I think it's worse, especially given that Neeld has preached we have had a good pre-season, he has changed things up.

We were lacking fitness and now he has instilled this into it and apparently fixed up what Bailey left him.

Then we come out, get blown away a bottom 3 side in Port and get demolished by Essendon.

I think it's worse given our expectations were far higher coming into the season - than 186, which came after a season of mediocracy.

Watching that thrashing of Adelaide produced two important points for me. Sylvia CAN play excellent footy and Jack Watts should be a forward kicking goals.

Baily lost the players too, hence 186

Nope... the club and internal politics lost the players..... I think Bailey still had them

I know we don't look good yet but [censored] he inherited an unfit list with no leadership and a heap of draft picks which have not been developed properly at all.

He has a lot to answer for.

According to MN and his cheer squad....everything was hopeless when he came along. Apparently his solution has been to make it worse (much much worse). Who has he devveloped? If you think we are closer to success now than in 2011 you are a true optimist ( or too simple to join the dots)

Didnt have a plan A...definitely has no plan B

Baily lost the players too, hence 186

Has Neeld ever had them?

According to MN and his cheer squad....everything was hopeless when he came along.

Actually when Neeld came on I remember hopes being very high, esp from Mclardy and Lyon that we would be competing at top 8 level!! We were to immediately tighten up our defence and midfield accountability and improve from where we were, 8.5 wins. Then we lost 10 in a row and the talk from Schwab, Mclardy and Neeld switched to, "We have invested our faith in a process...blah blah blah...improved spending...blah blah". Somehow I turn on the radio yesterday and Mclardy is saying the same thing! Just acknowledge how far backwards we have gone and move the hell on!!

Wake up Prez! You came down in favor of Schwab, you lost the players, you got a dud in Neeld. The list has been gutted and is now the worst in the comp. Wouldn't the 2012 slide down the ladder followed by our greatest ever loss at the G be enough? Don't you remember in 2011 our development was above Richmond and only little behind North? Where are we now? Neck and neck with GWS and going backwards. It is the coach and the maligned CEO.

Act now.

Actually when Neeld came on I remember hopes being very high, esp from Mclardy and Lyon that we would be competing at top 8 level!! We were to immediately tighten up our defence and midfield accountability and improve from where we were, 8.5 wins. Then we lost 10 in a row and the talk from Schwab, Mclardy and Neeld switched to, "We have invested our faith in a process...blah blah blah...improved spending...blah blah". Somehow I turn on the radio yesterday and Mclardy is saying the same thing! Just acknowledge how far backwards we have gone and move the hell on!!

Wake up Prez! You came down in favor of Schwab, you lost the players, you got a dud in Neeld. The list has been gutted and is now the worst in the comp. Wouldn't the 2012 slide down the ladder followed by our greatest ever loss at the G be enough? Don't you remember in 2011 our development was above Richmond and only little behind North? Where are we now? Neck and neck with GWS and going backwards. It is the coach and the maligned CEO.

Act now.

I am finding it hard to disagree.

In 2011 we were shocking flat track bullies, only beating scrubber teams, and got utterly embarrassed by the good teams.

[censored] sandwich or Cup of cold vomit ... hmmmm ... what an appertising choice

Remember Neeld and co may have erred in recruiting Rodan, Byrnes and Gillies. But they also drafted Hogan, Viney at 26, Toumpas, Barry, Terlich, Kent and Jones. Besides Rivers the rest were deadwood at this club. Give the FD some time for change to take effect. We have the makings of a good team. Hold the line Demons we'll get through this

I don't know what to think but you do have some merit to this. In 1992 Essendon lost to Hawthorn by 160 points but they didn't sack Sheedy. 30 games later they won the premiership.

In 2011 we were shocking flat track bullies, only beating scrubber teams, and got utterly embarrassed by the good teams.

Now we are embarrassed by everyone!

According to MN and his cheer squad....everything was hopeless when he came along. Apparently his solution has been to make it worse (much much worse). Who has he devveloped? If you think we are closer to success now than in 2011 you are a true optimist ( or too simple to join the dots)

Didnt have a plan A...definitely has no plan B

Yeah much prefer Bailey! Super coach should never have got rid of him!

IMO 148 is worse than 186. Geelong at Skilled cannot be compared to the Dons at the G.

I don't necessarily think it leads to the conclusions that have been made here though. The inductive analysis that several posters here default to is not particularly clever, or compelling.

That said, the jury has to be out on several people and some of the decisions that have been taken post 'the Bailey years'.

Maybe if that day we didn't get beaten by 186 but say 40 points. Dean bailey was coach of 2012 plus a Mitch Clark on board. Would we be winning games or still be [censored].

Just putting it out there.. thoughts?

It all comes down to expectations, and that is why 2013 is such a bitter pill to swallow.

Under Bailey we improved, but only enough to beat interstate teams at the G. 186 was a loss we all expected, but at a far greater magnitude. He had to go

Neeld seemed the right man on paper - everything that Bailey wasnt, and was a midfield coach at one of the best clubs in the land.

Now we cant even beat up on interstate teams at the G (refer to round 1) and our players are bereft of confidence

Its a sad state of affairs, but we need to stick it out (again!)

Are we really comparing rotten apples with rotten oranges?

I don't care whether Bailey was 10 times the coach of Neeld - he wasn't taking us anywhere but where we are now.

If Neeld continues like this we will need to move toward an accomplished coach.

That debate is not aided by comapring the Bailey and Neeld eras (or errors).

Bailey was a superior speaker, strategist and communicator. If he had Neeld's Hairstyle would still be in charge.

I don't often make comments like this

But Bailey was a [censored] , as far as Neeld is concerned I have yet to make up my mind

Everyone is saying the GWS Match round 4 will be the tell all . I have to admit I agree.

No one expects us to win against WestCoast and we can only hope that the game itself is not an absolute thrashing.

However if we get Flogged by GWS not only is the Coach, the Team and the Club in trouble, but I believe then that is when the AFL will step in because they as a organisation cant allow this to continue, especially from their own viewpoint with Contracts and commitments they have made for TV rights

This will be the defining game for us and the Club, basically the club will be fighting for its survival!

To me as this will be the defining game , after it Ill make my mind up about Neeld and where he falls and what future I believe if any there is for the Melbourne Football club !

Guys,

Does anyone know how I can find the team that took the field at Skilled for '186'?

Would be interested to compare the talent we've lost versus what we've brought in for '148'.

Here's another perspective...

Alistair Clarkson won 10 of his first 40 games as Hawthorn coach

Damien Hardwick won 11 of his first 40 games as Hawthorn coach

I think the major concern is the nature of the losses that MFC are experiencing in 2013 (reminds me of Bailey's first few - 104 pts & 95 pts) There is a limit to how much of this under-performance we should accept, but I suggest the tipping point is well beyond round two of Neeld's second season.

Here's another perspective...

Alistair Clarkson won 10 of his first 40 games as Hawthorn coach

Damien Hardwick won 11 of his first 40 games as Hawthorn coach

I think the major concern is the nature of the losses that MFC are experiencing in 2013 (reminds me of Bailey's first few - 104 pts & 95 pts) There is a limit to how much of this under-performance we should accept, but I suggest the tipping point is well beyond round two of Neeld's second season.

You forget this not Neeld,s first two games.

They are his 23 and 24th.

Leaving that small problem aside

When is the time?

.

Unfortunately, anyway you look at it, we have gone backwards under Neeld. Backwards in talent, personell, enthusiasm, gameplan, excitement, fun and most importantly ON THE LADDER!!! Until he and Schwab goes the Melbourne Football Club are without a chance of moving forward.

Follow this if you will;

2011 we won 8.5 games - Surely Neeld would back himslef to take that as a baseline and build up from there?? We already had a young list so just develop them beyond what they had performed the year before. We are sooooooooooooooo much worse than 8.5 now. What I'd give for 8.5 wins.

In 2011 we often looked fast, competitive dynamic: When we won, we won big - thrashed Adelaide (watch this!

), 94 points, thrashed Freo. Look at them now and then look at us? When we lost we looked spirited yet outgunned and leaky like many a young team does. Our list was good enough to beat teams like the Swans until Neeld disempowered and traded half the talent out and got spuds in. With the talent drain since 2011, even the best gameplan in the world we would still lose uncomfortably.

Rethinking 186 - Cats pummelled 2011 runners-up Collingwood by 96 points two weeks later. This is THE Collingwood guys! You know the team that won a flag? The fully grown list and club lost by 100 to the Cats straight after we did. There was a well known power struggle behind the scenes at Melbourne which leaked out onto the field for 186. We were riven with internal tension and flogged by one of the best teams of all time, in top form, on their home turf. The Pies were at their peak and thrashed on the G. Can never be pretty but how is this equation?

186 = 96 (what the pies lost by two weeks later) + 30 (Cats at Kardinia Park toll) + 30 (internal politics leaking onto the field) + 30 (inexperienced and fatigued team). 148 is so much worse than that.

In 2011 Brent Moloney came 7th in the Brownlow: The list turnover and spiralling performance of our best talent has been the biggest crime of the Neeld/Schwab gutting. Do they know how many losses we had to suffer to get those talented young players??? Back yourself to make them players, don't just trade out Gysberts for Pederson, Petterd for Byrnes. Moloney for Rodan. Bring more out of players! Furthermore it's well documented that all our AA talent has gone backward Frawley, Jamar, Davey.

AFL standard - I am sick of hearing people write about the Neeld as though he picked up a failed rebuild basket case! We were stuttering but definitely on our way up. We were running out games fine. Neeld himself constantly sinks the boot in saying that he is trying to get to AFL standard. What disrespectful rubbish to a peer in Bailey to divert the spotlight from his own dismal performance. We have slipped so far backwards on any tangible scale since Neeld joined.

I blame Garry Lyon, Mclardy and the board for supporting snake Schwab over the senior players in the wake of 186. It takes a lot of resentment for senior players to stand up to a bully CEO. (Pavlich vs Schwab at Freo is a happy example of where the players won the day! bye bye Schwabbie!) At the Dees, Schwab had put tanking in place, shelved a 'trust exercise' report and force cut their beloved Captain Jnr Mac! For them to defy the players by sacking Bailey while we were still a chance to make the 8 was just plain weak, reactive and horrible. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Bailey was definitely going to last the distance, maybe we swap him for Malthouse after his contract was up in 2012 ala Ratts.

But one thing is for sure, we have never looked as pathetic and hopeless as we do now under Neeld. But apparently our pre-season GPS data is up to AFL standard so I might be wrong

In 2008, DB's first year, he lost the first 6 games of the season.

When he finally won his first game, the next 6 were all again lost.

When he won his second game, the next 5 were all again lost.

The final game we won for that season was in round 20 - bringing our total to 3 wins and 19 losses.

In 2009, DB's second year, by round 12 we had only won 1 game.

In 2012, MN's first year he won more games than DB, and placed the club higher than DB did in his first year.

Are you suffering from memory loss there Demonstrative or just got the blinkers on?

what an absolutely stupid thread

both 148 and 186 were atrocious games by players who played with no passion

full stop

Can't disagree at all about Neeld disempowering the players.

I know Bailey probably had to go if we weren't willing to invest money into his FD, and a fresh start was a good decision at the time, but my oh my have we [censored] up that decision.

Bailey is a better coach than Neeld.

In 2008, DB's first year, he lost the first 6 games of the season.

When he finally won his first game, the next 6 were all again lost.

When he won his second game, the next 5 were all again lost.

The final game we won for that season was in round 20 - bringing our total to 3 wins and 19 losses.

In 2009, DB's second year, by round 12 we had only won 1 game.

In 2012, MN's first year he won more games than DB, and placed the club higher than DB did in his first year.

Are you suffering from memory loss there Demonstrative or just got the blinkers on?

Neeld has done it with a list full of talent, he just has no idea how to make the talent grow and show itself.