No one has stated publicly they were told to lose games. Full stop. The media hasn't quoted anyone saying it - and believe me they would if they had that admission.

It is a juicy story that is being sensationalised in the quiet footy period. The weekly meeting room suddenly becomes 'the vault', player experimentation becomes 'trying to lose', Bailey addressing players to explain how the second half of 2009 will unfold - ie the experimentation that went on - is all of a sudden 'nudge,nudge, wink wink, we are trying to lose but I just can't say it'.

Its very difficult watching us get pilloried in the media every day but take a leaf out of Julia Gillard's book and the slush fund affair 'I've already addressed that' she said. She did nothing of the sort but until they have a smoking gun she is scott free. The club is denying the story oxygen and will respond when the AFL investigation is finished. Any other strategy at this point is foolish,

Get on the front foot after the investigation and slam this who are sticking the boots in. Caro, Robbo, Kennett, Gardner, McLean, PJ etc. Gather the troops and rev them up.

  On 01/11/2012 at 23:13, belzebub59 said:

Im in two minds about this. One sort of agrees but the other as Ive noted elsewhere is more circumspect to the events and opportunities.

Just like first impressions , going onto your front foot usually affords a one off opportunity to get offensive ( gamewise ) stuff it up and youre in no mans land quick smart. Just like comedy timing is everything. Im not sure what they look like or how many there are but id suggest Mclardy is awaiting all the little black ducks to line up for his opening salvo. It might be soon it might be in court.

The media are pushing all the butons attempting to get a bite out of the club. Theyd love a presser where they could ambush.

Saying nothing presently makes that very hard to do. All they are currently offering is rehashes of speculative jibes.

This is war, timing is everything.

i agree with you on this, but todays articles have really ramped it up.

Direct quotes threatening jobs??

Legally how long do you wait?

CARLTON says it would welcome any investigation into tanking at its club, with president Stephen Kernahan saying yesterday the Blues were "clean as a whistle".

  On 01/11/2012 at 23:20, why you little said:

i agree with you on this, but todays articles have really ramped it up.

Direct quotes threatening jobs??

Legally how long do you wait?

until you can battle in a LEGAL forum.....a court

  On 01/11/2012 at 22:29, america de cali said:

It appears Schwab, McLardy and co have made themselves unavailable to the media so far. They don't want to answer some very tough questions. They have the right of reply to the media allegations but they choose not to.

Why should they give oxygen to this bunch of sensationalist hacks? What do they have to answer. No charges have been laid nor accusations levelled. We have nothing to comment on at this stage.

Why don't you make your agenda transparent? Either put up or shut up. Better still, just go away.

  On 01/11/2012 at 23:25, belzebub59 said:

until you can battle in a LEGAL forum.....a court

yes. I hope the MFC follow through on that.

Maybe this is the true reason for the war chest!

  On 01/11/2012 at 22:22, Waltham33 said:

Don't get mad, with the club not being able to reply/choosing not to reply, our time will come, be patient - I trust it will be worth it.

not mad at the club it's 90% of the football media that makes me sick

An analogy Bubs...

If you can see someone scraping away at your car door everyday you'll stop them. Not wait for the door to get so bad the whole car needs replacing. Same analogy could apply aboutany business or even your Family/close friends.

Don't advise recklessly biting back. I would like to see our Pres assure us in a calculated fashion ...(similar to Mitch's statement yesterday from a players point of view...the events haven't effected the players etc...) that the MFC is going forward as planned and are co-operating with the AFL....bla...... FINISH. No need to feed CW's story.

We are all staunch Demon supporters. I harbour anger at CW while also giving her credit for running the story. She must have her sources. Point is we are all in doubt while thinking about re-newing memberships.

Chris Connolly must be livid if allegation against him prove to be false or off the mark in some way. Alleged statements along the lines of Jim would be annoyed after the PA win taints the club further. Jim should be respected here. That is garbage journalism!

  On 01/11/2012 at 23:43, thaipantsman said:

An analogy Bubs...

If you can see someone scraping away at your car door everyday you'll stop them. Not wait for the door to get so bad the whole car needs replacing. Same analogy could apply aboutany business or even your Family/close friends.

Don't advise recklessly biting back. I would like to see our Pres assure us in a calculated fashion ...(similar to Mitch's statement yesterday from a players point of view...the events haven't effected the players etc...) that the MFC is going forward as planned and are co-operating with the AFL....bla...... FINISH. No need to feed CW's story.

We are all staunch Demon supporters. I harbour anger at CW while also giving her credit for running the story. She must have her sources. Point is we are all in doubt while thinking about re-newing memberships.

Chris Connolly must be livid if allegation against him prove to be false or off the mark in some way. Alleged statements along the lines of Jim would be annoyed after the PA win taints the club further. Jim should be respected here. That is garbage journalism!

Agree with this too!!

Always two sides to consider.

Chris Conolly would be breathing fire today....

  On 01/11/2012 at 22:29, america de cali said:

It appears Schwab, McLardy and co have made themselves unavailable to the media so far. They don't want to answer some very tough questions. They have the right of reply to the media allegations but they choose not to.

You are delusional if your hope is to somehow demonstrate complicity through the fact they haven't responded.

1) McLardy has previously stated the club rejected allegations of deliberately loosing games and would defend itself.

2) The AFL investigation is incomplete. and no 'facts' have been presented.

3) Responding to any media allegations would simply feed their frenzy and serves only their interest.

One very basic understanding of being a board member or CEO is to follow a proper process. Once an allegation or charge is presented then the club needs to present it's side. If you don't have that basic understanding you really are unqualified to comment on anyone at the clubs approach to this matter.

  On 01/11/2012 at 10:51, Redleg said:

Good post. I feel the same. I am 60 and have supported them all my life. My wife and kids the same. Never seen them win a flag. Copped [censored] from other clubs fans all my life but never strayed. I started the first supporters club magazine, called Demon's World. I started a supporters group called the Premier's Club. I have been a Director of the club. I have been Team Manager of the club. I brought in a new President, Wayne Reid. I am a Foundation member. I am a sponsor. I enjoy Demonland. I have given all my hope and soul to this club. I don't want anything but success for the club.

I have watched Boards fight each other. I was even part of one big fight. I nearly cried at the merger meeting when I saw the way people treated the late Tiger Ridley, a true Demon great. I have seen the club tear itself apart. This year I watched as Jim passed away, not long after two other Demon greats in Sean Wight and Stewart Spencer. I watched a sponsor stuff us up. I watched the Jurrah situation. I watched as our Coach was falsely called a racist. I watched the team get smashed week after week. I watched the media go to town on us and they still are.

It just seems so unfair. Other teams cheat and win Premierships. We are the only team to win a game that losing would have given us a priority pick and we did it twice. When we did get a pick the kid spent a year lying to us and his dying President before the AFL took him away from us. There is so much more i could go on about.

We seem to spend all of our time worrying about our club. It nearly makes you want to cry and give up. However that is just not acceptable as I have my children and grandchildren who I want to one day enjoy success that I have been denied.

Stop the fighting amongst each other and all get behind the club.

If we lose draft picks I want this club to fight all the way and I mean all the way. We owe it to those who came before and those who will come after. I don't give a rat's arse what we have to do to prevail in this situation, I just want it done. If we have to bring in every other club or destroy Demetriou or hurt the AFL I don't give a sh-t anymore. I have had enough.

Yes we may have been naughty but no different to many other clubs yet we alone once again are copping it. Our brand is being trashed and our future hampered and in fact put at real risk. We have 40 or so players who want to win for us and we need to support them. I don't care how dirty we need to be just do it.

We are seen as a weak club. NO BLOODY MORE. If we lose draft picks, we should hit the Courts, rally at the AFL and show the rest of the clubs that we are here to stay.

Sorry for the rant, I have just had a gutful.

BUMP!

Seriously, its becasue of posts like this that i read demonland.

As a relitivley young fan, living on the other side of the country, this type of stuff is pure gold!

  On 31/10/2012 at 09:50, daisycutter said:

could be expensive jcb - 2 years of contract to pay out and no option of trading

Unless of course he's implicated in this whole mess and given his marching orders by the AFL.

I can't think of any club that has had as horrible, turbulent or demoralising period than us. The last 2 years have been godawful as a Dee's fan.

And for these faceless ex-Demon's who railed against twnking tactics. Hey idiot, reality check, if you blokes were any good, tanking wouldn’t have even been an issue. I watched enough insipid football to feel legitimately disgusted that you now feel it necessary to anonymously pot the club for tanking. What was your excuse when we were ‘trying’ to win? At least Brock put his name to his claims. Weak effort, and feel sick that I probably cheered you on at some point in time.

With every ‘Demon (insert controversy here)’ article that I read, I feel a bit like that henchman in Austin Powers who eventually suffered death by steamroller. Yet I keep reading…

  On 01/11/2012 at 22:29, america de cali said:

It appears Schwab, McLardy and co have made themselves unavailable to the media so far. They don't want to answer some very tough questions. They have the right of reply to the media allegations but they choose not to.

And wisely. They should only reply to any real allegations (should there be any) from the AFL, not this zealous media beat up.

To Redleg,

With you all the way!!

  On 01/11/2012 at 23:46, why you little said:

Agree with this too!!

Always two sides to consider.

Chris Conolly would be breathing fire today....

Aside from fire breathing, today would be a good day to resign like at about 4.59pm. Would be a good move considering it will be a quiet 4 days for the media due to the Melbourne Cup. No better way to deny the media oxygen.

  On 01/11/2012 at 11:49, Ben-Hur said:

It's funny. I started a thread not so long ago whether one's support for the club was conditional, or unconditional. Whether supporters had a tipping point, or not. Right now, in the face of uncertainty and possibly serious ramifications I've never felt more committed, or up for a fight. And this is irrespective of the clubs possible infractions, because I know in my heart they were right. Even if they were wrong.

And great post Redleg.

I'm the opposite. In my heart I know the club was wrong to lose. It has done far more harm than good. One only has to look at Sydney to see what a committed group and club can do with average draft picks. The debacle that was tanking has severely divided the club once again. I can't see the winners in this. I'm not saying the club shouldn't fight the AFL on this, of course it should. What I am saying that my interest in football has waned in the last 2 years. A tipping point I never thought existed is now apparent. However it has more to do with the rampant corporatism of everyone and everything than it does with the club I grew up loving since day dot.

  On 02/11/2012 at 00:17, america de cali said:

Aside from fire breathing, today would be a good day to resign like at about 4.59pm. Would be a good move considering it will be a quiet 4 days for the media due to the Melbourne Cup. No better way to deny the media oxygen.

Perhaps following the AGM, you might like to go and find an AFL team to support?

  On 01/11/2012 at 10:51, Redleg said:

Good post. I feel the same. I am 60 and have supported them all my life. My wife and kids the same. Never seen them win a flag. Copped [censored] from other clubs fans all my life but never strayed. I started the first supporters club magazine, called Demon's World. I started a supporters group called the Premier's Club. I have been a Director of the club. I have been Team Manager of the club. I brought in a new President, Wayne Reid. I am a Foundation member. I am a sponsor. I enjoy Demonland. I have given all my hope and soul to this club. I don't want anything but success for the club.

I have watched Boards fight each other. I was even part of one big fight. I nearly cried at the merger meeting when I saw the way people treated the late Tiger Ridley, a true Demon great. I have seen the club tear itself apart. This year I watched as Jim passed away, not long after two other Demon greats in Sean Wight and Stewart Spencer. I watched a sponsor stuff us up. I watched the Jurrah situation. I watched as our Coach was falsely called a racist. I watched the team get smashed week after week. I watched the media go to town on us and they still are.

It just seems so unfair. Other teams cheat and win Premierships. We are the only team to win a game that losing would have given us a priority pick and we did it twice. When we did get a pick the kid spent a year lying to us and his dying President before the AFL took him away from us. There is so much more i could go on about.

We seem to spend all of our time worrying about our club. It nearly makes you want to cry and give up. However that is just not acceptable as I have my children and grandchildren who I want to one day enjoy success that I have been denied.

Stop the fighting amongst each other and all get behind the club.

If we lose draft picks I want this club to fight all the way and I mean all the way. We owe it to those who came before and those who will come after. I don't give a rat's arse what we have to do to prevail in this situation, I just want it done. If we have to bring in every other club or destroy Demetriou or hurt the AFL I don't give a sh-t anymore. I have had enough.

Yes we may have been naughty but no different to many other clubs yet we alone once again are copping it. Our brand is being trashed and our future hampered and in fact put at real risk. We have 40 or so players who want to win for us and we need to support them. I don't care how dirty we need to be just do it.

We are seen as a weak club. NO BLOODY MORE. If we lose draft picks, we should hit the Courts, rally at the AFL and show the rest of the clubs that we are here to stay.

Sorry for the rant, I have just had a gutful.

Totally, I agree as much as I possibly can.

I am sick of bending down to power clubs, & bleating to the AFL, who in turn, turn they're dogs on us.

Over them & over the double standards.

Fight or Die.

United, we will never be defeated.

  On 02/11/2012 at 00:19, Roost It said:

I'm the opposite. In my heart I know the club was wrong to lose. It has done far more harm than good. One only has to look at Sydney to see what a committed group and club can do with average draft picks. The debacle that was tanking has severely divided the club once again. I can't see the winners in this. I'm not saying the club shouldn't fight the AFL on this, of course it should. What I am saying that my interest in football has waned in the last 2 years. A tipping point I never thought existed is now apparent. However it has more to do with the rampant corporatism of everyone and everything than it does with the club I grew up loving since day dot.

i feel the same way, its a real a headache following this club in the last 2 seasons, you can tolerate losing, but its the board room backstabing thats been going on for years that really pisses me off, theres just no enjoyment in sight,.

  On 02/11/2012 at 00:19, Roost It said:

I'm the opposite. In my heart I know the club was wrong to lose. It has done far more harm than good. One only has to look at Sydney to see what a committed group and club can do with average draft picks. The debacle that was tanking has severely divided the club once again. I can't see the winners in this. I'm not saying the club shouldn't fight the AFL on this, of course it should. What I am saying that my interest in football has waned in the last 2 years. A tipping point I never thought existed is now apparent. However it has more to do with the rampant corporatism of everyone and everything than it does with the club I grew up loving since day dot.

hang in there Roost. There are good people at our club still.

Have any of you guys met CC before?

I'd say its highly likely that he said to the room that they'd be fired if we didn't get a priority pick.

That's his sense of humour down to a tee.

Problem is, how does that look to investigators?

Surely the club couldn't be sanctioned over a flippant comment??

  On 02/11/2012 at 00:17, america de cali said:

Aside from fire breathing, today would be a good day to resign like at about 4.59pm. Would be a good move considering it will be a quiet 4 days for the media due to the Melbourne Cup. No better way to deny the media oxygen.

You really are stupid aren't you; if CC resigned today it would almost be an admission of guilt and what purpose would that serve?

Your hatred for CS and CC is borderline dangerous and they obviously cut you out of the process when they kicked you out of the club. Seek help before you do something to harm yourself.

  On 02/11/2012 at 00:28, José Mourinho said:

Have any of you guys met CC before?

I'd say its highly likely that he said to the room that they'd be fired if we didn't get a priority pick.

That's his sense of humour down to a tee.

Problem is, how does that look to investigators?

Surely the club couldn't be sanctioned over a flippant comment??

So it was the vault of jokes, a bit like the chamber of farts?

It's a tough pitch but heck let's go with it.

I like the Herald Sun reporting that the players were told that there was going to be a huge change of tactics halfway through 2009. Given that we were 1-10 halfway through the season, 3-8 for the rest of it and not actually that bad the next year with two All-Australians I'd say whatever the changes were they had some positive benefits.

I don't want to hear anything from the players about how they were terribly treated that year. They were no bloody good to start with.

"Connolly and Schwab will destroy your club."

This comment was said during a conversation on a tram to the MCG between myself and a Freo supporter before the Geelong vs. Freo final a couple years ago. When i asked why they will destroy our club, he replied that "they will run their own agenda. they werent liked at freo"

Having looked on google i came across this article in 2010 about the rise of Fremantle...makes for interesting reading..

In 2002, with Fremantle facing their biggest ever non-derby home game, Fremantle coach Chris Connolly, flanked by chief executive Cameron Schwab, dubbed opposite number Mick Malthouse "Darth Vader" to pump up the game against Collingwood.

In 2004, with the Dockers fresh from their first finals berth, he went further by likening the game against Grant Thomas' fast rising St Kilda to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier squaring off.

In round 1, 2010, Connolly's successor Mark Harvey's first reaction to a stunning nine-goal upset of Adelaide was to hose down the hype.

Ahead of this weekend's match against reigning premiers Geelong, Harvey dubbed his young Dockers "P-platers".

The last two incarnations of the Fremantle Football Club are chalk and cheese. If the Connolly-Schwab era was much hyped and promoted, it's fair to label the Harvey-Steve Rosich era as a quiet build.

That is not to bag Connolly and Schwab, who inherited a debt-riddled football club and needed bums on seats and money in banks quickly. So they traded rather than drafted and they talked up rather than hosed down.

Off-field, they built a successful football club.

The new era is trying to do what Schwab and Connolly never quite managed: build a successful team.

Chief executive Rosich shuns comparisons with the previous hierarchy because he understands the financial realities and the needs they created.

Schwab's Dockers needed marketability and financial stability. Rosich's Dockers need young players with ability and long-term credibility.

Schwab needed a club that would float, built from the top down. Rosich needs a team for the future, built from the foundations up.

So Fremantle have undergone a quiet overhaul, which started with Rosich's appointment as CEO in July 2008 and is still a long way from finished despite an encouraging start to the season.

It began with a frank assessment, done with football operations general manager Chris Bond and Rosich, as to where the club was at. There was a list management model drawn up and change flowed.

"It clearly highlighted the need to turn over a large percentage of our list and a need to get a large group of younger players into the club, in particular as many first and second- round draft picks as we could muster," Rosich said. "That has been the most visible change and it has probably led the other changes."

Their recruiting department was restructured, headed up by Brad Lloyd, for an assault on the 2008 draft. He said the club's approach to it and the following draft in 2009 was two-pronged.

"The focus wasn't on past decisions; it was what we needed to do to get us to the next level rather than looking backwards," Lloyd said. "We thought that building a list through the draft was the way to go, keeping all our first and second round early picks."

It was partly about young talent at the national draft. Hence Stephen Hill, Nick Suban, Anthony Morabito and a little older Hayden Ballantyne.

It was also about finding more mature players from the rookie draft to fill a gaping void on the Dockers' list. Hence Greg Broughton, Jay van Berlo, Matt de Boer, Michael Barlow and Alex Silvagni.

The early evidence suggests the Dockers have scored on both fronts.

"But you can't just bring in lots of young players and devote the same amount and quality of resources to them and expect results," Rosich said. "We looked closely at all of our resources and there has been significant change. The first major changes came in the sports science area. Then this year we established a new academy headed by Simon Lloyd.

"It is all to ensure we are developing our playing list, which has become a very young playing list, as quickly as possible."

The differences between the Schwab and Rosich regimes do not end there though.

Before 2005, with his club struggling to meet the high expectations, Schwab and the board moved quickly to re-sign coach Connolly to head off speculation.

Rosich stressed this week that the club's good start would not alter the time frame for Harvey negotiations.

"We have got a time frame and parameters in place to work with Mark and his managers. There is no need to alter that because of win-loss ratios. That would be exactly the same if we hadn't got across the line in our first two games," he said.

The club will remain low-key and conservative rather than pumping up its games. The side effects are small but measurable.

The Dockers are likely to have a membership of about 36,000 this year, smaller than recent years, and have budgeted conservatively for a smaller profit.

"We have been determined not to make short-term decisions on and off-field for short-term gains off the field," Rosich said. "Our messages have been deliberately conservative and they will continue to be so, and the strategies on and off the field will continue to have a longer term rather than shorter term focus.

"We hope the public will vote with their feet if we are playing disciplined and organised football and continue to improve.

Some interesting thoughts about Connolly and Schwab on Dockerland as well!