WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - DANIEL CROSS

[Deemotivated 550]

Its a free hit.... get it done.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Having said that, Angus Monfries looks very good for Port tonight.

[DemonOX 8,791]

Its a bit of a worry that we are looking at older players that have been delisted by their current clubs as this is what happened last trade season.

Some of us keep saying in Roos we trust, I think we said this about Neeld and possibly Bailey too.

The difference this time is that Roos knows what he is doing and this does give me confidence.

Edited September 13, 2013 by DemonOX

[Wormburner 674]

Its a bit of a worry that we are looking at older players that have been delisted by their current clubs as this is what happened last trade season.

Some of us keep saying in Roos we trust, I think we said this about Neeld and possibly Bailey too.

The difference this time is that Roos knows what he is doing and this does give me confidence.

I agree, but as others have mentioned above - if we can get him for nothing then it's a win win for all parties. Edited September 13, 2013 by Jman

[stuie 7,374]

Fair enough mate. Admittedly I don't know much about Cross, but after DRod and Byrnes I'm VERY nervous about picking up any discarded player 29+ in age. Most player managers probably know we have room in the SC and that quality OOC players aged 23-26 will avoid us, so we'll have to spend our money somewhere. Concerned that we may be seen as the veterans superannuation top up club.

I know what you're saying, but Cross is very different to DRod who was never a great player and was more and more injury prone with age, and Byrnes who was a small forward in front of one of the all time great midfields, so may have been overrated.

[torpedo 33]

I haven't looked at his age, but Stuart Maxfield moved from Richmind to Sydney at an advanced age and is one of the senior players credited to instilling the bloods culture.

Roos is trying to do the same thing with Cross...and why not. He's a durable 30 year old who still has petrol in the tank, a renowned hard trainer and he'll cost us nothing.

Maxfield went to Sydney at 23. That is exactly the age bracket we should be targeting.

I am not saying Cross may not be serviceable but simply that previous experiences suggest it will more than likely be a bust.

It is fanciful to suggest it is a given that he will walk in and continue to perform at the same level as he did at the Doggies over the last 2-3 years, where he was coming off his prime and surrounded by a mature & serviceable midfield.

[stuie 7,374]

Maxfield went to Sydney at 23. That is exactly the age bracket we should be targeting.

I am not saying Cross may not be serviceable but simply that previous experiences suggest it will more than likely be a bust.

It is fanciful to suggest it is a given that he will walk in and continue to perform at the same level as he did at the Doggies over the last 2-3 years, where he was coming off his prime and surrounded by a mature & serviceable midfield.

And you know what, some high draft picks don't turn into good players, should we give up on drafting? Some coaches don't do as well at other clubs, should we sack Roos? Or MAYBE you should judge a player on his merits instead of comparing him to other players. All we can do is go by what we know, and what we know is Cross has averaged over 22 touches for the last 9 years, he's super fit, is not injury plagued, oh and he had 32 touches against the reigning premiers about a month ago.

The reason we're looking at him is because we DON'T have a mature and serviceable midfield.

[Philthy 284]

For all the doubters, a few years back Hawthorn picked up a overweight port Adelaide discard in Stuart Dew, he was one the Main reasons the hawks beat the cats in the 08 final.

[stuie 7,374]

Just for the record, from the Dees only Nathan Jones was ahead of Daniel Cross this season for supercoach scores.

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

Maxfield went to Sydney at 23. That is exactly the age bracket we should be targeting.

I am not saying Cross may not be serviceable but simply that previous experiences suggest it will more than likely be a bust.

It is fanciful to suggest it is a given that he will walk in and continue to perform at the same level as he did at the Doggies over the last 2-3 years, where he was coming off his prime and surrounded by a mature & serviceable midfield.

We aren't saying Cross is the ONLY midfielder we should pickup

we might well pick up a Swallow, or Sloane, an adams to go with them, Anthony miles should be on the radar, but Cross is a godsend in terms of all we need to effect a cultural change, he will play round 1 2014, and he'll have an impact, we will be a better side for having him, his off field influence over pre season and the 2014 season will be huge,

we need someone to show the young kids what to do, and what it takes to be successful at AFL level as midfielders.

[torpedo 33]

And you know what, some high draft picks don't turn into good players, should we give up on drafting? Some coaches don't do as well at other clubs, should we sack Roos? Or MAYBE you should judge a player on his merits instead of comparing him to other players. All we can do is go by what we know, and what we know is Cross has averaged over 22 touches for the last 9 years, he's super fit, is not injury plagued, oh and he had 32 touches against the reigning premiers about a month ago.

The reason we're looking at him is because we DON'T have a mature and serviceable midfield.

The draft pick example is ridiculous. Daniel Cross is not a draft pick, he is 30+ midfielder at the end of his career. The only relevant comparison is against other 30+ midfielders at the end of their career. What examples are there of players of this type moving to bottom placed clubs and having a positive impact? Its not a trick question. If its such a sure bet, there should be plenty of examples, who are they? I cannot recall any.

For all the doubters, a few years back Hawthorn picked up a overweight port Adelaide discard in Stuart Dew, he was one the Main reasons the hawks beat the cats in the 08 final.

Stuart Dew was a 28 year old fat half forward with a freakish left boot playing as a burst player in a Premiership team. Daniel Cross will be a 31 year old no frills inside mid surrounded by kids. Apples and oranges.

Just for the record, from the Dees only Nathan Jones was ahead of Daniel Cross this season for supercoach scores.

From irrelevant stats to Supercoach scores? Seriously?

Cross is a godsend in terms of all we need to effect a cultural change, he will play round 1 2014, and he'll have an impact, we will be a better side for having him, his off field influence over pre season and the 2014 season will be huge,

we need someone to show the young kids what to do, and what it takes to be successful at AFL level as midfielders.

A 'godsend'? Or he could come over, contribute no more than a player half his age, detoriate rapidly and end up in the ressies?

All I am saying is he is as high risk as any other pick, if you suggest otherwise you have your head in the clouds.

Edited September 13, 2013 by torpedo

[stuie 7,374]

The draft pick example is ridiculous. Daniel Cross is not a draft pick, he is 30+ midfielder at the end of his career. The only relevant comparison is against other 30+ midfielders at the end of their career. What examples are there of players of this type moving to bottom placed clubs and having a positive impact? Its not a trick question. If its such a sure bet, there should be plenty of examples, who are they? I cannot recall any.

You totally missed the point, and frankly I'm not surprised.

The point is this is Daniel Cross. Not David Rodan. Not all 30 year olds are the same, just as not all 18 year olds are the same.

Use your brain and look at his performances this year and the circumstances which saw him leave the Bulldogs.

There is NO relevant comparison, because they were all different players.

[stuie 7,374]

From irrelevant stats to Supercoach scores? Seriously?

Irrelevant stats? Pointing out that Cross had as many disposals per game as our best and fairest winner is irrelevant? Somehow i think if his stats were poor you would not be using this argument.

[BAMF 4,351]

The draft pick example is ridiculous. Daniel Cross is not a draft pick, he is 30+ midfielder at the end of his career. The only relevant comparison is against other 30+ midfielders at the end of their career. What examples are there of players of this type moving to bottom placed clubs and having a positive impact? Its not a trick question. If its such a sure bet, there should be plenty of examples, who are they? I cannot recall any.

Stuart Dew was a 28 year old fat half forward with a freakish left boot playing as a burst player in a Premiership team. Daniel Cross will be a 31 year old no frills inside mid surrounded by kids. Apples and oranges.

From irrelevant stats to Supercoach scores? Seriously?

A 'godsend'? Or he could come over, contribute no more than a player half his age, detoriate rapidly and end up in the ressies?

All I am saying is he is as high risk as any other pick, if you suggest otherwise you have your head in the clouds.

Ben Cousins was 30 when he went to Richmond. Played 2 years before a consistent hamstring problem stopped him from continuing. His hamstring problem started when playing for west coast.

Cross is a great guy and does not have injury concerns or a drug problem.

[Clark_Kent 315]

Ben Cousins was 30 when he went to Richmond. Played 2 years before a consistent hamstring problem stopped him from continuing. His hamstring problem started when playing for west coast.

Cross is a great guy and does not have injury concerns or a drug problem.

Yes and the Richmond players credit Cousins for fast tracking their development. Hopefully Cross can do something similar, without the drug problem.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Under normal circumstances I'd say no. The likes of North, Richmond, Saints, etc, rightly wouldn't be interested. But in Melbourne's case it makes sense. The guy would immediately be in our best 3 midfielders, his work ethic and training standards are legendary at the Dogs, and in this professional age a guy that is fit as Cross could quite conceivably play another 3 years.

It's not for most clubs, but I reckon it works for Melbourne.

[Redleg 40,905]

The guy is highly thought of on and off the ground. He is courageous. He is still playing ok. 30 is ok for a year or two if he can hold his form.

We have a dearth of experience with Flash, Rodan, Joel Mac and maybe Sylvia all gone this year. Jamar may also be traded. Rivers and Beamer left last year.

I am warming to Cross. He will cost nothing and won't want a lot of money. I would delist Byrnes and pay him out or make him Assistant playing Coach at Casey and replace him with Cross.

We will have plenty of other spots for trades and draftees.

[Nasher 33,615]

I would delist Byrnes and pay him out or make him Assistant playing Coach at Casey and replace him with Cross.

Redleg, I don't understand why you're so anti-Byrnes. I get that he didn't have a great year, but he wasn't any worse than a number of other contracted players and the team on the whole was an absolute trainwreck, yet you single him out repeatedly. The idea of paying him out is just silly; there are more than enough uncontracted potatoes for us to give the boot without flushing money down the toilet by paying out a contracted player, who could still prove to be useful under a competent coach.

I'm not pro-Byrnes by any means, I just can't see a justification for your extreme far-anti position.

[Clark_Kent 315]

Redleg, I don't understand why you're so anti-Byrnes. I get that he didn't have a great year, but he wasn't any worse than a number of other contracted players and the team on the whole was an absolute trainwreck, yet you single him out repeatedly. The idea of paying him out is just silly; there are more than enough uncontracted potatoes for us to give the boot without flushing money down the toilet by paying out a contracted player, who could still prove to be useful under a competent coach.

I'm not pro-Byrnes by any means, I just can't see a justification for your extreme far-anti position.

I want to also say that people had a unrealistic view on Shannon Byrnes. He has never been a match winning midfielder who averages 30 touches a game. He is a small forward who can be quite dangerous on his day and kicked a few bags for us. He has always been inconsistent so why would we expect any different here? I had no problem with his season he played some good games some bad and some in between while hopefully providing off field leadership and bringing a good work ethic to the club.

[Redleg 40,905]

Redleg, I don't understand why you're so anti-Byrnes. I get that he didn't have a great year, but he wasn't any worse than a number of other contracted players and the team on the whole was an absolute trainwreck, yet you single him out repeatedly. The idea of paying him out is just silly; there are more than enough uncontracted potatoes for us to give the boot without flushing money down the toilet by paying out a contracted player, who could still prove to be useful under a competent coach.

I'm not pro-Byrnes by any means, I just can't see a justification for your extreme far-anti position.

Well I suppose my anti Byrnes stance comes from the following:

He turns the ball over more than any other Dees player, both by hand and foot ( I think that can be confirmed by stats) His effectiveness in a few games was between 35-38% the worst in the AFL.

For a small man he is amazingly slow, as was was evidenced the few times I saw him half heartedly chase an opponent, often not quick themselves, who simply ran away from him.

He pathetic efforts at marking, when as is often the case with our players, delivery wasn't spot on, he put up one hand pretending to try and get the ball.

His poor shooting for goal, often from close in and when it mattered.

His decision making, handballing to a player one metre away with 3 players around him or doing the same by foot, often.

His habit of hanging out of the pack and waiting for the easy possession.

The simple fact that he stopped players like Kent and others gaining experience when we were not a finals side and gaining experience should have been a high priority. ( I know that is not his fault as he doesn't select the side ).

His inability to apply forward pressure.

The fact that I thought he offered nothing on the ground to the side.

There are more reasons, but you get my drift.

I don't hate the guy of course, I just don't want him playing for us.

Surely we could have played Taggert for example or even Magner and found out a bit more about them which would have been more useful going forward.

It is not an age thing either as I see value in Cross for a couple of years.

BTW I thought Rodan was miles ahead of Byrnes and was sorry he injured himself as he at least provided some clearances and a bit of x factor.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Redleg

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

The draft pick example is ridiculous. Daniel Cross is not a draft pick, he is 30+ midfielder at the end of his career. The only relevant comparison is against other 30+ midfielders at the end of their career. What examples are there of players of this type moving to bottom placed clubs and having a positive impact? Its not a trick question. If its such a sure bet, there should be plenty of examples, who are they? I cannot recall any.

Stuart Dew was a 28 year old fat half forward with a freakish left boot playing as a burst player in a Premiership team. Daniel Cross will be a 31 year old no frills inside mid surrounded by kids. Apples and oranges.

From irrelevant stats to Supercoach scores? Seriously?

A 'godsend'? Or he could come over, contribute no more than a player half his age, detoriate rapidly and end up in the ressies?

All I am saying is he is as high risk as any other pick, if you suggest otherwise you have your head in the clouds.

there is absolutely no risk to him mate, he come free as a free agent

if he gets injured or form is off he will still have a great impact off the field, we haven't had a bloke with his experience since junior really so i'll be very annoyed if we don't offer him a deal

[Fat Tony 5,228]

Byrnes was a mistake in two parts. Firstly, he reduced our compensation for Rivers and Moloney. Secondly, he was signed on two years.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Well I suppose my anti Byrnes stance comes from the following:

He turns the ball over more than any other Dees player, both by hand and foot ( I think that can be confirmed by stats) His effectiveness in a few games was between 35-38% the worst in the AFL.

For a small man he is amazingly slow, as was was evidenced the few times I saw him half heartedly chase an opponent, often not quick themselves, who simply ran away from him.

He pathetic efforts at marking, when as is often the case with our players, delivery wasn't spot on, he put up one hand pretending to try and get the ball.

His poor shooting for goal, often from close in and when it mattered.

His decision making, handballing to a player one metre away with 3 players around him or doing the same by foot, often.

His habit of hanging out of the pack and waiting for the easy possession.

The simple fact that he stopped players like Kent and others gaining experience when we were not a finals side and gaining experience should have been a high priority. ( I know that is not his fault as he doesn't select the side ).

His inability to apply forward pressure.

The fact that I thought he offered nothing on the ground to the side.

There are more reasons, but you get my drift.

I don't hate the guy of course, I just don't want him playing for us.

Surely we could have played Taggert for example or even Magner and found out a bit more about them which would have been more useful going forward.

It is not an age thing either as I see value in Cross for a couple of years.

BTW I thought Rodan was miles ahead of Byrnes and was sorry he injured himself as he at least provided some clearances and a bit of x factor.

Other than that he's great ?

[whatwhat say what 22,747]

the biggest mistake with byrnes was taking him as a free agent, rather than waiting for him to become a delisted free agent.

it grossly effected our compensation for losing two genuine free agents, rather than for a bloke who was about to get dropped from his then-club's list regardless.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Irrelevant stats? Pointing out that Cross had as many disposals per game as our best and fairest winner is irrelevant? Somehow i think if his stats were poor you would not be using this argument.

It is irrelevant you goose. Another pointless stat in isolation.

If you'd bother looking at the games he played in and how much more of the ball the bulldogs would have had control of during those games, you'd come to understand why they had similar numbers this year.

If you swapped the players, I'm sure Jones would have averaged closer to 25-30 disposals a game. Because the Bulldogs had a better year than us. More of the ball. You see?

It's quite simple Stuie. That stat is absolutely without a doubt, pointless.

Edited September 14, 2013 by stevethemanjordan