Sharrod Wellingham

[rpfc 27,451]

Martin can be involved but I would like to keep Pick 13. I think he would be good but he will find life tougher at the Dees.

And Beams and Sidebottom are in a different league to Wellingham.

Would love to have one of them...

[H_T 2,941]

But who would WE prefer?

Wellingham or Caddy?

I'm not sure myself.

Leaning towards Wellingham.

Caddy for me.

edit: I should clarify my bold choice though^. Only because I see him as as a bargaining tool for reward for Suns as a leverage to get JV in the second round.

I like Wellingham and he'd normally be first in line for me on choice, in terms of production and not potential. But a few things would have to happen (moons align), including convincing him to tour our facilities. If that happens, all well and good.

Edited October 3, 2012 by H_T
Clarification/additional explanation

[Hannibal 5,814]

I reckon the difference in the two clubs offers will be much greater than that. We're at polar ends of the salary cap; my understanding is that even with Clark, with our front ended contracts and higher paid players like Moloney and Green making way, we're still in a position pay the right player a considerable amount of money. I don't think it's out of the question for us to offer Wellingham something like $750k to Collingwood's $350k. It might be worth than he's worth technically, but if you've the money to spare and are better off with the player than without then it's money well spent for mine.

This is all just guesswork, of course, and obviously only applies if Cloke stays at Collingwood. If Cloke goes it'll greatly increase Collingwood's ability to get closer to our offer and it's a no brainer that he'll say.

I wanted to revisit your post.

I said that I thought Wellingham would be on about $350K, but even then I wondered if I was being a little generous. It's been reported in today's paper that he's been offered $300K and is having a few days break in WA to assess his options. It's believed he'd prefer to stay at Collingwood, but is going to weigh up the option of returning to Perth.

Do you still want to pay $750K to a player that is B grade and one that's been offered $300K by his own club ? I suspect if Melbourne really wanted him they'd offer $450K at best. I'd pass.

[Nasher 33,047]

I wanted to revisit your post.

I said that I thought Wellingham would be on about $350K, but even then I wondered if I was being a little generous. It's been reported in today's paper that he's been offered $300K and is having a few days break in WA to assess his options. It's believed he'd prefer to stay at Collingwood, but is going to weigh up the option of returning to Perth.

Do you still want to pay $750K to a player that is B grade and one that's been offered $300K by his own club ? I suspect if Melbourne really wanted him they'd offer $450K at best. I'd pass.

I know this is going to sound like weasle words, but my point was less about the actual numbers and more about the point that we would need to, and would be in a position to significantly overpay. I was really just trying to make a point about the scale rather than the absolute numbers (as it's all just guesswork when I don't know how much we're paying our other players), and I still maintain that if we've got the cap room now and in to the future, there's no drawback in doing that if we want the player.

I never "wanted" to pay $750k to Wellingham. I don't even particularly "want" Wellingham personally, I was just writing my posts on the assumption that the club did.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I know this is going to sound like weasle words...

Yes, a little - $750K being "money well spent for mine", etc.

I'm all for trading to improve and you only need to look at Sydney for an example. Their talent identification and trading has been phenomenal. They haven't got every single trade right, but more often than not they have and the environment, structures and culture at the club gets the best out of players. If you don't do it the Sydney way you won't play.

I was going to start another thread (and still may), because it's definitely thread worthy, but Sydney's effort to once again reach the GF is exceptional. They have only 4 players from their 2005 Grand Final team still on their list and saddling up again on Saturday - LRT, Goodes, Jude Bolton, and ROK. In 7 years they've been able to virtually completely rebuild to perhaps another premiership with only that solid core of 4 remaining. In the same period we've had access to the best talent in the land through the draft. We've chosen poorly, coached poorly, developed poorly and haven't had the type of culture that has been conducive to success.

The Swans template to success is first class and in the main they haven't had to "buy" players. They did overpay Mummy, but most of their trading has just been astute. And even his contract was around the $300K mark. As a club they make good decisions.

I keep asking, when is the MFC going to start making good decisions ? Paying ridiculous coin to B graders isn't a club making good decisions.

Some clubs and organisations hope for success and some expect it. There are completely different vibes in different work environments. There's a new poster whose name is 'Demandsuccess'. I appreciate the sentiment, but Expectsuccess' would have been better. This club has to change its whole mindset. Maybe it has under Neeld. If so I expect to start seeing it next year.

[Ouch! 2,034]

Paying ridiculous coin to B graders isn't a club making good decisions.

Just in relation to this bit though.... and whilst it's true. As a general rule you do have to pay more to get a player from another club to come over. Secondly there is a salary cap that you have to adhere to as a min and a max. With free agency being introduced and our club having Moloney, Green and Jurrah definately not on the list, plus possibly having some players like Rivers etc moving on... we do have to still pay min cap. How would you do it?

I guess we can renegotiate some existing contracts, we have a lot of cash we may HAVE to spend.... it has to be spent somewhere, and lets face it the MFC isn't going to be stupid with it's spending, they will know what can and can't be done.

[Guest Rassilon]

I wouldn't believe everything you read in the newspapers unlike others ... Sharrod has gone home to discuss with West Coast & possibly Fremantle if his future sits with them.

You would have to think Collingwood where still in-front but things change - Kerr is not getting any younger Eagles may pounce, Dockers hard to say but you cant rule them out. Us we would be an outside chance ... may be the Hawks if they had a need (team up with his house mate).

Edited September 27, 2012 by Rassilon

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Just to put it out their on Wellinghams value, KM suggests he would take 20 kids this season ahead of Wellingham if he was in the draft. So pick 13 seems very much overs.

[rpfc 27,451]

The numbers were meaningless to Nasher's point.

We have the capacity, and until we are a better prospect to come to, the need - to overpay for decent talent.

Doesn't mean we have to - we can go through the draft and Delisted FA and Rookies and the PSD and low end FAs but if you want decent talent we will have to overpay and our TPP situation is weighted to do that. We have frontended contracts to pay someone this season and if we cannot lure some talent this year we will front end to meet the 95% threshold and do it again next year. Good teams offer the right fringe players more money then they are worth in the educated knowledge they will be worthy of that contract.

Sydney did that with Mumford.

We did it with Clark.

Maybe there is your answer BH - to 'when do we start making the decisions good teams make?'

Maybe that was Clark.

[rpfc 27,451]

A quirk of the software that Land is using - when you are finished composing a post - your ignore prefs are, well, ignored, and you can read people you don't want to read.

No problem, just a quirk.

Edited September 27, 2012 by rpfc

[Guest Rassilon]

I know this is going to sound like weasle words, but my point was less about the actual numbers and more about the point that we would need to, and would be in a position to significantly overpay. I was really just trying to make a point about the scale rather than the absolute numbers (as it's all just guesswork when I don't know how much we're paying our other players), and I still maintain that if we've got the cap room now and in to the future, there's no drawback in doing that if we want the player.

I never "wanted" to pay $750k to Wellingham. I don't even particularly "want" Wellingham personally, I was just writing my posts on the assumption that the club did.

I would have thought Wellingham at his tops would be worth more in the McKay range say $450-500. Might have to see what WC offer.

[Gippsland Dee 365]

Still think Wellingham has potential to be A grader, still very young.

Mitch Clark wasn't worth the cash etc last year in most peoples minds but we picked him up as he was entering his prime.

Maybe getting 22 year old Wellingham will be the same?

i was thinking the same thing after reading a number of posts

Aloso atm i think he doesn't seem to be as good as he probably is because he has to compete with the likes of pendelbury, swan, beams and sidebottom! This is a pretty tall ask and naturally these players will get more opportunity as they're currently better players. If he was to play with us then he would be given every opportuinity to grow and develop, and he could very well become what clark has become for us!

[dee-luded 2,958]

Dude wears hipster specs with his Collingwood tracksuit.

He should be waterboarded in a pool of Danish-based Apple cider for that.

HaHaHa, Fresh, or used???

[Guest Rassilon]

Just to put it out their on Wellinghams value, KM suggests he would take 20 kids this season ahead of Wellingham if he was in the draft. So pick 13 seems very much overs.

Hypothetically speaking if Sharrod was to go back home you might get a three way deal going

Collingwood out Wellingham in Martin West coast - out player around the value of pick 20 in Wellingham Melbourne out Martin in a player from West Coast & depending on the player maybe an exchange of picks somewhere. But suppose it would all come down too where Sharrod wants to play.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Rassilon

[dee-luded 2,958]

We've focused on youngsters for too long though, you can't argue that we need some quality experienced players.

I'm sick of hearing, we're going to draft this guy or that, then in 4 or 5 years we'll be a good team... Think about who's left/leaving, Green, Moloney, Rivers, pretty much the most experienced players from a group that is already one of the youngest in the AFL, the future is now, if all you ever do is plan ahead you'll never get anywhere.

Consider Stuie, that the AFL goes to a 2 + 2 bench next year. The floods & presses are minimilised.

IMO the gamestyles like the Swans will be hurt by this as they're B grade hard workers won't be able to cover enough ground to keep the congestion efficient.

And so IMO Class will reemerge as Numero Uno.

Kids are essential & early picks IMO are critical to us, just as much as Fixing our Culture problem is.

[stuie 7,374]

Consider Stuie, that the AFL goes to a 2 + 2 bench next year. The floods & presses are minimilised.

IMO the gamestyles like the Swans will be hurt by this as they're B grade hard workers won't be able to cover enough ground to keep the congestion efficient.

And so IMO Class will reemerge as Numero Uno.

Kids are essential & early picks IMO are critical to us, just as much as Fixing our Culture problem is.

As are mature players. We have more than enough kids.

[dee-luded 2,958]

One of the footnotes to an article in the Courier Mail about Grant Thomas' departure from TV

Maybe micky sprayed public when he found out the cloke in the closet wouldn't sign straight off but will wait to see the cards fall.

MM must have been signed for Sum Time?

[Dee*ceiving 876]

2 million, 4 years. 1 Million in year 1.

DONE!

It's 500K a year with a 500K sign on bonus in year 1

[brey9186 102]

He's not leaving Melbourne and his bunch of fake trendsetters, his lifestyle with buddy and co is too good!

[rpfc 27,451]

2 million, 4 years. 1 Million in year 1.

DONE!

It's 500K a year with a 500K sign on bonus in year 1

Am I to assume this is MFC giving $500k to Wellingham?

[dee-luded 2,958]

Martin/pick 13 for Dawes/wellingham?

Martin > pies for Dawes + pick or player.

[Fat Tony 4,403]

It is worth paying him well over his market wage if he comes via the PSD.

But overpaying B graders like Wellingham and giving early picks would be short sighted. As a club we have no other choice but to take the long road. We need to try and build for a flag in 3-5 years at the earliest.

[dee-luded 2,958]

As are mature players. We have more than enough kids.

Sorry did I miss that bit. Yep I meant to use early picks on kids & trade experienced players in, & try to get a couple of free agents

But to me our 1st Rnd picks are off the table.

[rpfc 27,451]

It is worth paying him well over his market wage if he comes via the PSD.

But overpaying B graders like Wellingham and giving early picks would be short sighted. As a club we have no other choice but to take the long road. We need to try and build for a flag in 3-5 years at the earliest.

You don't know what we will give up for him if we get him.

We need some experienced bodies. If Neeld thinks he is worth it, then he might just be worth it.

[stuie 7,374]

Sorry did I miss that bit. Yep I meant to use early picks on kids & trade experienced players in, & try to get a couple of free agents

But to me our 1st Rnd picks are off the table.

I think everything is up for grabs for the RIGHT reimbursement. There doesn't seem to be anyone looking for a trade that would be with any of our first round picks, but you never know what will come up. Just think we need to go hard for some 24-28 year olds, particularly mids, should the deal be right.

I'm really torn about it all, we just desperately need to get better, we can't keep aiming for the future at the expense of the now, but we just need better players. Hogan is a perfect example of this, he'll be a gun, and I think there's a high chance of us taking him, but I hate the idea that we have to wait a year before he can even play.