Time to go Mark Neeld

[demon3165 2,805]

At last, some opportunity to provide examples of turning a club around, and quickly displaying succes. 1-2 seasons.

Let start off with Melbourne;

MFC - 1985 11th, coach change in 1986 - John Northey - 1987 preliminary Finalists with a young team.

MFC - 1997 16th, coach change in 1998 - Neil Daniher - 4th position

Collingwood - 1976 wooden spoon, coach change in 1977 - Tom Hafey - Grandfinalists

Collinwood - 1999 wooden spoon, coach change in 2000 - Mick Malthouse - 2002 - 4th position

Brisbane - 1998 wooden spoon - coach change in 1999 - Leigh Matthews 4th position then 3 premierships

Sydney - 2002 11th - coach change 2002-03 - Paul Roos - 4th

There are so many examples of good coaches turning things around very quickly. The most obvious is that of Ken Hinkley with Port Adelaide this year. Last year they were treated as a basket case and ready to be kicked out of the AFL.

If you go thru the records, youll find that coaches with a similiar record to Neelds first 26 games, find themselves out-the-door pretty quickly. Most football administrations can see a lemon when it is staring them in the face. For some reason, MFC admin and supporters cant see the fact. Just look at the Bailey years, now the Neeld years. Sooooooooo much patience and excuses.

2013 - Port Adelaide - First year coach -

Ports midfield is a hell of a lot better than ours at the moment.............

[H_T 3,049]

Ports midfield is a hell of a lot better than ours at the moment.............

They've been able to involve Hartlett in their midfield. I class him quite high. Their midfield looks so much better with Hartlett, Wines and a rejuvenated Cornes playing like old times.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

At last, some opportunity to provide examples of turning a club around, and quickly displaying succes. 1-2 seasons.

Let start off with Melbourne;

MFC - 1985 11th, coach change in 1986 - John Northey - 1987 preliminary Finalists with a young team.

MFC - 1997 16th, coach change in 1998 - Neil Daniher - 4th position

Collingwood - 1976 wooden spoon, coach change in 1977 - Tom Hafey - Grandfinalists

Collinwood - 1999 wooden spoon, coach change in 2000 - Mick Malthouse - 2002 - 4th position

Brisbane - 1998 wooden spoon - coach change in 1999 - Leigh Matthews 4th position then 3 premierships

Sydney - 2002 11th - coach change 2002-03 - Paul Roos - 4th

There are so many examples of good coaches turning things around very quickly. The most obvious is that of Ken Hinkley with Port Adelaide this year. Last year they were treated as a basket case and ready to be kicked out of the AFL.

If you go thru the records, youll find that coaches with a similiar record to Neelds first 26 games, find themselves out-the-door pretty quickly. Most football administrations can see a lemon when it is staring them in the face. For some reason, MFC admin and supporters cant see the fact. Just look at the Bailey years, now the Neeld years. Sooooooooo much patience and excuses.

2013 - Port Adelaide - First year coach -

If youre looking for a quick fix youre deluding yourself.

There are so many things wrong about your argument that I'm struggling to wrap my head around it... like using Daniher as an example of a quick coaching turnaround - what did he turn us around to? He was the longest serving coach in the AFL never to coach a team to a premership. Sure he got us into a grand final but only by the skin of our teeth and we got flogged... the next year what did we end up? 11th!

Also you have a servere lack of consideration to list, and club conditions when the coaches took over the position.

For example, guess what the following players all have in common:

• Hart (became Norm Smith Medalist)
• Johnson (became All Australian)
• Lappin (became All Australian)
• Leppitch (became All Australian)
• Voss (became tripple best & fairest + All Australian)
• Akermanis (became twice best & fairest, four time All Australian and Brownlow Medalist)
• Scott (became best & fairest)
• Black (became tripple time All Australian, three time best & fairest, Norm Smith Medalist, Brownlow Medalist)

They all played 200+ games, they all played in the three premerships and most importantly they were all playing for Brisbane before Leigh Mathews was coach - he inherited an extremely talented list. Much different to the one Neeld recieved (see Bennel, Morton, Cook ect.)

WORST OF ALL the primary issue with your argument is that the majority of all supports, like myself, would rather a slow build and get a premership than a quick turnaround for the top 8.

If youre not in it for the long run thats fine. But dont chuck a hissy fit when people dont agree with your extremely unreal expectations, bias stats and narrow mindedness

Edited April 26, 2013 by PJ_12345

[H_T 3,049]

There are so many things wrong about your argument that I'm struggling to wrap my head around it... like using Daniher as an example of a quick coaching turnaround - what did he turn us around to? He was the longest serving coach in the AFL never to coach a team to a premership. Sure he got us into a grand final but only by the skin of our teeth and we got flogged... the next year what did we end up? 11th!

And left the list in a shambles which the club is still recovering and rebuilding from.

[old dee 23,872]

PJ re this comment "than a quick turnaround for the top 8."

On the way home after round 2 I would have swapped for it in a heart beat.

[Lordweaver 235]

clearly it has been a disappointing start to the year and we have seen a team like Port, who we thought were similar to us climb the ladder. Neeld wears his heart on his sleeve which I don't think helps the perception that he is struggling. I think he would agree that, right now, he is struggling, but I am still not convinced that we should replace him...yet. We have to have faith that he is on the right track and mistakes will and have been made on the way and probably will continue to be made. I watch with interest how 2013 turns out because for me it is still early days.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

And left the list in a shambles which the club is still recovering and rebuilding from.

Too true.

I was going to talk about that but I had to draw the line somewhere lol

PJ re this comment "than a quick turnaround for the top 8."

On the way home after round 2 I would have swapped for it in a heart beat.

Hang in there old dee - I felt the same but at the end of the day if you dont win the premership, than youre just like everyother loser.

Since I've been alive we havent won a premership and been in a grand final once... I'm not in a hurry for bragging rights to say that we are in the top 8... look how far that got Carlton! I'm in it to win it, and willing to give whatever time it will take - in this case giving Neeld more than two years!

Edited April 26, 2013 by PJ_12345

[old dee 23,872]

Too true.

I was going to talk about that but I had to draw the line somewhere lol

Hang in there old dee - I felt the same but at the end of the day if you dont win the premership, than youre just like everyother loser.

Since I've been alive we havent won a premership and been in a grand final once... I'm not in a hurry for bragging rights to say that we are in the top 8... look how far that got Carlton! I'm in it to win it, and willing to give whatever time it will take - in this case giving Neeld more than two years!

I agree with most of what you say Pj but that line is not the way I see it.

Yes it is the ultimate prize but they are very hard to win.

Just look at the saints in recent times they had the side to do it.

One year they played in two GF's and could have won it but for one bad bounce.

Simply because you don't win the flag does not mean you have had a bad year and are a loser.

Would I swap the saints last six years for ours?

In a heart beat.

[Hardnut 327]

I agree with most of what you say Pj but that line is not the way I see it.

Yes it is the ultimate prize but they are very hard to win.

Just look at the saints in recent times they had the side to do it.

One year they played in two GF's and could have won it but for one bad bounce.

Simply because you don't win the flag does not mean you have had a bad year and are a loser.

Would I swap the saints last six years for ours?

In a heart beat.

I understand what you are saying 'old dee', but two things concern me:

1 I can't agree with you on not 'winning a flag' when the chance is there in a GF;

2 'one bad bounce' is not how I saw that action - to me it looked more like Milne didn't do what he would normally do - attack the ball.

However, I understand what you are saying, and I only offer the above comments in a philosophical sense of debate.

Go Dees!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

This thread is going to look pretty silly in 5 to 6 weeks when we have Dawes/Clark back and the team starts stringing a few wins together on the trot against decent opposition.

I can see another thread starting...... "WE MUST KEEP NEELD!!" B)

[Hardnut 327]

This thread is going to look pretty silly in 5 to 6 weeks when we have Dawes/Clark back and the team starts stringing a few wins together on the trot against decent opposition.

I can see another thread starting...... "WE MUST KEEP NEELD!!" B)

For MFC's sake your comment may be correct RN, however, Clark's playing record isn't good when games per season are considered, and Dawes?

MFC does have the easiest draw this year, so all opposition could be considered decent and I guess any win (or even two in a row) is possible under those circumstances, but it hardly says much about MN's performance!

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I agree with most of what you say Pj but that line is not the way I see it.

Yes it is the ultimate prize but they are very hard to win.

Just look at the saints in recent times they had the side to do it.

One year they played in two GF's and could have won it but for one bad bounce.

Simply because you don't win the flag does not mean you have had a bad year and are a loser.

Would I swap the saints last six years for ours?

In a heart beat.

Fair call old dee.

Its a pretty competitive view - but just the way I feel, and probably how Hawthorn feels after last year!

I've always played sports with prizes for 2nd, and 3rd but I've always been fascinated with footy with really, no prize for 2nd and the difference between the final finish of the ladder and the finals...

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

For MFC's sake your comment may be correct RN, however, Clark's playing record isn't good when games per season are considered, and Dawes?

MFC does have the easiest draw this year, so all opposition could be considered decent and I guess any win (or even two in a row) is possible under those circumstances, but it hardly says much about MN's performance!

Yeah i realise he's had a Scheisshaus 12 months and 3 matches Hard. No argument there, however.....

Once belief starts to take hold in a playing group (and a club) things turnaround fairly quickly and they're already turning. And with very few players on the LTI i'm predicting a pretty good turn around from about Round 7 onwards. I don't expect us to be giant killers and nor do i expect we'll win this weekend without a Key Forward, but we should start to rack up some wins against teams from about position 9 and down. And no i'm not suggesting we'll win every match but other than interstate games and North at Etihad (where we completely suck and they own) i'd say we're a strong chance against any of the other clubs in those positions (9 and down) at the G.

I'm predicting approximately 7 to 9 wins from about Round 7 onwards. Get your flogger out and your IQ on the ready and enjoy mate! B)

Edited April 26, 2013 by Rusty Nails

[Yossarian 1,820]

Ross Lyon on the win today:

"I wasn't in control from the first bounce to the last bounce to be honest, I think, we just try and organise them and they... we put a lot of work with our players for them to lead and get it done. If you think you can fix it game day... we gotta help, but at the end of the day the players do it, y'know."

Which strikes a chord with what Dawes said in his article:

"I think the thing we've taken a few weeks to grasp has been that just because we have done the work over summer, it doesn't mean results will happen for us. Rather, we are now capable of competing with sides because we have done the work. It's OK though, we needed to learn that lesson and we will get better."

Neeld, Craig and Misson have put the work in to get the players up to a standard to compete with the better sides, but now it's up to the players to take what they've developed in training and turn it into a competitive four quarter effort on game day.

If Neeld fails in his tenure, then at least the fitness and training standards of the playing group will have improved to the point of being comparable with the best teams in the league... The perfect position for whoever your chosen messiah is to step into.

[stuie 7,374]

Ross Lyon on the win today:

"I wasn't in control from the first bounce to the last bounce to be honest, I think, we just try and organise them and they... we put a lot of work with our players for them to lead and get it done. If you think you can fix it game day... we gotta help, but at the end of the day the players do it, y'know."

Which strikes a chord with what Dawes said in his article:

"I think the thing we've taken a few weeks to grasp has been that just because we have done the work over summer, it doesn't mean results will happen for us. Rather, we are now capable of competing with sides because we have done the work. It's OK though, we needed to learn that lesson and we will get better."

Neeld, Craig and Misson have put the work in to get the players up to a standard to compete with the better sides, but now it's up to the players to take what they've developed in training and turn it into a competitive four quarter effort on game day.

If Neeld fails in his tenure, then at least the fitness and training standards of the playing group will have improved to the point of being comparable with the best teams in the league... The perfect position for whoever your chosen messiah is to step into.

We just keep finding excuses for this guy.

I notice no one is talking about "corporate governance" when it comes to the coach...

[stuie 7,374]

I'm predicting approximately 7 to 9 wins from about Round 7 onwards. Get your flogger out and your IQ on the ready and enjoy mate! B)

So what you're saying is, "relax, we've got this"...... Hmmmmmmmm.....

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

So what you're saying is, "relax, we've got this"...... Hmmmmmmmm.....

Subject to Clark/Dawes coming in in the next 2 to 3 weeks and staying there, minimal other injuries and Neeld/FD playing Rodan for the rest of the year and somehow getting Magner into the team....Yes!!

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

We just keep finding excuses for this guy.

I notice no one is talking about "corporate governance" when it comes to the coach...

Haha stuie - c'mon mate

Are you saying 2 opinions from two people in the AFL industry at the mmoment have no weight in this argument and your "Corporate Governance' (which does not apply to AFL football departments as they are not running a business) is more relavent.

Take a chill pill brother... Otherwise you;ll end up sounding delusional and upset like Tona

Neeld will be judged by the on-feild prefomance of the team I have no doubt about that- but a lot of argument against Neeld is misdirected IMO - eg you need the cattle to execute a game plan - read through preious pages I CBF repeating myself. To change a front running, zero defence culture is going to talk longer then 1 or 2 seasons

Edited April 27, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

So what you're saying is, "relax, we've got this"...... Hmmmmmmmm.....

I can't see where he said this.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Fair enough. I think Neeld is clearly on the back foot, frankly I don't know if he is the right man nor whether he has been given enough time to make an accurate judgment. I think the list was in poor shape when he took over despite all our high picks. I think our side had a pathetic fitness base. I think the culture of the club and playing group was very poor. The club agreed which is why they gave him a mandate to change the culture of the club. I don't think its fair to expect he would achieve that in 18 months.

The loss to Essendon was clearly horrible but not without precedent in our game. Essendon lost by 160 points to Hawthorn in 1992 and won the flag the next year.

I am willing to give Neeld this year to see whether he can make improvements and another draft to see if he can improve our midfield clearly our biggest weakness.

The only thing I will say is that if the rumours of rifts between Neeld and certain players are true they need to be sorted out yesterday. That may mean Neeld goes or maybe the players in question but if it is the whole playing group (which I sincerely doubt) then his position is untenable.

I also would be reluctant to sack Neeld and go with another rookie coach. If we have an experienced coach lined up then you can start thinking about replacing him. But at this stage I'd rather see Harrington, Royal, Rawlings, Mahoney and even Viney and McLardy go before Neeld does.

This exactly. 10 out of 10, Dr Gonzo.

Dead set, some MFC supporters remind me of those two old muppets, Statler and Waldorf - grumpy old fellas for whom nothing is ever okay.

For instance, I was watching the game last week with a Demons supporter who fits this mould. He was bitching and moaning throughout the whole game.

After the final quarter, one of the best I have ever seen, I said to him, tongue in cheek, "you hated that, didn't you?! I mean, what are you going to whinge about now?"

His response - "it was only GWS".

My response - "you're #%#%ing delisted".

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

We just keep finding excuses for this guy.

I notice no one is talking about "corporate governance" when it comes to the coach...

Just to continue this shortsighted arugment

Under our current structure shouldn't the Board or the Football director be responisble for the Football Department preformance under 'Corporate Governance'??

Not 100% sure of the coaching/FD structure but i'd reckon Neeld isn't at the top of the tree...

Just highlights what a poor argument it is Stuie - just run with I don't like Neeld and I will have more respect for you

[stuie 7,374]

Haha stuie - c'mon mate

Are you saying 2 opinions from two people in the AFL industry at the mmoment have no weight in this argument and your "Corporate Governance' (which does not apply to AFL football departments as they are not running a business) is more relavent.

Take a chill pill brother... Otherwise you;ll end up sounding delusional and upset like Tona

Neeld will be judged by the on-feild prefomance of the team I have no doubt about that- but a lot of argument against Neeld is misdirected IMO - eg you need the cattle to execute a game plan - read through preious pages I CBF repeating myself. To change a front running, zero defence culture is going to talk longer then 1 or 2 seasons

I just think the point in getting a new coach is to get better, and this year we've looked even worse than when he first took over, and I'm really worried.

[stuie 7,374]

Just to continue this shortsighted arugment

Under our current structure shouldn't the Board or the Football director be responisble for the Football Department preformance under 'Corporate Governance'??

Not 100% sure of the coaching/FD structure but i'd reckon Neeld isn't at the top of the tree...

Just highlights what a poor argument it is Stuie - just run with I don't like Neeld and I will have more respect for you

If we blame the president for the performance of the club, surely by extension we blame the coach for the performance of the team?

Just too many convenient excuses around 'Land this year.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I just think the point in getting a new coach is to get better, and this year we've looked even worse than when he first took over, and I'm really worried.

Nothing wrong with that opinion mate...... Preformance is a real worry through the first 4 weeks of this season, no argument there.

At this stage I am willing to look on the brigh side and hope that the playing group are still a work in progress. Afterall with 14 inclusions and up to 7 - 10 new faces in the senior team it is going to take some time to gel - and young blokes need time to develop to AFL standard coupled with our lack of senior talent who don't preform to AFL standard week to week

But I agree if the poor preformance keep up and Neeld can't get the team competitive he will be in big trouble.

I guess the counter argument to that is how long does a coach need to install a new culture and plan? But ultimetly if Neeld can't get the team to be competitive he will go

The real problem at the MFC that no one has really touched on and again there is no easy answer is why hasn't the MFC from as far back as the 90's - why have we never had a consistent preforming team from week to week - year to year???

This is where I hope Neeld can step up the professionalism - but again I go back to your argument - if he can't get the team competitive he will lose his job

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

If we blame the president for the performance of the club, surely by extension we blame the coach for the performance of the team?

Just too many convenient excuses around 'Land this year.

I see your point but maybe there is too much blame and not enough hard work - the new FD has only been in place 1 season (all be it 2 pre seasons)

How long does the blame game go on?

For example - a new coach comes in say round 10 - we put up with more crap until '14 - then he needs to develop the team in his mould so that could mean the whole season of 2014 is wasted and if he fails in 14/15 do we get a new coach again???

That strategy for me lacks integrity and professionalism for the sake of giving hope to supporters.... and that's why I won't back sacking Neeld until 14 (or his position is un sustainable)

Edited April 27, 2013 by Unleash Hell