In defence of Collingwood supporters...

[Pates 9,680]

Unfortunately I think it's a double edged sword in that regard... if you ignore it, it will not go away, and if you name and shame it, it becomes a divisive issue... but when it comes down to it, nothing will change if it is swept under the carpet.

That's exactly the problem as I see it. I fear that we're doomed to go a round in circles only making tiny steps of progress. I've got kiwi family and kiwi friends, and they are very quick to declare white Australia as racist (a generalisation for which I got extremely annoyed about), but even they have cultural and racial issues between the Anglo and Maori communities. It is ultimately very difficult to see a time in which words such as Ape won't have racial connotations because it will always depend on the victims feelings, regardless of the intentions of the person saying it.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

And here I was thinking that the term "ranga" was initially a reference to the colour of someones pubic hair, based on the colour of that of the orangutan. That you could find racist overtones in that beggars belief.

its a term describing their hair colour as similar to a oranguatan. so you can call a red headed person an oranguatan but you cant call a black person an ape. double standards. i choose not to use either of those terms.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Re double standards the difference is that one is refering to hair and one is refering to skin colour.

Clearly two completely different issues.

Primarily because people with red hair have not been discriminated to the extent of black people.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

red haired people are their own race. and of course htey havent been discriminated against as much as blacks BUT it is still discrimintation and the common thme to come out of the weekend is that if it offends someone then its not acceptable. referring to people as an oranguatan does offend some red haired people. i know that for a fact. most definitely double standards. people dont get it. they just think racism is white on black.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

i lived in SE Asia for many years. the most racism ive ever encountered was between two groups that from teh untrained eye you would say were genetically the same. but they were 2 very different cultures and the disgust each community had for the other was unbelievable. yet Australia is accused of being a racist society. yes we have some poor examples but nothing in the 21st century that comes close to what is experienced all oer the world...... and without a white person for miles! its not white on black. its a group of people discriminated against becuase of their genetics/cultural background.

[Strapping Young Lad 227]

Cancel the SEASON!!!!!! We are all going to HELL!!!! Never before have I HEARD such a thing! ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! rabble, rabble rabble.

What a mountain out of a mole hill. Sit in the crowd and listen to the specators. Go to the pub and hear the patrons.... We all say stupid [censored] and are guilty of it, there are no exceptions. I have lived in cities and remote communities in Australia and racism in my opinion, is problamatic for every race colour and creed. You want to fix the problem wipe out the human race. Until then keep calm and carry on.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Strapping Young Lad

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

Cancel the SEASON!!!!!! We are all going to HELL!!!! Never before have I HEARD such a thing! ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! rabble, rabble rabble.

What a mountain out of a mole hill. Sit in the crowd and listen to the specators. Go to the pub and hear the patrons.... We all say stupid [censored] and are guilty of it, there are no exceptions. I have lived in cities and remote communities in Australia and racism in my opinion, is problamatic for every race colour and creed. You want to fix the problem wipe out the human race. Until then keep calm and carry on.

Shallow!

[Soidee 1,496]

Cancel the SEASON!!!!!! We are all going to HELL!!!! Never before have I HEARD such a thing! ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! rabble, rabble rabble.

What a mountain out of a mole hill. Sit in the crowd and listen to the specators. Go to the pub and hear the patrons.... We all say stupid [censored] and are guilty of it, there are no exceptions. I have lived in cities and remote communities in Australia and racism in my opinion, is problamatic for every race colour and creed. You want to fix the problem wipe out the human race. Until then keep calm and carry on.

Predictable

[Biffen 12,949]

Does this mean we cant abuse redheads anymore?

Can we phase this in slowly.

Like smoking in restaurants?

[hardtack 10,871]

Someone once accused me of looking like Salvador Dali... I accused them of surrealism.

[Strapping Young Lad 227]

Shallow how? Predictable? What?? My comments are an observation on all of the social media, published media and key board warriors. It is not the end of the world when a young person stuffs up.... I have many friends who are from all walks on this earth and I respect them. I just feel that most reactions to this should come with a disclaimer. The only trouble is opinions are like belly buttons, every one has one including me.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Strapping Young Lad

[Strapping Young Lad 227]

Someone once accused me of looking like Salvador Dali... I accused them of surrealism.

HA! I am more of a Pablo Piccaso man!!! Cubism is intolerable.

[Green Demon 822]

Although I am white as can be, I can sympathise as to where Goodes is coming from. Having a very Irish last name, I copped a fair bit of grief as a kid during the troubles in Ireland. Drove me nuts lol My family have lived in Australia for a number of generations and the main line actually came from Spain...long story lol. The point being a number of pretty offensive terms were thrown my way for reasons I really didn't understand. The term ape and monkey have long been used to denigrate people as sub human. Many racist tracts have used brow ridges, hue of skin etc and thus are closer to apes, to try to prove that black people are inferior. Education is key.

The media handled the issue poorly. If the kid used the term in ignorance, they should have just moved on from the girl and explained why the term was offensive in that context. Hanging her out to dry served no purpose and only clouded the education opportunity.

I am Irish born. I have lived in Australia for over 20 years. When I first came here, I copped a lot of the old "The Irish are stupid" rubbish. Irish jokes and derogatory statements about the Irish, were common Aussie TV. expected anti-Irish racism from the British but not from Australians.

The most recent incident I can remember was about 6 months ago in country Victoria. A man, about 60, on learning I was Irish, had no problem in telling me that Irish people are not that smart. I told him that he was showing his age.

On the footy front, Big Jim Stynes, through his actions, proved the racist stereotypes were wrong. He was a hero to the Irish. The opposition supporters used to hurl racist abuse at our Jim. I remember an incident at a game against Essendon. Some Bombers supporters were shouting racist abuse at Jimmy. I stood up for my countryman and my nation. There was almost a physical altercation.

I think a lot of progress has been made since then. I applaud Adam Goodes for standing up for himself and his people.

[Biffen 12,949]

I am Irish born. I have lived in Australia for over 20 years. When I first came here, I copped a lot of the old "The Irish are stupid" rubbish. Irish jokes and derogatory statements about the Irish, were common Aussie TV. expected anti-Irish racism from the British but not from Australians.

The most recent incident I can remember was about 6 months ago in country Victoria. A man, about 60, on learning I was Irish, had no problem in telling me that Irish people are not that smart. I told him that he was showing his age.

On the footy front, Big Jim Stynes, through his actions, proved the racist stereotypes were wrong. He was a hero to the Irish. The opposition supporters used to hurl racist abuse at our Jim. I remember an incident at a game against Essendon. Some Bombers supporters were shouting racist abuse at Jimmy. I stood up for my countryman and my nation. There was almost a physical altercation.

I think a lot of progress has been made since then. I applaud Adam Goodes for standing up for himself and his people.

I'm half Irish.

and the Irish are not that smart .

Passionate ,lyrical,poetic and romantic yes.

Smarts is not really an Irish trait .

Least not us transplanted Oirish,

[skills32 229]

I would love to take you to a Tasmanian Aboriginal Protest rally as I have passed by one and been called "white trash" !! Had more than a dozen witnesses.. Didn't bother me much, but it seems we must accept that calling a Tasmanian Aboriginal "Black Trash" would most likely have us arrested.. Goes both ways ???? Not over here .. I have never and will never be a Racist.. My Partner is not originally from this country by the way....

There is no such thing as a Tasmanian aborigine. Matt Gabbit ate most of them and the rest just died.

Must have been stirrers from the mainland.

Edited May 31, 2013 by skills32

[skills32 229]

Calling a red headed person a "Ranga" is racist actually. red headed genes come from the celtic people who originated in the british isles and the north of spain. So many people seem to think of racism as a white against black issue. racism exists in every society and against every type of person. White people in parts of teh world are vilified terribly and black on black racism has netted disatrous results in Africa.

People are happy to call red headed people rangas and tell them they dont have souls etc etc but gee dont dare give a dark skinned person a name.

i dont condone vilifying aboriginals or blacks but the double standards in this whole argument are ludicrous

I know what you are talking about. I lived in PNG for a while and the whites hated the blacks and the blacks hated the yellow who had to please themselves.

I'll bet the Chinese used to dream about giving green people a hard time.

Edited May 31, 2013 by skills32

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

i lived in SE Asia for many years. the most racism ive ever encountered was between two groups that from teh untrained eye you would say were genetically the same. but they were 2 very different cultures and the disgust each community had for the other was unbelievable. yet Australia is accused of being a racist society. yes we have some poor examples but nothing in the 21st century that comes close to what is experienced all oer the world...... and without a white person for miles! its not white on black. its a group of people discriminated against becuase of their genetics/cultural background.

Guess what. When it doesn't take place between groups of different races it's not called racism, it's called ethnocentrism. There are rivalries in many countries and regions based (usually) on the proximity of territories/different ways of doing things/beliefs and so on. Some of these are friendly, some aren't; some are as oppressive as racism and others aren't. And if you haven't lived all over the world, it might be a good idea to avoid sweeping generalisations about 'what is experienced there'.

Find some other way to excuse Australian racism. Better still, accept that whether it's as bad as some other places it still needs to be worked on.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Dr John Dee

[Chook 15,023]

Guess what. When it doesn't take place between groups of different races it's not called racism, it's called ethnocentrism. There are rivalries in many countries and regions based (usually) on the proximity of territories/different ways of doing things/beliefs and so on. Some of these are friendly, some aren't; some are as oppressive as racism and others aren't. And if you haven't lived all over the world, it might be a good idea to avoid sweeping generalisations about 'what is experienced there'.

Find some other way to excuse Australian racism. Better still, accept that whether it's as bad as some other places it still needs to be worked on.

How do we define "race" anyway? Surely there's a heavy ethnic component. And seriously, was he "excusing" Australian racism anyway?

And as for making sweeping generalisations, how does this take your fancy?

Words like 'monkey' used by a white person about a black person are used to degrade by suggesting that the latter is subhuman/primitive/'just down from the trees' and so on.

You said that, and you can be pretty certain that's a sweeping generalisation. Get over yourself mate and get down off that high horse, because you don't know everything

[jazza 1,323]

there is no DEFENCE of collingwood supporters

and us irish definately got no smarts

so whats all this about then, another page for school teachers to extend to 110 pages

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

I'm half Irish.

and the Irish are not that smart .

Passionate ,lyrical,poetic and romantic yes.

Smarts is not really an Irish trait .

Least not us transplanted Oirish,

Where does the lustful, argumentative, degenerate and unhygenic disposition come from?

[jazza 1,323]

Where does the lustful, argumentative, degenerate and unhygenic disposition come from?

because he follows the scorpions

[Biffen 12,949]

Where does the lustful, argumentative, degenerate and unhygenic disposition come from?

That's the French side.

Naturalement.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Biffen

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

How do we define "race" anyway? Surely there's a heavy ethnic component. And seriously, was he "excusing" Australian racism anyway?

And as for making sweeping generalisations, how does this take your fancy?

Words like 'monkey' used by a white person about a black person are used to degrade by suggesting that the latter is subhuman/primitive/'just down from the trees' and so on.

You said that, and you can be pretty certain that's a sweeping generalisation. Get over yourself mate and get down off that high horse, because you don't know everything

No I don't but unlike you I don't mistake my ignorance for wisdom.

It's not a generalisation, btw, it's a reference to meaning and context in language use (it's called convention). And it's not something I just made up, it's what Goodes was relying on in making his complaint in the first place. Why don't you tell him to get off his high horse?

You've already demonstrated severally that you don't understand what you're saying and you understand even less anything I've said. Believe what you like in your humpty dumpty view of things, I can't be bothered trying to explain anything else. But here's a word for you: polysemy. Look it up some time and think about its consequences to what you think you're saying. If you can think.

[Chook 15,023]

No I don't but unlike you I don't mistake my ignorance for wisdom.

It's not a generalisation, btw, it's a reference to meaning and context in language use (it's called convention). And it's not something I just made up, it's what Goodes was relying on in making his complaint in the first place. Why don't you tell him to get off his high horse?

You've already demonstrated severally that you don't understand what you're saying and you understand even less anything I've said. Believe what you like in your humpty dumpty view of things, I can't be bothered trying to explain anything else. But here's a word for you: polysemy. Look it up some time and think about its consequences to what you think you're saying. If you can think.

It's not my right to tell people not to be offended. Adam Goodes was offended, as is his right. That's good enough for me. But if you don't think conventions are generalisations, then I'm afraid it's you who cannot think.

You're not as bright as you wish you were, and all your moral crusading and veiled insults are extraordinarily good proof to that effect. In fact, it's mind boggling that someone as rude as you could have the gall to take the moral high-ground on anything. You said the other day that everything you wrote came back "distorted beyond recognition," and yet you go on to imply that I would want to tell someone who has been racially abused to "get of their high horse." That is a level of hypocracy that is frankly quite hard to come across.

Moreover, you accused me of missing the forest for the trees earlier, but I think it's you who has that problem. You're so intent on combating the media by which racism is transmitted (namely, language and symbols) that you fail to understand the psychological root of the problem; that people are encouraged to place others into groups in the first place.

You call my view of things "Humpty Dumpty," yet you don't seem to have the foresight to understand that we will never be free of racism until we can see race as irrelevant. Note that I don't suggest that we should view racism as irrelevant; but simply that we should view it in the broader social context in which it operates. If a person insults another person, that should be dealt with. The nature of the insult should not play a role in the repurcussions for the individual.

But clearly you disagree with this simplistic view, as your continual need for petty insults demonstrates. Once again, just how you are able to reconcile your views on racism with the petty manner in which you engage in conversation / debate is beyond me.

P.S. I await your next witty insult as you attempt to rid me of my simplistic (or was that "naive" or "stupid"? It's hard to keep track of the insults) and misinformed ideas.

[Kenny Powers 90]

Goodes, what a big tough man!! I didn't even realise he was aboriginal. The simple fact is he looks like an ape, it's not racist at all. Just like Ron Pearlman looks like big foot and Carl Barron looks like a Rat