I don't see why.

Are you referring to Crameri? He's a FF. He'd never come here, with Clark/Dawes/Hogan, and the Dogs clearly can make him their sole FF.

Moreover, the Dogs showed some great form in the second half of 2013, so it's not like player(s) are picking a different basket-case over us.

If players start demanding to go to St Kilda over Melbourne, then maybe it'll be more serious.

Not to mention Dawes coming to us last year, in preference to the bulldogs...

I think we are too impatient for trading results on here. It is VERY early in the process, and you never buy at first sight. All the business negotiations I have ever been involved in both here and offshore, you always start with an ambit claim to which your opposition fein outrage at the unreasonableness of your demands. It is part of the tactics. What would concern me most is if we did a deal so soon in the period. It would mean we had learnt nothing from the last 5 years.

I’m very attracted to the suggestion on here that we have been “shopping” pick 2 around “with unreasonable demands for which no one is biting” (no doubt a rumour planted in the Press by opposition clubs to try and get us to lessen our demands). What this process does do though is to get other clubs to reveal to us who is really on the market, so we can then go back and target them later on with lower draft picks (and maybe players). Smart negotiating and miles ahead of our tactics of the past.

I have always felt that the “pick 2 is on the table” was a bit of a ruse on our behalf – there are simply too many elite midfielders in the draft who would give us a champion for many years to come (except if we were silly enough to draft another Scully, but I think Roos is too smart for that – his record with the Swans in that regard was impeccable. He will very carefully check out “character". If we had have done that with Scully, even in a very limited form, we would have seen him and his father to be the complete tossers they are).

No, I am very buoyed by what I am observing happening these last couple of weeks. We are employing far more sophisticated tactics than previously, and I am sure we will land so very tasty morsels before this is over. We just need to allow our negotiating team to go through the process. Really good deals take a long time to complete, and are often done at the "11th hour".

We just need to be patient and enjoy watching this pan out. Hopefully we will take a few other clubs for a ride rather than the opposite, which is what has happened in the past.

I’m really enjoying watching this unfold......

Edited October 8, 201311 yr by Dees2014

I think we are too impatient for trading results on here. It is VERY early in the process, and you never buy at first sight. All the business negotiations I have ever been involved in both here and offshore, you always start with an ambit claim to which your opposition fein outrage at the unreasonableness of your demands. It is part of the tactics. What would concern me most is if we did a deal so soon in the period. It would mean we had learnt nothing from the last 5 years.

I’m very attracted to the suggestion on here that we have been “shopping” pick 2 around “with unreasonable demands for which no one is biting” (no doubt a rumour planted in the Press by opposition clubs to try and get us to lessen our demands). What this process does do though is to get other clubs to reveal to us who is really on the market, so we can then go back and target them later on with lower draft picks (and maybe players). Smart negotiating and miles ahead of our tactics of the past.

I have always felt that the “pick 2 is on the table” was a bit of a ruse on our behalf – there are simply too many elite midfielders in the draft who would give us a champion for many years to come (except if we were silly enough to draft another Scully, but I think Roos is too smart for that – his record with the Swans in that regard was impeccable. He will very carefully check out “character – if we had have done that with Scully – even in a very limited form – we would have seen he and his father to be complete tossers).

No, I am very buoyed by what I am observing happening these last couple of weeks. We are employing far more sophisticated tactics than previously, and I am sure we will land so very tasty morsels before this is over. We just need to allow our negotiating team to go through the process. Really good deals take a long time to complete, and are often done at the "11th hour".

We just need to be patient and enjoy watching this pan out. Hopefully we will take a few other clubs for a ride rather than the opposite, which is what has happened in the past.

I’m really enjoying watching this unfold......

I think your on the right track. It is early on and it diesvtske time to suss outbthecresl oppeetunities. Cheers!

I think we are too impatient for trading results on here. It is VERY early in the process, and you never buy at first sight. All the business negotiations I have ever been involved in both here and offshore, you always start with an ambit claim to which your opposition fein outrage at the unreasonableness of your demands. It is part of the tactics. What would concern me most is if we did a deal so soon in the period. It would mean we had learnt nothing from the last 5 years.

I’m very attracted to the suggestion on here that we have been “shopping” pick 2 around “with unreasonable demands for which no one is biting” (no doubt a rumour planted in the Press by opposition clubs to try and get us to lessen our demands). What this process does do though is to get other clubs to reveal to us who is really on the market, so we can then go back and target them later on with lower draft picks (and maybe players). Smart negotiating and miles ahead of our tactics of the past.

I have always felt that the “pick 2 is on the table” was a bit of a ruse on our behalf – there are simply too many elite midfielders in the draft who would give us a champion for many years to come (except if we were silly enough to draft another Scully, but I think Roos is too smart for that – his record with the Swans in that regard was impeccable. He will very carefully check out “character – if we had have done that with Scully – even in a very limited form – we would have seen he and his father to be complete tossers).

No, I am very buoyed by what I am observing happening these last couple of weeks. We are employing far more sophisticated tactics than previously, and I am sure we will land so very tasty morsels before this is over. We just need to allow our negotiating team to go through the process. Really good deals take a long time to complete, and are often done at the "11th hour".

We just need to be patient and enjoy watching this pan out. Hopefully we will take a few other clubs for a ride rather than the opposite, which is what has happened in the past.

I’m really enjoying watching this unfold......

Just because we are shopping it around doesn't mean we are giving it away. We have a BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) of 2nd pick, who is likely to be a gun. If we trade for less, then we truly are mugs. I agree, this is the first step in a bigger game. Good luck to the team in getting some quality outcomes....

2014...the Tier 1 trades have to fall first...then it all cascades from there.

its a bit cat and mouse currently as well. I tend to agree as do others that there was definitely a "info gathering ' aspect to the #2 being put up. i have no doubt for the RIGHT trade it might happen but it does give you entry into the inner sanctums of some clubs thinking, an avenue that might not be there if we're only peddling the little picks.

Not to mention Dawes coming to us last year, in preference to the bulldogs...

Ironically that was the Neeld influence.

This is the time of year the recruiters etc earn their dolleros. We watch and wait

I think your on the right track. It is early on and it diesvtske time to suss outbthecresl oppeetunities. Cheers!

Did you post that from your phone by any chance?

I too am quite content to sit and wait while the chips fall for the moment. I have no doubt that we will see some movement in the next month, and to be honest I would be perfectly happy to hang on to pick 2, so if another club wants it they would need to be offering a pretty damn good trade. Also, as has been mentioned before, the lack of rumours and leaks from the club is a very refreshing change. We are playing this with our cards face down on the table and a hell of a poker face right now and waiting to see if someone blinks. It seems that the entire football department and board are pulling their weight right now and keeping their mouths closed.

2014...the Tier 1 trades have to fall first...then it all cascades from there.

its a bit cat and mouse currently as well. I tend to agree as do others that there was definitely a "info gathering ' aspect to the #2 being put up. i have no doubt for the RIGHT trade it might happen but it does give you entry into the inner sanctums of some clubs thinking, an avenue that might not be there if we're only peddling the little picks.

Exactly. Now the buddy deal is through the Pies might make headway with Jessie White (while Sydney would've been occupied previously) but they wont want to do too much until Taylor Adams is sorted and then they can think about Karnezis and they have to get picks to get all of those deals done. And they factor in Heath Shaw

Same with cats where Adams would be priority number 1 but they would also have a hand in other things.

That's just some examples of why these deals take so long. Our pick 2 is our number 1 priority I'd say but for other clubs its a consideration but they have to work out a bunch of other things first. And no club wants to link players for trade and then not trade them. We saw what happened to Rischitelli and Daniel Bradshaw at Brisbane when they were mentioned in the Fev deal then ended up quitting the club.

One club we've heard about is Sydney having some discussions. But they had to get Buddy all cleared and now have to trade Mumford, White and maybe Everitt to even get under the salary cap. So we sit and wait.

Edited October 8, 201311 yr by the master

Well Buddy's been given the thumbs up so we might now see a bit more movement by some......might

Well Buddy's been given the thumbs up so we might now see a bit more movement by some......might

How long until the AFL backflip and declare that in the future long-term deals of this sort will not be allowed?

How long until the AFL backflip and declare that in the future long-term deals of this sort will not be allowed?

Yes, you can just bet another " oops the horse has already bolted but...." clause is about to be inserted into the Code according to Vlad. And so it should really. its quite absurd to have contracts beyond whats reasonably expected as the life of that players ability. if not knocked on its head it will just open the door to further abuse.

Edited October 8, 201311 yr by Belzebubsy

How long until the AFL backflip and declare that in the future long-term deals of this sort will not be allowed?

Probably right up until the point where MFC attempt it.

Not fussed at all about the current state of play, and as some have already mentioned, not even sure that this whole "trade pick 2" isn't a ruse to prise out other options.

The chance of ANY club releasing the kind of player that Pick 2 warrants are close to zero - it would be like us releasing Frawley or Garland. Or to put it another way, I'll be surprised if there are any/many trades involving that level of player that go through.

But certainly not going to start whipping myself if (oh the misery) we end up taking Pick 2 in the draft as opposed to trading it. Win win.

Once upon a time a club wouldn't even contemplate trading pick 2 and if they did there'd be a queue a mile long if they did. It seems to have lost some of its gravitas and Melbourne's recent record of drafting probably hasn't helped, but I hold the view that you should still at worst get an A-grader and hopefully a star.

I suspect we'll trade the pick for a couple of good ordinary footballers with Roos making us more attractive as well as some decent coin, but I'd be just as happy to go to the draft and pick Kelly or Aish and let them develop alongside Hogan, Viney, Kent and Toumpas.

lol @ people panikcing that we havent done any trades yet

Unbelievable

Its day 2 of a 3 week trade period, and no other team has done any big trades either

Settle the [censored] down

lol @ people panikcing that we havent done any trades yet

Unbelievable

Its day 2 of a 3 week trade period, and no other team has done any big trades either

Settle the [censored] down

You're a particularly objectionable fellow.

First week is just foreplay. Hawks are given 3 days re: Buddy (AFL) approved offer to meet the offer. I'm not expecting a great deal to be done until at least the start of the second week. (3 week period).

Only one trade on day one, and the Blues fell over themselves to accept the Richmond offer of their 2nd pick for Hampson. Blue boys were literally KOTD with that one.

The clubs will still be getting around to everyone and holding some cards back. The entree's barely finished.

lol @ people panikcing that we havent done any trades yet

Unbelievable

Its day 2 of a 3 week trade period, and no other team has done any big trades either

Settle the [censored] down

Irony

Probably right up until the point where MFC attempt it.

You are not suggesting that we would be investigated for doing it after 10 previous efforts by other clubs were ignored, are you?

Once upon a time a club wouldn't even contemplate trading pick 2 and if they did there'd be a queue a mile long if they did. It seems to have lost some of its gravitas and Melbourne's recent record of drafting probably hasn't helped, but I hold the view that you should still at worst get an A-grader and hopefully a star.

I suspect we'll trade the pick for a couple of good ordinary footballers with Roos making us more attractive as well as some decent coin, but I'd be just as happy to go to the draft and pick Kelly or Aish and let them develop alongside Hogan, Viney, Kent and Toumpas.

So would I.

To add some spice though I would start leaking to the media that we are falling in love with Aish.

If he is really the 1 in 1000 player, how could you let him go?

lol @ people panikcing that we havent done any trades yet

Unbelievable

Its day 2 of a 3 week trade period, and no other team has done any big trades either

Settle the [censored] down

Werent you whinging and screaming the other day because all rumours posted on here are all [censored] and we shouldnt take notice of them??

Yes, you can just bet another " oops the horse has already bolted but...." clause is about to be inserted into the Code according to Vlad. And so it should really. its quite absurd to have contracts beyond whats reasonably expected as the life of that players ability. if not knocked on its head it will just open the door to further abuse.

I really think this sort of persecution complex does not get us anywhere, but sadly is so prevalent on this site. The trigger for me is the word "Vlad" (referring to the CEO of the AFL), which has all the connotations of racism and anti-elitism.

Face it folks, the MFC has only itself to blame for its incompetence in the last five years. Before that, it was more than competitive.

A Demitriou led board of the AFL has been a the forefront of rescuing the MFC from its own incompetence. We should rejoice we have such professional administrators at the AFL. We would be on our way to NZ without them.

Sadly so many MFC supporters prefer to think of themselves as persecuted, rather than how we can get ourselves out of this mess. I've noticed also, so often those who complain about persecution, are also the ones who are most critical of the AFL Head.

The AFL have been responsible for putting Peter Jackson into the MFC, indirectly recruiting Roos, and supplying the funds to rescue us from oblivion. Admittedly, they also knew without the MFC they would not have a viable competition, but they could have sent us to Hobart and we could not have done a blind thing about it.

Be careful what you wish for.......

I really think this sort of persecution complex does not get us anywhere, but sadly is so prevalent on this site. The trigger for me is the word "Vlad" (referring to the CEO of the AFL), which has all the connotations of racism and anti-elitism.

Face it folks, the MFC has only itself to blame for its incompetence in the last five years. Before that, it was more than competitive.

A Demitriou led board of the AFL has been a the forefront of rescuing the MFC from its own incompetence. We should rejoice we have such professional administrators at the AFL. We would be on our way to NZ without them.

Sadly so many MFC supporters prefer to think of themselves as persecuted, rather than how we can get ourselves out of this mess. I've noticed also, so often those who complain about persecution, are also the ones who are most critical of the AFL Head.

The AFL have been responsible for putting Peter Jackson into the MFC, indirectly recruiting Roos, and supplying the funds to rescue us from oblivion. Admittedly, they also knew without the MFC they would not have a viable competition, but they could have sent us to Hobart and we could not have done a blind thing about it.

Be careful what you wish for.......

pfft.... What eves...

I really think this sort of persecution complex does not get us anywhere, but sadly is so prevalent on this site. The trigger for me is the word "Vlad" (referring to the CEO of the AFL), which has all the connotations of racism and anti-elitism.

Face it folks, the MFC has only itself to blame for its incompetence in the last five years. Before that, it was more than competitive.

A Demitriou led board of the AFL has been a the forefront of rescuing the MFC from its own incompetence. We should rejoice we have such professional administrators at the AFL. We would be on our way to NZ without them.

Sadly so many MFC supporters prefer to think of themselves as persecuted, rather than how we can get ourselves out of this mess. I've noticed also, so often those who complain about persecution, are also the ones who are most critical of the AFL Head.

The AFL have been responsible for putting Peter Jackson into the MFC, indirectly recruiting Roos, and supplying the funds to rescue us from oblivion. Admittedly, they also knew without the MFC they would not have a viable competition, but they could have sent us to Hobart and we could not have done a blind thing about it.

Be careful what you wish for.......

Did you actually read what was written before you decided on your little tirade ? Just curious as you havent seemed to refer to it, just Vlad. Which by the way is our little pet name..Its Vlad the Impaler. Hardly racist id have said. If you think your Darling Demetriou is without fault, good for you.

Dont get too carried away with what you consider magnaminous generosity as its only done in a self serving manner in order to prop up his own interests. We simply are the recipient of the day.

The AFL actually CANT send us anywhere.

I really think this sort of persecution complex does not get us anywhere, but sadly is so prevalent on this site. The trigger for me is the word "Vlad" (referring to the CEO of the AFL), which has all the connotations of racism and anti-elitism.

Face it folks, the MFC has only itself to blame for its incompetence in the last five years. Before that, it was more than competitive.

A Demitriou led board of the AFL has been a the forefront of rescuing the MFC from its own incompetence. We should rejoice we have such professional administrators at the AFL. We would be on our way to NZ without them.

Sadly so many MFC supporters prefer to think of themselves as persecuted, rather than how we can get ourselves out of this mess. I've noticed also, so often those who complain about persecution, are also the ones who are most critical of the AFL Head.

The AFL have been responsible for putting Peter Jackson into the MFC, indirectly recruiting Roos, and supplying the funds to rescue us from oblivion. Admittedly, they also knew without the MFC they would not have a viable competition, but they could have sent us to Hobart and we could not have done a blind thing about it.

Be careful what you wish for.......

Actually, the last time the AFL re-wrote the rules after allowing something like this was when Geelong were looking at putting together a third-party package to offer Ablett on top of his playing wage. The AFL declared that although they had approved the multiple deals Carlton had made in the same manner, from this point forward they were going to ban them. This call was made pretty much for the sole purpose of preventing Geelong from keeping Ablett away from GC because they needed the star power to move up there. This really has nothing to do with us, but is a classic example of the AFL pushing their agenda before any considerations of fairness or an even competition. The same applies to the Franklin move. The AFL need Sydney to be a strong marketable side if they are to maintain their toehold in NSW, therefore they will get more room to bend the rules than other clubs might. Ideally they would have liked him to go to GWS, but anywhere in Sydney is a good result for them.