POLL: Are you happy for us to take Viney at pick 3?

[olisik 4,060]

No use having a kph if you can't even get it out of the centre

Their is use and a need for a CHF who can go into the center and get it themselves

[Biffen 12,327]

Jimmy Toumpas is also that type of player, just faster and taller.

I've watched a bit of Toumpas playing Sanfl on You tube.

he already looks the good and"hates" a goal too.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I rate the combo in this order

1. Toumpas + Hogan

2. Viney + Toumpas

3. Viney + Hogan

Phew...

[Scipio 5,868]

I'd prefer

Toumpas + Stringer + Kennedy + Viney......

Obviously the best possible outcome but as we are the MFC, it'll never happen.

Edited September 10, 2012 by ThePassenger

[rjay 23,922]

Jimmy Toumpas is also that type of player, just faster and taller.

Toumpas is a different type of player to Jack, more an outside mid, half forward type. Really good player but Viney is Sam Mitchell like with more leg speed and the mongrel and love of the contest that Joel Selwood has. We're not going to pass on Jack.

[baysidedave 246]

would rather not but if we have to we do it, Sheedy will make sure we have to do it because he hates us.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Surely if GWS or GC wanted to play russian roulette we could say "Tampering" rather than "Pass".

Could we ask AFL to investigate why either of these clubs would compromise their lists for a lower ranked player?

I agree with you 100% as Viney isn't rated in the top 3 picks in the draft, but the AFL aren't going to crack down on their two new babies.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Tall Defence

[drdrake 3,038]

I agree with you 100% as Viney isn't rated in the top 3 picks in the draft, but the AFL aren't going to crack down on their two new babies.

The MFC would do the same if we were in GC or GWS position, it makes sense for them to bid for Viney, we have 3 first round picks, 2 in the top 4 with a Father son that is considered a top 10 pick which gives us 4 players inside would is considered the top 13. The only way they don't bid is if the MFC offer a deal, like pick 3 or 4 for Hogan and pick 13 for Caddy or Toy or Both, GWS will be thinking if we can get pick 4 from Melbourne and pick 6 from Bulldogs it gives them a strong hand in this draft, if they bid for Viney there is no chance we will give up pick 4.

[daisycutter 28,537]

The MFC would do the same if we were in GC or GWS position, it makes sense for them to bid for Viney, we have 3 first round picks, 2 in the top 4 with a Father son that is considered a top 10 pick which gives us 4 players inside would is considered the top 13. The only way they don't bid is if the MFC offer a deal, like pick 3 or 4 for Hogan and pick 13 for Caddy or Toy or Both, GWS will be thinking if we can get pick 4 from Melbourne and pick 6 from Bulldogs it gives them a strong hand in this draft, if they bid for Viney there is no chance we will give up pick 4.

Doc I think it is presumptuous to assume that the "MFC would do the same"

That may be what you think you would like them to do....not necessarily what the club would in fact do

They would face the same risks as gws/gcs and it would depend where they rated the player

It's just not all that obvious

[olisik 4,060]

The MFC would do the same if we were in GC or GWS position, it makes sense for them to bid for Viney, we have 3 first round picks, 2 in the top 4 with a Father son that is considered a top 10 pick which gives us 4 players inside would is considered the top 13. The only way they don't bid is if the MFC offer a deal, like pick 3 or 4 for Hogan and pick 13 for Caddy or Toy or Both, GWS will be thinking if we can get pick 4 from Melbourne and pick 6 from Bulldogs it gives them a strong hand in this draft, if they bid for Viney there is no chance we will give up pick 4.

So if Gary Rohan was a father-son in 2009 draft you would have bidded on him rather then take Scully?...

Don't think I would be to keen to take a risk like that.

[binman 38,111]

So if Gary Rohan was a father-son in 2009 draft you would have bidded on him rather then take Scully?...

Don't think I would be to keen to take a risk like that.

Not even in hindsight?

[drdrake 3,038]

So if Gary Rohan was a father-son in 2009 draft you would have bidded on him rather then take Scully?...

Don't think I would be to keen to take a risk like that.

No we wouldn't but that is a totally different senerio, What pick was Rohan, how many first round picks did Sydney have that year?

The facts are we have 3 first round picks and a Father son rated in the top 10, there is no way GWS and GC want the MFC to get 4 players that will be rated in the top 15 in this years draft.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Viney toumpass and hogan would be my dream draft and it is a realistic chance to happen.

[drdrake 3,038]

Viney toumpass and hogan would be my dream draft and it is a realistic chance to happen.

I Agree with this, but pick 13 may be used for a GC player to make this happen.

[olisik 4,060]

No we wouldn't but that is a totally different senerio, What pick was Rohan, how many first round picks did Sydney have that year?

The facts are we have 3 first round picks and a Father son rated in the top 10, there is no way GWS and GC want the MFC to get 4 players that will be rated in the top 15 in this years draft.

Its irrelevant in the draft what other teams get. They only care about what they can get for themselves.

Why risk losing out to stop 1 bottom placed team from taking an extra player rather then drafting the #1 kid in the country.

Your risk benefits 16 other teams in the competition also. Do you think it is worth while to hurt 1 team when you are strengthening 16 others in the same process?

Gary Rohan was pick 6 I think. So us bidding on Rohan instead of taking Scully is a similar scenario.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

The MFC would do the same if we were in GC or GWS position, it makes sense for them to bid for Viney, we have 3 first round picks, 2 in the top 4 with a Father son that is considered a top 10 pick which gives us 4 players inside would is considered the top 13. The only way they don't bid is if the MFC offer a deal, like pick 3 or 4 for Hogan and pick 13 for Caddy or Toy or Both, GWS will be thinking if we can get pick 4 from Melbourne and pick 6 from Bulldogs it gives them a strong hand in this draft, if they bid for Viney there is no chance we will give up pick 4.

If I was a GWS member and we ended up with Viney at Pick 1 because we tried to force another team to use their pick to take him and they called our bluff I would be furious!

The draft is about taking the best kid available. So unless Viney is the best player available at a certain pick, I wouldn't be bidding. And how would they explain taking Viney at Pick 1 to their Members when no one in the land has rated him in the top 3 prospects and everyone has said Whitfield is the clear no 1.

It's about improving your own list. Not trying to weaken someone elses.

[rpfc 27,475]

If I was a GWS member and we ended up with Viney at Pick 1 because we tried to force another team to use their pick to take him and they called our bluff I would be furious!

You'd be furious until he played in your jumper...

[olisik 4,060]

You'd be furious until he played in your jumper...

Id be even more furious when playing the dees and Jimmy Toumpas and Brodie Grundy are destroying us.

[drdrake 3,038]

Gary Rohan was pick 6 I think. So us bidding on Rohan instead of taking Scully is a similar scenario.

So Sydney had pick 7 and 14 as well and if we took Rohan a good chance he would still be at our club.

look back pick 1 is rarely the best AFL player to come from that draft, they may be the best kid at the time of the draft but over an AFL carreer there aren't to many that would be considered the best from that draft. Look back at our last three No1 picks Johnstone, Watts and Scully, redo those respected drafts and all three wouldn't make the top 10.

So when people talk about risking Whitfield, Grundy and Co we are risking Viney and if we let him go as a club and he turns out a better player than Whitfiled and Grundy which he has the commitment, attitude and ability to do so, how would this make our club look, it would be extremely dire.

[olisik 4,060]

So Sydney had pick 7 and 14 as well and if we took Rohan a good chance he would still be at our club.

look back pick 1 is rarely the best AFL player to come from that draft, they may be the best kid at the time of the draft but over an AFL carreer there aren't to many that would be considered the best from that draft. Look back at our last three No1 picks Johnstone, Watts and Scully, redo those respected drafts and all three wouldn't make the top 10.

So when people talk about risking Whitfield, Grundy and Co we are risking Viney and if we let him go as a club and he turns out a better player than Whitfiled and Grundy which he has the commitment, attitude and ability to do so, how would this make our club look, it would be extremely dire.

Just because we f up draft picks doesn't mean other clubs do.

Look at other #1s, Deledio, Riewoldt, Goddard, Murphy...

[rpfc 27,475]

Id be even more furious when playing the dees and Jimmy Toumpas and Brodie Grundy are destroying us.

Well, if those two players are as good as you say they are then we will have one of them whether or not Viney is taken at 3.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

You'd be furious until he played in your jumper...

I'm not saying that Vney wont be a great player. I'm saying he's not rated in the top 3 in this draft.

The question was put to me that if GWS or GC nominated Viney at Pick 1 or 2, (meaning that they'd take him at that pick if FS wasn't an option for us) is that draft tampering considering no one has rated him in the top 3 and only a handful of experts have him in the top 5.

My response was that in my opinion that yes it is draft tampering and that I'd be furious if I were a GWS member and we missed out on Whitfield and got Viney.

You use the argument that not many No 1 draft picks turn out to be the no 1 player from that draft and the order changes when you look at it a few years later. But that works both ways. What if GWS take Viney at 1 who turns out to be a Jake King and GC get Whitfield at 2 who turns out to be a Chris Judd. That's why you should always take the best player available and I'd be flthy if I were a GWS member and we didn't get Whitfield because our coach was more concerned with playing Russian Roulette with a cellar dweller club then looking at the big picture.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'm not saying that Vney wont be a great player. I'm saying he's not rated in the top 3 in this draft.

HTF do you know ?

Where would you now rate Fyfe, Shuey, Redden, Beams, Sloane, Rockliff in their respective drafts ? Who's worth what won't be known for years.

But I do know that he's what we need. I do know that he's dominated every competition he's been in since the age of 9. I do know that he was put up age groups because he was hurting kids. I do know that he played in a first 18 premiership team when he was in year 9. I do know that he captained SA at under 16 level and is considered a leader. I do know that he's been considered a likely top 10 pick for a couple of years.

He's an inside mid with pace, a good sidestep and considered by many junior watches the hardest inside mid they've ever seen. Wallace says he's the best inside mid he's seen in the last 5 years he's been studying junior footy. And another avid junior footy watcher who rates him the third best talent in the draft says, "He is one of those types where you want him on your team and his competitiveness and hardness rates up there and in my view exceeds that of Joel Selwood and Luke Hodge."

And I have no doubt he'll be a Dee and we're lucky to have him. Dominant inside mids are the most valuable mids in the game. No-one wants to give up pick 3 for him, but we will if we have to.

Yet some of you who no doubt want to play "hard ball" argue over whether to keep Cook, Gysberts, Petterd, etc. Some of the stupidity on this site is nothing short of mindbogglingly breathtaking.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We've made our "fair share" of mistakes in some previous drafts but this won't be one of them.

We will select him, he will play for us and he will be an absolute star of the competition. If we get him as a second round pick we should take out a tattslotto ticket as well.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

HTF do you know ?

Can find me anywhere that Viney has been rated in the top 3, not top 10. That answers itself really.

Think you've missed the point I'm making Ben-Hur, I'm not saying Viney wont be any good and I'm not saying he wont become the greatest player ever to play the game, he very well could. I'm saying he's currently not rated in the top 3 U18 year olds in the land at this point in time. And neither were any of Fyfe, Shuey, Redden, Beams, Sloane, Rockliff in their respective drafts, hence the draft order they fell in.

I'm not talking about where they'll be rated in years to come, and how they develop, I'm talking about now on exposed form which is what players are drafted on.

If you'll care to actually read the posts and not just go off half cocked you'll see I rate Viney highly and think he'll be a great player and I hope he comes to Demonland. All I've said is to not be suprised if Melbourne did pass if it came down to it. To quote Cam Schwab from one of the coaches information session I attended "We wont be dictated to by Sheeds".

And for the record if you read my posts you'll see that I think we should trade Petterd & Gysberts and delist Cook so keep the abuse in check!

Edit: Oh and by the way, I think we'll get Viney in the 2nd round after sorting out a pre arranged deal with GWS & GC before FS nominations.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Tall Defence