nothing to foster a winning culture, enhance player development or nurture the relationship with our feeder club.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Key Deefender

[mauriesy 7,296]

I'm not sure it's about sharing a load but at times it looks as though preference is given to Couch, Magner and Roden to take these midfield positions when maybe it would be better for the club to develop some of the younger players.

I assume Casey are in the game to win it, not provide a training drill for Melbourne.

[rjay 24,928]

I assume Casey are in the game to win it, not provide a training drill for Melbourne.

Then the question in the thread comes into play and the follow up question, is Melbourne better off with a standalone VFL team?

[DeeSpencer 25,710]

I'm a big Strauss fan but he isn't a midfielder or anything like Scott Thompson. He's a half back flanker, that's where you utilise the best kicks. He's just got to work on his tackling, continue improving his defensive work (which isn't that bad) and get better at getting easy possessions by getting loose and getting the ball. He's very close to making it as an AFL player and when he does he'll be good. But we are at risk of losing him (either to another club or the scrap heap) if he can't find that 5%

[DeeSpencer 25,710]

Then the question in the thread comes into play and the follow up question, is Melbourne better off with a standalone VFL team?

If we could afford it we would be. But seeing as though we can't we'd really be better off with a Casey that works together with us. We've got that this year but either their senior coach isn't listening or our own football department haven't worked out that Magner, Couch and Rodan have spent too much time in the centre square at Casey. Either way if we don't have 2 out of those 3 on the list in the first place we solve a lot of that problem.

[Key Deefender 143]

I'm a big Strauss fan but he isn't a midfielder or anything like Scott Thompson. He's a half back flanker, that's where you utilise the best kicks. He's just got to work on his tackling, continue improving his defensive work (which isn't that bad) and get better at getting easy possessions by getting loose and getting the ball. He's very close to making it as an AFL player and when he does he'll be good. But we are at risk of losing him (either to another club or the scrap heap) if he can't find that 5%

You may or may not be right about him not being a midfielder. However he has been with Casey most of the year and has still not nailed down the half back role in the seniors. My theory at this late stage of the season anyway is to try something different - free him up and yet enable his defensive mindset to still help him and the team in the midfield and around stoppages. And while I agree that the best kicks are often sweeping out of half back, they can be just as effective in the midfield where a precise kick into the forward line will usually allow the recipient a scoring opportunity - and that is surely what it's all about.

[rjay 24,928]

You may or may not be right about him not being a midfielder. However he has been with Casey most of the year and has still not nailed down the half back role in the seniors. My theory at this late stage of the season anyway is to try something different - free him up and yet enable his defensive mindset to still help him and the team in the midfield and around stoppages. And while I agree that the best kicks are often sweeping out of half back, they can be just as effective in the midfield where a precise kick into the forward line will usually allow the recipient a scoring opportunity - and that is surely what it's all about.

Always worth a try.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

I don't get it. "Top 4 clubs have approx 14 midfielders". But somehow Casey only has 2, that aren't giving everyone else a look-in?

Comparing Sydney, the Cats and the Hawks to Casey is just plain stupidity. The fact is the VFL don't have the playing talent to play like AFL teams. They cannot run 14 players thru their midfield. Casey can't even rotate Taggert, Tapscot, trynan, etc etc thru their midfield.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

What a load of garbage, have a good look at the Casey team, basically every available player is in the Casey firsts, I think a couple of weeks ago we had 15+ MFC players in the Casey team. No disrespect to Casey, but the Casey FC is the Melbourne VFL team with Casey Top up players. Player Development hasn't been hindered by our relationship with Casey, look at the best players last week Hogan, Taggert, Strauss, Spencer and Tynan/Barry also had very good games. There are no players that aren't getting games because Casey players, this is the difference between Casey and Sandy, our young players spent more time in the Sandy seconds because the Sandy players were played.

It's not that players arnt getting a game Dr, it's the positions they are playing in is the point. How does anyone expect Taggert to be Midfielder when he has very minimal time in the midfield at Casey. Casey is developing flankers. Taggert was recruited as a big strong tall midfielder and hasn't had much chance in he middle for nearly two years.

Why is it he club can't produce midfielders. Part of the problem has to be that Casey isnt paying our young recruits in midfield roles.

[angrydee 842]

What a load of garbage, have a good look at the Casey team, basically every available player is in the Casey firsts, I think a couple of weeks ago we had 15+ MFC players in the Casey team. No disrespect to Casey, but the Casey FC is the Melbourne VFL team with Casey Top up players.

Player Development hasn't been hindered by our relationship with Casey, look at the best players last week Hogan, Taggert, Strauss, Spencer and Tynan/Barry also had very good games.

There are no players that aren't getting games because Casey players, this is the difference between Casey and Sandy, our young players spent more time in the Sandy seconds because the Sandy players were played.

Took the letters off my keyboard.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Be careful when using Geelong an example for player development and draft picks - their amount of father son players has given them a huge advantage almost making them an exemption to the rule in terms of being able to capitalise on the draft pools.

I couldn't care less who's drop in their fathers balls they have came from. Every junior needs development. Geelong dictate that a Caddy plays midfield coz that's what they want him to do when selected in he seniors. That's good strategic development.

Abblett, Hawkins etc do not become good players by the quality of their dads sperm

[Demonsterative 3,020]

I assume Casey are in the game to win it, not provide a training drill for Melbourne.

This is exactly my point. Cases play players to get into finals. The MFC should be aspiring the same. Magner, Couch, Rodan and Mc Kenzie are good VFL players. None of these players will assist the MFC to win more than 4 games a year. History backs this up.

Taggert, Strauss and Tapscott have the ability and physicality to play the midfield too. Tapscott is in danger of being delisted (Strauss too) without been given the chance to perform in the middle. Being flankers holds back their development

Collingwood Essendon (prior to the year) and Hawthorn don't require to have their VFL teams in finals to develop players. Sydney play their reserves team in a much weaker league and they don't a require finals to develop their players either.

It's a misnomer to think playing finals at VFL is good for player development. Giving players more responsibility in the VFL develops players

You call it a training drill Maurie. I call it development and being smart

[Demonsterative 3,020]

I'm a big Strauss fan but he isn't a midfielder or anything like Scott Thompson. He's a half back flanker, that's where you utilise the best kicks. He's just got to work on his tackling, continue improving his defensive work (which isn't that bad) and get better at getting easy possessions by getting loose and getting the ball. He's very close to making it as an AFL player and when he does he'll be good. But we are at risk of losing him (either to another club or the scrap heap) if he can't find that 5%

Yet the top teams have flankers who can rotate thru the middle. Its modern day footy, Strauss need more strings to his bow than a back flanker/pocket

[old dee 23,791]

Yet the top teams have flankers who can rotate thru the middle. Its modern day footy, Strauss need more strings to his bow than a back flanker/pocket

Wrong Pick?

[drdrake 3,163]

It's not that players arnt getting a game Dr, it's the positions they are playing in is the point. How does anyone expect Taggert to be Midfielder when he has very minimal time in the midfield at Casey. Casey is developing flankers. Taggert was recruited as a big strong tall midfielder and hasn't had much chance in he middle for nearly two years.

Why is it he club can't produce midfielders. Part of the problem has to be that Casey isnt paying our young recruits in midfield roles.

Really, Taggert has had every chance to play in the midfield, his body has let him down, it has nothing to do with Casey.

We haven't drafted any good midfielders, that is the problem, Gent and Best are about 21/22 years old, the fact is both these guys are better midfielders than what we have at Casey. Are these two blokes slowing the development of MFC players, no way in fact the players we draft should be better players than these 2, the fact is beside we don't have any players capable of playing in our midfield. Last year wew drafted Toumpas(playing for MFC), Viney(playing for MFC), Barry at Casey, M Jones(playing for MFC) and Terlich(playing for MFC). Year before we had Taggert and Tynon who both have stuggled to get their bodies right. Tappy, Jetta don't have the tank to run through the midfield.

Who else do we have that can Casey is holding back?

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Wrong Pick?

Sorry OD, even by your own admittance, the years have tainted your optimism. Therefore I find it difficult into ascertain whether your just plain negative or have thought your opinion thru

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Really, Taggert has had every chance to play in the midfield, his body has let him down, it has nothing to do with Casey. We haven't drafted any good midfielders, that is the problem, Gent and Best are about 21/22 years old, the fact is both these guys are better midfielders than what we have at Casey. Are these two blokes slowing the development of MFC players, no way in fact the players we draft should be better players than these 2, the fact is beside we don't have any players capable of playing in our midfield. Last year wew drafted Toumpas(playing for MFC), Viney(playing for MFC), Barry at Casey, M Jones(playing for MFC) and Terlich(playing for MFC). Year before we had Taggert and Tynon who both have stuggled to get their bodies right. Tappy, Jetta don't have the tank to run through the midfield. Who else do we have that can Casey is holding back?

Partly disagree with Taggert Dr, he has strung together many games this year as a HFF. From my reckoning he has had little time rotating thru the middle. Strauss is another, as is Tapscott. Tynan is another who played some games on a HBF in the TAC (although he was forced to play CHB at TAC level due to lack of talls for Gippsland)

Why play players in lower leagues (VFL) on flanks? Footy experts say the HFF can be the hardest position to play to have an impact on the game. Of course this is unless your a Rioli.

At this stage I would rather a Kent playing for Casey rotating they the midfield than playing HFF at AFL level. He is only getting a few possessions

The reality Couch, Magner, Rodan and McKenzie (some may disagree with Jordie) are not the clubs future. In order to have a future you need to work towards one. Play the players I mentioned in the roles I mentioned. If they fail, move them on.

[monoccular 17,429]

Took the letters off my keyboard.

QWERTY right there.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I couldn't care less who's drop in their fathers balls they have came from. Every junior needs development. Geelong dictate that a Caddy plays midfield coz that's what they want him to do when selected in he seniors. That's good strategic development.

Abblett, Hawkins etc do not become good players by the quality of their dads sperm

Missed my point; Geelong managed to secure good draft prospects with later round picks (ie, Garry Ablett Jnr was a 3rd pick at #40) because of the father son rule. Meaning they were able to use their round 1 and 2 picks on other good draft prospects.

Was just wanting to say watch out when refering to draft picks, development and Geelong.

[old dee 23,791]

Sorry OD, even by your own admittance, the years have tainted your optimism. Therefore I find it difficult into ascertain whether your just plain negative or have thought your opinion thru

I was asking you for your opinion?