Blue Sky

[thaipantsman 180]

Step away from the bong!

No, & even if I did think that, I don't see how going over past mistakes helps.

No agreed it won't help. Seems by your comment there is some regrets in relation to Bailey's sacking. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

[thaipantsman 180]

Before the latest round of the Cloke saga kicked off there were rumours we were interested in Quentin Lynch as a free agent. Obviously Neeld wants two gorilla forwards & probably doesn't rate Watts, Martin, Fitzpatrick or Cooks prospects of fulfilling that CHF role - at least in the short term. He's recruited other big bodied players like Sellar & Williams.

Jesse Hogan is a KPF prospect in the mini draft but the cost may be to high for MN's liking. Q-Ball is a tad old for mine, Cloke is the priority but there isn't much else out there that would come easily IMO. We wouldn't have to give up much for guys like Jesse White or Aaron Cornelius but then we may not be getting much. We could go to the state leagues for a Beau Wilkes type or try to fast track Williams next season & develop from within. Getting CHF right in the long term is key for the club.

Small forwards are more pressing though; Matt Campbell from North is one we should enquire about IMO or again we could draft some quality out of the state leagues like St Kilda did with Saad & Milera or we did with Davey in 2003. Improved ground level presence and pressure will stop us going for 40 minutes of game time without scoring.

IMO

Agree on a plan to fast track Williams. He looks promising. I think we have enough Saad and Milera types. Introduce another key forward. Someone that resembles either Cloke or the Hulk and our existing mids and small forwards will lift for sure. Note must be a player that can actually hold a mark and kick a ball not simply split packs and punch the ball away i.e. Sellar.

A good example was the Essendon game. Clark far from dominated but his sheer presence as a target lifted the entire team. Melbourne were just starting to get some steam up.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Before the latest round of the Cloke saga kicked off there were rumours we were interested in Quentin Lynch as a free agent. Obviously Neeld wants two gorilla forwards & probably doesn't rate Watts, Martin, Fitzpatrick or Cooks prospects of fulfilling that CHF role - at least in the short term. He's recruited other big bodied players like Sellar & Williams.

Jesse Hogan is a KPF prospect in the mini draft but the cost may be to high for MN's liking. Q-Ball is a tad old for mine, Cloke is the priority but there isn't much else out there that would come easily IMO. We wouldn't have to give up much for guys like Jesse White or Aaron Cornelius but then we may not be getting much. We could go to the state leagues for a Beau Wilkes type or try to fast track Williams next season & develop from within. Getting CHF right in the long term is key for the club.

Small forwards are more pressing though; Matt Campbell from North is one we should enquire about IMO or again we could draft some quality out of the state leagues like St Kilda did with Saad & Milera or we did with Davey in 2003. Improved ground level presence and pressure will stop us going for 40 minutes of game time without scoring.

It wouldn't bother me paying a high price for this kid. There would be no waiting for him to develop a body to play AFL footy. He is ready made.

[Johnny Karate 559]

It wouldn't bother me paying a high price for this kid. There would be no waiting for him to develop a body to play AFL footy. He is ready made.

I haven't had a chance to watch any junior footy this year but do read up on it. It seems Hogan & Martin will be the two minidraft kids. Ideally MFC needs to fix its midfield first but it's clear Mark Neeld wants a quality key forward to back up Clark. It's encouraging that you say Jesse Hogan is AFL ready, in the past we have selected skinny talls (Watts & Cook) who certainly weren't AFL ready. Is he Jack Darling type? If so I think we should roll the dice & bid #3 for the mini-draft as it would net us Martin/Hogan, Toumpas/O'Rourke/Stringer/Wines, pick 13 & JV as a second rounder.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I haven't had a chance to watch any junior footy this year but do read up on it. It seems Hogan & Martin will be the two minidraft kids. Ideally MFC needs to fix its midfield first but it's clear Mark Neeld wants a quality key forward to back up Clark. It's encouraging that you say Jesse Hogan is AFL ready, in the past we have selected skinny talls (Watts & Cook) who certainly weren't AFL ready. Is he Jack Darling type? If so I think we should roll the dice & bid #3 for the mini-draft as it would net us Martin/Hogan, Toumpas/O'Rourke/Stringer/Wines, pick 13 & JV as a second rounder.

It's like being in a lolly shop and not knowing what to choose.

Jack Martin looks like he'll be a superstar to me. He reminds me of Michael Long and a taller Steven Hill. I watched the u18 championships again on the weekend and I've rarely seen a young player that has such obvious gifts. But while watching it again I also took note of Hogan. The first time I watched Hogan he looked good, but I wasn't overly excited, but on a second viewing I really liked what I saw. He's big, strong, aggressive and agile. He reminded me of Hurley. He'll be a great pick-up for whoever gets him, although he needs to work on his kicking for goal. We're desperate for Martin's tricks and speed, but we also need Hogan's qualities in our forward-line. It's doubtful we'll get Cloke, so out of the two I reluctantly lean towards Hogan. Apparently we're linked to Martin, so I'm not sure the club agrees. O'Meara went for pick 4 last year and I'd expect that type of pick would be needed again and I don't think we can afford to use such an early pick on a player that can't play for 12 months. We need an injection, or three, of class now.

Terry Wallace also made an interesting point yesterday on SEN. He wondered why we went for two smaller frames in Scully and Trengove when Martin and Morabito were both on offer. He could understand going for one, but thought we may have mixed it up a bit. He also said that he'd always err on the side of the bigger body. Supposedly he asked his recruiters why they went for Deledio and Tambling, rather than mixing it up with a tall and a small, such as Franklin, or Roughead. I suspect he's perhaps formulated his views more recently, afterall we all learn though experience.

The reason I mention this is that in the OP I stated I liked Toumpas and O'Rourke, when in reality they're very similar types. He's got me thinking that perhaps Toumpas and Wines is the way to go. Wines being the big body. Hopefully we'll have Viney's small/big body, but perhaps we need to mix up picks 3 and 4. It does make sense. I prefer quality inside mids to quality outside mids, but I do recognise our need for pace. But out of the two I reckon pace on the outside is easier to find. Zaharakis is a really good player that has been missed by Essendon, but his outside class and pace isn't as difficult to find as a Scotty Thompson, or Jobe Watson. Really good big bodied inside mids are worth their weight in gold.

I also noted Garlett again. Picks 3 and 4 are probably too high, but he has the most natural talent in the draft imo. He was kicked out of the AIS, so clearly he's had issues and lacks leadership, but if he gets his act together at AFL level he'll be a star.

I remember saying that it was crucial that we got our picks right in 2008 and 2009. And it was, as we're seeing now. But just as true is the importance of our decisions this time around.

[The Chazz 4,077]

It's like being in a lolly shop and not knowing what to choose.

Jack Martin looks like he'll be a superstar to me. He reminds me of Michael Long and a taller Steven Hill. I watched the u18 championships again on the weekend and I've rarely seen a young player that has such obvious gifts. But while watching it again I also took note of Hogan. The first time I watched Hogan he looked good, but I wasn't overly excited, but on a second viewing I really liked what I saw. He's big, strong, aggressive and agile. He reminded me of Hurley. He'll be a great pick-up for whoever gets him, although he needs to work on his kicking for goal. We're desperate for Martin's tricks and speed, but we also need Hogan's qualities in our forward-line. It's doubtful we'll get Cloke, so out of the two I reluctantly lean towards Hogan. Apparently we're linked to Martin, so I'm not sure the club agrees. O'Meara went for pick 4 last year and I'd expect that type of pick would be needed again and I don't think we can afford to use such an early pick on a player that can't play for 12 months. We need an injection, or three, of class now.

Terry Wallace also made an interesting point yesterday on SEN. He wondered why we went for two smaller frames in Scully and Trengove when Martin and Morabito were both on offer. He could understand going for one, but thought we may have mixed it up a bit. He also said that he'd always err on the side of the bigger body. Supposedly he asked his recruiters why they went for Deledio and Tambling, rather than mixing it up with a tall and a small, such as Franklin, or Roughead. I suspect he's perhaps formulated his views more recently, afterall we all learn though experience.

The reason I mention this is that in the OP I stated I liked Toumpas and O'Rourke, when in reality they're very similar types. He's got me thinking that perhaps Toumpas and Wines is the way to go. Wines being the big body. Hopefully we'll have Viney's small/big body, but perhaps we need to mix up picks 3 and 4. It does make sense. I prefer quality inside mids to quality outside mids, but I do recognise our need for pace. But out of the two I reckon pace on the outside is easier to find. Zaharakis is a really good player that has been missed by Essendon, but his outside class and pace isn't as difficult to find as a Scotty Thompson, or Jobe Watson. Really good big bodied inside mids are worth their weight in gold.

I also noted Garlett again. Picks 3 and 4 are probably too high, but he has the most natural talent in the draft imo. He was kicked out of the AIS, so clearly he's had issues and lacks leadership, but if he gets his act together at AFL level he'll be a star.

I remember saying that it was crucial that we got our picks right in 2008 and 2009. And it was, as we're seeing now. But just as true is the importance of our decisions this time around.

I agree that Scully was a smaller frame, but I wouldn't really be calling Trengove a small frame. Yes, he does weigh less and is shorter than Martin and Morabito, but I wouldn't be calling JT small. And again, he was a clear top 2 pick with Scully, with a small distance between them and Martin. Of course, in hindsight, Martin is probably the better of the Top 3 at this stage in their careers.

While GC paid pick 4 (and a compo pick?) for O'Meara, O'Meara was totued a potential Top 3 pick in a "proper" draft anyway. Can someone please tell me where Jack Martin and Jesse Hogan would rate in a "normal" draft? I'm not totally against the idea of picking up one of the 17yo picks, but I don't want us to be giving the same as what GC gave up for O'Meara, if the player we are getting isn't in that same category. I'll be easily convinced, but I just haven't heard where this years 17yo's rate compared to the rest of the draft pool.

[Viney12 196]

It's more of a concept team and a direction Melbourne have to take rather than an actual starting line up.

Ben Hur is the only guy to actually put up a blue print of Melbourne's future while carefully articulating why this is so. The Magners, Sellars, Couches are gap fillers, all try bloody hard but were Blunders by the Neeld Admin. BH has a balance of youth, speed, bigs and smalls and sure it's a young team but that's good? right?

Silly polls advocating MASS CULLS and" I believe in Neeld" without any reason to believe and Pro Neeld Polls don't tell us much. Would rather read a well articulated piece as to the direction Melbourne should go and congrats to BH!

Continually bagging out on players we are meant to support is not only malicious but also disrespectful. Sure I'm not happy Melbourne rushed to appoint Neeld but crap happens and will move on. The guys no Moron and maybe he can warm into the job. Hasn't shown anything yet but hey...it's coming.

Tonatopia makes some excellent points in reference to our current crop of players...browse back and see what he has to say.....

Clark

Watts

Jones

Grimes

McKenzie

Sylvia

Moloney

Davey

Green

Rivers

Jamar

Jurrah

Frawley

Trengove

Howe

Garland

Bartram

Tapscott

Viney

Brad Green

IMO all these guys should stay on next year and I hope they do! Get Maxxy Gawn back to team up with Russian and away we go with BH's re-structured mids (would be sad to lose Sylvia/Moloney though BH)...ok.....bla bbl a......hand it over to you guys to rip the shreds off me!!!!! hehe

But bagging the coach is ok, hey?

[Dr. Mubutu 855]

Jesse Hogan is a KPF prospect in the mini draft but the cost may be to high for MN's liking. Q-Ball is a tad old for mine, Cloke is the priority but there isn't much else out there that would come easily IMO. We wouldn't have to give up much for guys like Jesse White or Aaron Cornelius but then we may not be getting much.

Would love to get Cornelius, but I don't think he's all that 'big-bodied'. Perhaps I'm just being fooled because he plays in a forwardline with Jonathan Brown......

[Johnny Karate 559]

With so much crap clogging the boards may as well bump a good thread.

My blue sky scenario:

Draft: Grundy, Toumpas, Garlett & Viney

Recruit/Trade in: Cloke, T Banfield, L Greenwood

Moloney & Jamar to return to form. Clark & Jurrah injury free as well as Gysberts & Taggert to be most improved at the club.

Team

B: Greenwood - Frawley - Garland

HB: Rivers - T McDonald - Grimes

C: Trengove - Moloney - Viney

HF: Howe - Cloke - Watts

F: Banfield - Clark - Jurrah

R: Jamar - McKenzie - Jones

I: Sylvia - Gysberts - Taggert - Garlett

Depth: Martin, Gawn, Grundy, Toumpas, Blease, Strauss, Nicholson, Sellar, Evans, Tapscott, Davey, Davis, Bail, Bartram, Tynan, Magner

[olisik 4,060]

With so much crap clogging the boards may as well bump a good thread.

My blue sky scenario:

Draft: Grundy, Toumpas, Garlett & Viney

Recruit/Trade in: Cloke, T Banfield, L Greenwood

Moloney & Jamar to return to form. Clark & Jurrah injury free as well as Gysberts & Taggert to be most improved at the club.

Team

B: Greenwood - Frawley - Garland

HB: Rivers - T McDonald - Grimes

C: Trengove - Moloney - Viney

HF: Howe - Cloke - Watts

F: Banfield - Clark - Jurrah

R: Jamar - McKenzie - Jones

I: Sylvia - Gysberts - Taggert - Garlett

Depth: Martin, Gawn, Grundy, Toumpas, Blease, Strauss, Nicholson, Sellar, Evans, Tapscott, Davey, Davis, Bail, Bartram, Tynan, Magner

I would swap Taggert with either Blease, Grundy or Toumpas their. I would also take McKenzie out of the middle as I think by having a tagger you are admitting defeat before the game even starts. Evans would fit in there nicely.

[Dr. Mubutu 855]

I would also take McKenzie out of the middle as I think by having a tagger you are admitting defeat before the game even starts.

Just as Geelong did when they played Cameron Ling?

[Pennant St Dee 13,242]

With the right people in & the right people shown the door. The club can turn around quickly. 1998 proved that.

Would love to have Lyon, Viney, Stinger, Woey, Farmer, Schwarter & Neiter waiting in the wings. Had we got over North in the Prelim it was ours

[Guest José Mourinho]

My bluesky scenario:

Pick 3: Jimmy Toumpas

Pick 4: trade for Jack Martin U/17 pick

Pick 13: Ben Kennedy

Pick 23: Jack Viney

Free agent signing: Chris Knights

Trade in: Koby Stevens

OR

Pick 3: Grundy

Pick 7: Lachie Plowman (or O'Rourke)

Pick 4 & 13: Trade for Boak & pick 7

Pick 23: Jack Viney

Free agent signing: Travis Cloak

[Hannibal 5,814]

If Hawthorn win the flag this year they'll be doing it on the back of roughly 8 core players. Those players being Mitchell, Sewell, Franklin, Rioli, Lewis, Birchall, Hodge, and Roughead. And those same 8 were major players in winning their flag in 2008. About half their side has changed since their last flag, which shows how you can keep turning your list over, but you need a solid core that determine your fortunes in a particular era.

In 2008 their top 6 statistically were:

Hodge

Franklin

Mitchell

Sewell

Young

Lewis

In 2012 their top 6 statistically are:

Mitchell

Franklin

Lewis

Sewell

Roughead

Birchall

The first 4 are the same four years later and the other 2 (Roughead and Birchall) formed part of their top 10 four years earlier.

Clearly there are other good players now, .i.e. Whitecross, Suckling, Shiel, Smith, while four years ago there was Crawford, Bateman, Dew, etc. And Rioli is better now than four years earlier. But if you're able to establish a strong core of 8-10 players you can build a finals worthy team, as they'll make others around them better.

It also shows that you need stars. Franklin, Rioli, Mitchell and Hodge form a nucleus that you could build any team around. If you can develop a few players at your club to become elite and surround them with a few other bona fide A graders you'll compete well at the highest level. Last night Hawthorn had Puopolo, Murphy, Stratton, Hale, Schoenmakers, Savage and a couple of other serviceable players, but no world-beaters. In my view they form a list of what becomes "interchangeable players".

I'm comforted by this because I know that you don't have to get everything right, you just need to nail some of it. We need to establish a core of 8 -10 players that can elevate their game to A grade status and have a few of them become elite. And another comforting fact is that Hawthorn really only have two genuine A grade mids in Mitchell and Sewell, who were both sensational last night. They're both quality inside mids, which once again proves to me that they're the most important mids in the competition, which is why we'll take Viney. Lewis has spent more time forward this year and Hodge is a real old-fashioned utility. Outside run comes from Smith, Breust, Whitecross, Savage, Rioli and other rotations. Shiel has been doing more of a lock down role.

I did a similar exercise for Geelong's premiership teams in 2007 and 2011. Of their top 6 players statistically in those two premiership years 5 of the 6 were the same. And 7 of the top 10 were the same. It's about getting a quality core and they too had a few that elevated themselves to star status. Obviously a player like Scarlett is down the stats sheet due to the role he plays, but the basic analysis is sound.

So who are presently on our list that could be considered core if we're to one day become a serious side ? It should be players like Clark, Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Trengove, and imo Viney, but the challenge is to develop these players - and others - already on the list to become A graders. I reckon this draft period will be crucial to our chances of developing such a list. But it can be done.

It's interesting studying the makeup of the lists of this year's finalists. They'll have a core group, but in the main the rest become interchangeable. They're good solid citizens, but not absolutely pivotal to their teams fortunes. They may be pivotal in isolated games, or even in a year, but they're not absolutely required for on-going success. This is the domain of the stars and genuine A graders.

I'm looking forward to watching our list evolve over the next couple of years and believe that if a few things go our way can still build a formidable side.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[monoccular 17,439]

If Hawthorn win the flag this year they'll be doing it on the back of roughly 8 core players. Those players being Mitchell, Sewell, Franklin, Rioli, Lewis, Birchall, Hodge, and Roughead. And those same 8 were major players in winning their flag in 2008. About half their side has changed since their last flag, which shows how you can keep turning your list over, but you need a solid core that determine your fortunes in a particular era.

In 2008 their top 6 statistically were:

Hodge

Franklin

Mitchell

Sewell

Young

Lewis

In 2012 their top 6 statistically are:

Mitchell

Franklin

Lewis

Sewell

Roughead

Birchall

The first 4 are the same four years later and the other 2 (Roughead and Birchall) formed part of their top 10 four years earlier.

Clearly there are other good players now, .i.e. Whitecross, Suckling, Shiel, Smith, while four years ago there was Crawford, Bateman, Dew, etc. And Rioli is better now than four years earlier. But if you're able to establish a strong core of 8-10 players you can build a finals worthy team, as they'll make others around them better.

It also shows that you need stars. Franklin, Rioli, Mitchell and Hodge form a nucleus that you could build any team around. If you can develop a few players at your club to become elite and surround them with a few other bona fide A graders you'll compete well at the highest level. Last night Hawthorn had Puopolo, Murphy, Stratton, Hale, Schoenmakers, Savage and a couple of other serviceable players, but no world-beaters. In my view they form a list of what becomes "interchangeable players".

I'm comforted by this because I know that you don't have to get everything right, you just need to nail some of it. We need to establish a core of 8 -10 players that can elevate their game to A grade status and have a few of them become elite. And another comforting fact is that Hawthorn really only have two genuine A grade mids in Mitchell and Sewell, who were both sensational last night. They're both quality inside mids, which once again proves to me that they're the most important mids in the competition, which is why we'll take Viney. Lewis has spent more time forward this year and Hodge is a real old-fashioned utility. Outside run comes from Smith, Breaust, Whitecross, Savage, Rioli and other rotations. Shiel has been doing more of a lock down role.

I did a similar exercise for Geelong's premiership teams in 2007 and 2011. Of their top 6 players statistically in those two premiership years 5 of the 6 were the same. And 7 of the top 10 were the same. It's about getting a quality core and they too had a few that elevated themselves to start status. Obviously a player like Scarlett is down the stats sheet due to the role he plays, but the basic analysis is sound.

So who are presently on our list that could be considered core if we're to one day become a serious side ? It should be players like Clark, Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Trengove, and imo Viney, but the challenge is to develop these players - and others - already on the list to become A graders. I reckon this draft period will be crucial to our chances of developing such a list. But it can be done.

It's interesting studying the makeup of the lists of this year's finalists. They'll have a core group, but in the main the rest become interchangeable. They're good solid citizens, but not absolutely pivotal to their teams fortunes. They may be pivotal in isolated games, or even in a year, but they're not absolutely required for on-going success. This is the domain of the stars and genuine A graders.

I'm looking forward to watching our list evolve over the next couple of years and believe that if a few things go our way can still build a formidable side.

Interesting analysis, Ben, and surely at least some cause for a bit if optimism.

The Hawks, and the Cats, have that solid core of uncompromising players on which to build - we lack that at present but I have faith that Neeld, Missen and Craig are the best options to advance our cause in this essential area.

[Clark_Kent 315]

I believe we just need to build a good TEAM. Not just hope star players will come on.

If we can build a huge emphasis on team play we will win more than we lose.

It's not always about talent sometimes it's just about working for your teammates.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I believe we just need to build a good TEAM. Not just hope star players will come on.

If we can build a huge emphasis on team play we will win more than we lose.

It's not always about talent sometimes it's just about working for your teammates.

I absolutely agree.

As long as you're not interested in winning a flag.

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

I believe we just need to build a good TEAM. Not just hope star players will come on.

If we can build a huge emphasis on team play we will win more than we lose.

It's not always about talent sometimes it's just about working for your teammates.

Your right. Nought Melbourne have built a TEAM that will win more than it loses, but i see them getting smashed tomorrow.

In September you need stars & excellent foot soldiers who are fit and mentally fresh.

[Adam The God 30,291]

This thread is purely for the blue sky junkies, of which I'm not always a member, but I need to dream. Also, despite this season being our annus horribilis, the following prospects aren't completely without merit. I consider this season over come grand final day and thus the curse of this season will also be over - just in time for trades/drafts. And I'm sick of talking and reading about tanking. Club politics isn't really my thing, even though I have contempt for some previous key stake holders.

In another thread I've shied away from getting Cloke purely because of the cost, but today I'm going to embrace the idea on the basis that the list management team headed by Tim Harrington have carefully planned for free agency and can manage such a "purchase". I'm also going to assume that we get Viney in the second round.

Possibilities:

1/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), Caddy (Gold Coast), pick 3, pick 4, Viney

Out - Sylvia, pick 13 to Gold Coast

2/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), pick 3, pick 4, pick 13, Viney

Naturally this thread isn't concerned with likely delistings or later picks/acquisitions, just pointy end picks and substantial ways of improving the list. The beauty of getting Cloke is that he costs nothing other than the wage.

Team:

Def: Nicholson, Frawley, Rivers

H/B: Grimes, Tom McDonald, Garland

Cen: Caddy, Viney, Toumpas

H/F: Watts, Cloke, Howe

For: Jurrah, Clark, Blease

Rucks: Jamar, Trengove, Jones

I/C: Martin, O'Rourke, McKenzie, Gysberts

New: Cloke, Caddy, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke.

While not perfect and still with room to improve, this is pretty much a spud free zone. You don't see names such as Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, or teases such as Moloney and Sylvia. It also doesn't allow for others such as Taggert, Tynan, Strauss, Tapscott ...

Toumpas and O'Rourke are very highly rated inside and outside contested ball winning mids with pace and elite kicks. Unlike Trengove they're quick and unlike Scully they're great kicks and will be stronger bodied. Toumpas captained SA in the u/18 national championships. Both are predicted to be top 10 draft picks. Most rate Toumpas top 5 and TAC Future Stars on Channel 9 ranked O'Rourke as they're second best prospect. Viney and Toumpas will add instant character and leadership qualities. Trengove and Grimes will welcome young leaders and mids of their ilk. Also, rather than being 17 year olds like Flower and Healy, or even schoolboy draftees of more recent times such as Andrew Walker, Callan Ward, Dangerfield and Jack Watts, these players will play nearly all year as 19 year olds. They'll not be 'A' graders overnight, but they'll impact our group with their class immediately. Note: all three of these guys have better credentials than the highly rated Toby Greene of GWS and he's averaging 26 disposals in his first year. He was a teammate with Viney at Oakleigh Chargers and another first round draft pick only last year.

Every single supporter knows there are no guarantees with drafting, but assuming we draft well it's like having Beams, Shuey and Selwood walking into your club. I've seen Viney and his approach to football and the only other mid of recent times that I can liken him to is Joel Selwood. He has the same manic attack on the ball.

We lack pace, but straight away we'd gain three young mids with pace. Look at the spine, or goal to goal line: Frawley, McDonald, Viney, Cloke and Clark. It has the potential to be one of the best in the league. Look at the forward-line. With the addition of Cloke I've put Watts back into the forward-line. The two best defenders go to Cloke and Clark, but the opposition have still got to cover Jurrah and Howe as other agile marking options, plus a 196cm Jack Watts. We still need a quality crumbing forward, but I've put Blease in there for now. That is a ridiculous forward-line to match up on.

The back-line is a little top heavy, even though Garland and Frawley are good at playing on 'smalls'; and we need an elite kick out of defence, such as Suckling, or Guerra, but it's got the makings of a decent back-line.

If you can't sway Caddy to come to the club then pick 13 may be retained and a dynamic and fast little player such as Ben Kennedy may still be around. He's a terric small with a booming kick who plays midfield and kicks goals.

A midfield in 3-4 years of Jones, Caddy, Trengove, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke and possibly Gysberts provides a mixture of pace and hardness, and has the ingredients to be the envy of the competition. Obviously we may not choose Toumpas, or O'Rourke, but that's the type of quality that will be on offer.

Forget Cloke's poor year. He's a gun key forward and we've seen enough to know that he and Clark would be a nightmare for the oppostion, especially with quality flankers around them. Supporters mustn't give up hope that we can draft well. At the top end this draft is quality, especially for midfielders. As Terry Wallace said on the weekend, we have a chance to do what the Saints did in 2000 when they picked up Hamill from Carlton, Gehrig from West Coast, and Riewoldt and Koschitzke with draft picks.

Current first round mids/utilities gained from drafts: Hodge, Ball, Dal Santo, Hayes, Goddard, Wells, Judd, Murphy, Griffen, Cooney, Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Selwood, Bartel, Deledio, Cotchin, Stanton, Thompson, Dangerfield ... Just look at the names. All of these players were first round draft picks. And you can add 'in demand' players such as Boak, Caddy and our own Nathan Jones as other first rounders. This year there will be players of similar quality and we have a chance to get two (three if we use pick 13), plus Viney if he comes in the second round.

The possibilities to change the course of this club are enormous. Do other supporters share my belief that this club can be transformed quicker than a lot of the general public, or media commentators envisage ? Btw, I know I'm not the only supporter with this type of hope. I'm just one of many. But just as certain there will be some that consider such blue sky scenarios only fit for the land of the fairies.

If we can't get Cloke we need some other mature key forward to improve our structures and to help Clark. I'm excited by the opportunities ahead.

*If mods would prefer this thread on the draft board naturally they'll move it. I posted here because it's a mixture of blue sky with our core list, as well as drafts/trades.

I enjoy these types of posts. Blue Sky dreamer apparently. I'd say I'd only make two list changes from what you've proposed here. One is a forced change and that is getting a forward to replace LJ. Easier said than done. The second is trading in someone like a Clinton Young to replace Nicholson. A better decision maker and a better kick. Currently Nicholson offers us a little bit of muscle, but mostly run. His disposal is a little bit Simon Buckleyesque.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

I agree that Scully was a smaller frame, but I wouldn't really be calling Trengove a small frame. Yes, he does weigh less and is shorter than Martin and Morabito, but I wouldn't be calling JT small. And again, he was a clear top 2 pick with Scully, with a small distance between them and Martin. Of course, in hindsight, Martin is probably the better of the Top 3 at this stage in their careers.

While GC paid pick 4 (and a compo pick?) for O'Meara, O'Meara was totued a potential Top 3 pick in a "proper" draft anyway. Can someone please tell me where Jack Martin and Jesse Hogan would rate in a "normal" draft? I'm not totally against the idea of picking up one of the 17yo picks, but I don't want us to be giving the same as what GC gave up for O'Meara, if the player we are getting isn't in that same category. I'll be easily convinced, but I just haven't heard where this years 17yo's rate compared to the rest of the draft pool.

By Knightmare :

Power Rankings for 2013 – to give an indication of where I rank these eligible for the minidraft against those others in next year’s draft:

1. Thomas Boyd (VIC - KPF)

2. James Aish (SA - MID)

3. Luke McDonald (VIC - UTIL – NM F/S) – Minidraft eligible but likely will choose not to enter due to F/S.

4. Jesse Hogan (WA - KPF) – Minidraft eligible

5. Matt Crouch (VIC - MID) – Minidraft eligible

6. Jack Martin (WA - UTIL) – Minidraft eligible

7. Josh Kelly (VIC - MID) – Minidraft eligible

8. Jack Billings (VIC - FWD)

9. Matt Scharenberg (SA – MID/DEF)

10.James Tsitas (VIC – Mid)

11. Luke Dunstan (SA - Fwd)

12. Trent Dumont (SA - Mid)

13. Guy Dickson (VIC - FWD)

14. Willy Rioli (NT – Fwd)

15. Eli Templeton (TAS - Mid)

16. Ben Lennon (VIC - Fwd)

17. Cameron Conlon (VIC – KPF/Ruck)

18. Dominic Sheed (WA – Mid)

19. Dwayne Wilson (SA – Mid)

20. Christian Salem (VIC - Fwd)

21. Billy Hartung (VIC - Mid)

22. Aaron Christensen (VIC – Mid/Fwd)

23. Aaron Heppell (VIC – Mid/Def)

24. Jacob Coniglio (WA – Mid)

25. Luke Reynolds (SA – Ruck/KPP)

26. Sam Garstone (WA – KPP)

27. Nicholas Bourke (VIC - Mid)

28. Lewis Taylor (VIC – Mid)

29. Isaac Conway (Brisbane – QLD – Mid)

30. Elijah Edwards (Collingwood - NSW/ACT – Mid)

Minidraft (2012):

1. Jack Martin (WA – Mid/Fwd)

Height: 185cm, Weight: 72kg, DOB: 29/01/1995

Recruited from: Claremont

Style: Dale Thomas

Player comparison:

Range: 1-10

Profile: Martin is a neat little prospect and really stands out with his great run and carry. Has great pace and uses it well through the midfield and is a guy you really notice. One thing that has impressed me with Martin is his explosive sidestep, can just explode off to the side and it isn’t just straight line pace. Probably more of an outside player but is an above average stoppage player and clearance work very reasonable for someone so slight of build which is encouraging. Has a great leap on him and can take a high flying mark and also for his size is a very strong contested mark. Has also shown nice ability to read the ball and regularly gets intercept marks off opposition kicks. After a mark is willing to move the ball on quickly and in a team with quick ball movement could really thrive. Lively tackler. Skills very neat and pin point. Finishing ability around goal good. Also really like his composure with ball in hand and generally uses it really well.

Why:

2. Jesse Hogan (WA – KPF)

Height: 193cm, Weight: 97kg, DOB: 12/02/1995

Recruited from: Claremont

Style: Jonathan Brown

Player comparison:

Range: 1-10

Profile: Strong contested marking forward and is a real presence and target you can kick to. Also has excellent ability to take a 1v1 mark and this seems a real feature of his game. Reads it well in the air and off the players boot. Has the ability to crash packs and bring it to ground and seems to enjoy the physical side of the game. Physically developed for his age and already a very high level key forward. By foot is a good field kick and can find a leading target. Will need to work on set shot goal kicking routine – just doesn’t look as fluid as you’d ideally like to see and as a result his set shot goal kicking seems to suffer.

Why:

[Brian Wilson 331]

By Knightmare :

Power Rankings for 2013 – to give an indication of where I rank these eligible for the minidraft against those others in next year’s draft:

1. Thomas Boyd (VIC - KPF)

2. James Aish (SA - MID)

3. Luke McDonald (VIC - UTIL – NM F/S) – Minidraft eligible but likely will choose not to enter due to F/S.

4. Jesse Hogan (WA - KPF) – Minidraft eligible

5. Matt Crouch (VIC - MID) – Minidraft eligible

6. Jack Martin (WA - UTIL) – Minidraft eligible

7. Josh Kelly (VIC - MID) – Minidraft eligible

8. Jack Billings (VIC - FWD)

9. Matt Scharenberg (SA – MID/DEF)

10.James Tsitas (VIC – Mid)

11. Luke Dunstan (SA - Fwd)

12. Trent Dumont (SA - Mid)

13. Guy Dickson (VIC - FWD)

14. Willy Rioli (NT – Fwd)

15. Eli Templeton (TAS - Mid)

16. Ben Lennon (VIC - Fwd)

17. Cameron Conlon (VIC – KPF/Ruck)

18. Dominic Sheed (WA – Mid)

19. Dwayne Wilson (SA – Mid)

20. Christian Salem (VIC - Fwd)

21. Billy Hartung (VIC - Mid)

22. Aaron Christensen (VIC – Mid/Fwd)

23. Aaron Heppell (VIC – Mid/Def)

24. Jacob Coniglio (WA – Mid)

25. Luke Reynolds (SA – Ruck/KPP)

26. Sam Garstone (WA – KPP)

27. Nicholas Bourke (VIC - Mid)

28. Lewis Taylor (VIC – Mid)

29. Isaac Conway (Brisbane – QLD – Mid)

30. Elijah Edwards (Collingwood - NSW/ACT – Mid)

Minidraft (2012):

1. Jack Martin (WA – Mid/Fwd)

Height: 185cm, Weight: 72kg, DOB: 29/01/1995

Recruited from: Claremont

Style: Dale Thomas

Player comparison:

Range: 1-10

Profile: Martin is a neat little prospect and really stands out with his great run and carry. Has great pace and uses it well through the midfield and is a guy you really notice. One thing that has impressed me with Martin is his explosive sidestep, can just explode off to the side and it isn’t just straight line pace. Probably more of an outside player but is an above average stoppage player and clearance work very reasonable for someone so slight of build which is encouraging. Has a great leap on him and can take a high flying mark and also for his size is a very strong contested mark. Has also shown nice ability to read the ball and regularly gets intercept marks off opposition kicks. After a mark is willing to move the ball on quickly and in a team with quick ball movement could really thrive. Lively tackler. Skills very neat and pin point. Finishing ability around goal good. Also really like his composure with ball in hand and generally uses it really well.

Why:

2. Jesse Hogan (WA – KPF)

Height: 193cm, Weight: 97kg, DOB: 12/02/1995

Recruited from: Claremont

Style: Jonathan Brown

Player comparison:

Range: 1-10

Profile: Strong contested marking forward and is a real presence and target you can kick to. Also has excellent ability to take a 1v1 mark and this seems a real feature of his game. Reads it well in the air and off the players boot. Has the ability to crash packs and bring it to ground and seems to enjoy the physical side of the game. Physically developed for his age and already a very high level key forward. By foot is a good field kick and can find a leading target. Will need to work on set shot goal kicking routine – just doesn’t look as fluid as you’d ideally like to see and as a result his set shot goal kicking seems to suffer.

Why:

Josh Kelly is a gun and a great young man. He would be well worth a mini draft pick (if we can get one at a reasonable price).

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Josh Kelly is a gun and a great young man. He would be well worth a mini draft pick (if we can get one at a reasonable price).

I have read that he is a bit of a bolter for even the number 1 spot, being Victorian and that Martin may be more keen to stay in WA....this seems weird as it was obvious when he nominated that neither WA team could get a pick to organise the trade?