Are we preparing to give up our draft picks?

[Guest José Mourinho]

Oh here we go.... Somehow you manage to bring up your pet hate in EVERY thread you comment in.

Pretty over it mate, wish you would get over it too.

It was topical, due to my discussion of what holds players back physically in today's tightly contested rolling scrum situations.

Do you disagree?

[Hells Gates 505]

Those deals are few and far between.

Not many realised the bargain we were getting with Clark when we traded for him.

Even his former coach doubted his ability to make the impact that he has.

12 in last year's draft does not equal 12 in this year's, and we were fortunate enough to be able to offer that pick to trump Freo who were low-balling, and many other clubs probably simply didn't bother getting involved as they thought MC wouldn't agree to a different destination, and the "juice wasn't worth the squeeze".

Would you offer our pick 12 this year for Shaun Hampson?

(his missus notwithstanding...)

Would maybe look at Hampson but hasnt he signed with the Blues for 3 years?

I'm still hopeful of Cook, draft mids now as you said in another post we have a great opportunity to snare a Pendles, Thomas, Pavlich, Judd with #3,4.

Its not as if we are vying for a GF berth anytime soon, so more fitness, alot more skills, weed out the players who dont perform - this will take a couple of years for a proper clean out and if Cook doesnt come good in 2 years then it'll be hopefully around our top 4 window after that so draft a big forward then eg: Patton, Cameron, Hogan, Witts or whoever is going ok then.

My biggest concern is if Neeld panics due to knowing he only has 2 years left. Not saying he will but he's obviously suprised at our perceived talent not being as good as everyone blows it up to be. I just hope he doesnt panic & draft a whole heap of big bodied Magners, you can be as tough as nails but if you dont have the skill to execute the gameplan then we will be going around in circles!

All I ask for is that the MFC draft, recruit & trade sensibly, pick players for what theyre worth & focus on our needs, not just big bodies, Im sure they will do a great job as they did with Clark. I must say I'm getting more nervous by the day with all the suggestions in the media ie: 17 yo's, Boak @ 4, Cloke 5/5...But it is the media so I will settle down!!!.

[beelzebub 23,198]

I think the key is getting the best possible return for our picks, whether it be through a selection or trade.

The resistance to trade is borne of the highly likely prospect that we'll get a better return through drafting this year, based on the evaluation of this draft by the "experts".

NB. Although that perception now seems to be shifting slightly, in that the draft is not as deep as first thought.

Making our position all the more valuable.

There is without doubt a course for a horse. I cant help though but feel some get trapped in this kiddy circus. All paths to Rome apparrently start with picking this or that Golden Child via a prized pick.

Well it can, but it might not and thats teh rub of this. Its all specualtion often, a game of educated guesses ( well we hope a little more dont we ) . But its about evaluating what benefit best befits our (or any ) club and by what avenue.

The best option for a particular pick might well be that budding beaudy of a bloke in the draft. He might be just the duck's nuts or he may turnout another nqr. Then we have in tehred corner or behind curtain number 2 a slightly used but good to a new home , honest toiler of a player whos just not in with the 'in crowd' of his current employer.

Theres a theme that ought to run through lists. Its BALANCE. A healthy smattering of youngens together with developing players who alongside established bonefide footballers can actually piece together something resembling a decent and competitive ( dare I say winning ) team.

So many want to load up with kids it starts to look like a kindergarten excursion. We dont want it looking like a " Happy Hollows "outing of the frame-pushers either but we have to get it right.

You have to have a bunch of blokes who on the day can ALL play at their level of a bility and aspire to better. Not this continual ceremony of blooding newbies in the feint hope of striking it rich one day.

Use any pick for the best outcome, matters not from where. Its the outcome that matters.

[Hells Gates 505]

Mitch for Pick 12

Brock for Gysberts

Trapper for Grimes

I'm confident enough we won't do anything stupid.

Not in anyway picking on your post as I love those players but Gysberts has been injured alot, potentially our smartest mid, but not quick & not fit either, he may not even make it yet (which I hope he does). And Grimes even though he's captain & having an ok year was drafted with injury concerns & continued that since he was drafted playing only 45 games or so in 5 years. I more than anyone want these two favourites of mine to do well, but at this stage anything could happen.

And Mitch Clark - get me another 17 of him please!

[stuie 7,374]

Not in anyway picking on your post as I love those players but Gysberts has been injured alot, potentially our smartest mid, but not quick & not fit either, he may not even make it yet (which I hope he does). And Grimes even though he's captain & having an ok year was drafted with injury concerns & continued that since he was drafted playing only 45 games or so in 5 years. I more than anyone want these two favourites of mine to do well, but at this stage anything could happen.

And Mitch Clark - get me another 17 of him please!

I have a really good feeling about Gysberts for some reason...

But my post was more about some good deals we've done rather than suggest the players we got were perfect.

One thing we may be missing here is our drafting has not turned out great and been a bit hit and miss while our trades have been quite astute.

[Nineteen 159]

Around 2015 the new clubs are going to be extremely competitive & serious flag prospecting is going to be super tough there after.

We have 2012 - 2014 to have a serious crack & draftees this year are not going to be matured pre 2015.

Trade ready to go players for the picks.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'd trade any pick for the RIGHT price.

Geez some of you guys are acting like draft picks are the reason we play! We play to WIN games not get the highest draft pick we can....

NO, Not for me.

For me, it's play to win a Premiership. Games are not enough.

For anyone who just wants to cheer a win, I'm not with you.

For me, It's to fight for Premierships, or it's nothing.

[stuie 7,374]

NO, Not for me.

For me, it's play to win a Premiership. Games are not enough.

For anyone who just wants to cheer a win, I'm not with you.

For me, It's to fight for Premierships, or it's nothing.

ummmmmmm you have to win games to win premierships.... you don't get given one because you have the most top 10 draft picks

[Hells Gates 505]

ummmmmmm you have to win games to win premierships.... you don't get given one because you have the most top 10 draft picks

Damn!!! If that was the case we would've flogged Carlton in many Grand Finals by now!!!

[DeeZee 7,296]

You get what the team needs.

We need some experienced players who can lead the way.

I would be happy with a Boak or Beams, and a talented youngster like a toumpass or wines , Jack Viney, and maybe an experienced recycled player like a brad Sewell.

Either way it's going to be a good period for us, where we will add another 3 or 4 very good players to our list.

I love Martin the young indigenous boy, by the way, he reminds me of Lewis Jetta,great speed at the contest,and good spread.

[drdrake 3,119]

It's all about who we want to get and there value to our club not their current club. Is Boak worth pick 4 to most clubs the answer is no, to us our midfield is that bad he would be on par with a Nathan Jones who is our best midfielder by a mile, you would love to get him with pick 13 but that isn't going to happen. No matter what happens with our 3 first round draft picks we will get 3 players that will be considered first round picks be it Viney, Boak and pick 13 or Viney and picks 4/13 or picks 3/4/13 or a 17yo 3 and 13, no matter which way you use these picks we will be adding three players that should be high quality. My Ideal senerio is Pick 3, pick 5, Boak, Viney and two third round picks, swap first picks with port and give them pick 13, get Boak and third round pick.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,748]

We at Melbourne probably have a jaundiced view of the value of high draft picks.

Almost all of ours have missed significant parts of their early careers due to injury.....viz. Blease, Morton, Strauss, Gysberts, Grimes, even Watts in his second year.Also Gawn, Tapscott , McLean , Tynan,Taggart Cook and Sylvia have all had lots of injuries. Also Fitzpatrick, but I guess he wasn't a high pick.

Trengove and Jones the real exceptions.(though there is a suggestion that Jack's groin is playing up) But I think there oare others who have been injured a lot of the time, .....can anyone remind me??

Collingwood have had blokes like Thomas, Cloke and (until now) Pendlebury having relatively injury free careers, which has really helped their development.

Edited July 11, 2012 by JUMPING JACK CLENNETT

[beelzebub 23,198]

And maybe they (filth) just pick better !

[markc 975]

I think you will find with all the rumours , that pick 3 will be off the GWS for the mini Draft , Pick 4 is supposedly going to Port for boak and pick 12 is off the Gold Coast for Josh Caddy

and then we will get Viney , plus one or two free Agents , thats if you believe everything you read or hear .

[rpfc 28,046]

And maybe they (filth) just pick better !

No, I think they know what they are doing with talent when they get their hands on it.

Thankfully I feel that way about Misson and Craig.

[beelzebub 23,198]

No, I think they know what they are doing with talent when they get their hands on it.

Thankfully I feel that way about Misson and Craig.

hindsight suggests much validity to such a notion . Hope youre right

[dee-luded 2,959]

ummmmmmm you have to win games to win premierships.... you don't get given one because you have the most top 10 draft picks

thats too simplistic stuie.

The attitude is the willingness to go thru the Pain, to build a premiership winning list. The past admin/recruiters made mistakes with the drafting the wrong types, but the biggest problems was a soft culture around the whole place, & a lacking of real footy nous. This is what caused the problems.

Thats why we are finishing a major list rebuild. And now, need to tidy up a couple of spots that we mucked up.

[beelzebub 23,198]

Im not sure its too simplistic at all. I think many over complicate a rather simple thing. Two teams play. One wins. He who wins most often is more likely to take the choccies come the big game.

Its ALL ultimately about winning...... hey Charlie !!!

[Macca 16,606]

Might be a bit early to be judging Tapscott . He's only just turned 21 and has played just 24 games . Some of the posters who have backed Trengove and are urging people to have more patience (which I agree with) seem reasonably happy to lose Luke .

I doubt the club feel the same way . Tappy adds a certain toughness to our team which we can ill afford to lose , and he hasn't reached his peak as a footballer yet . He's by no means the only young player to have had a below average season this year (so far)

I do agree , however , that it will take more than pick 12 to get Boak . Maybe a more complicated deal will get the job done . It might involve more than just our club and Port or we could end up with extra draft picks (in other trades) which we could use in a deal with Port .

Edited July 11, 2012 by Macca

[stuie 7,374]

Neeld loves Tappy, he's been one of the blokes selected regularly even when form may not have warranted it.

Not going anywhere.

NB- Some other Neeld loves apart from Tappy may include Moloney, Magner, and Trengove, see a pattern as to what he likes in his players?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Sometimes I struggle with economies of scale, but I'll try and make brevity my friend.

When will (some) supporters realise that stars win you premierships ? Yes, I know that stars surrounded by duds isn't recommended and it's patently obvious a club tries to build depth through to their 28th best player, but stars elevate clubs to completely different levels.

Where do stars usually come from ? The best chance of drafting stars is with top 10 draft picks. It's not a matter of collecting early picks because they're cute and shiny, it's about maximising your opportunities in order to win a flag in an 18 team competition. They're not getting easier to win and if you don't have stars you simply won't win one. It's worth repeating, if you don't have stars you won't win a flag. How do you get stars to your club ?

If we'd used our last 9 top 20 draft picks without missing a beat we'd have a premiership quality list right now. The facts are we didn't and we don't, but early picks give you the best chance if you nail them. There will always be a Nathan Fyfe, Dane Swan, or James Hird who aren't drafted at the pointy end, but they're few and far between. What do the following players have in common: Franklin, Roughead, Deledio, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Selwood, Bartel, Murphy, Judd, Hodge, Griffen, Cooney (pre knee), Pendlebury, Thomas, Goddard, Pavlich, Didak, Corey ? Top 10 picks. And yes, there are more average top 10 draft picks than guns. You have to make the right choices. But the best players will usually come from the best picks, or F/S's. Dangerfield was top 10 and he's well on his way to star status; and the best player at our club, Mitch Clark was also a top 10 pick. It's not rocket science. It stands to reason that if you have early picks and access to the best talent in the land you're at a supreme advantage if you get the picks right. Even just after pick 10 you'll often get good results, such as early teen picks like Hayes, Jack Riewoldt, Sidebottom and our own James Frawley. We don't go out to "win" early picks, but they put you in the game.

Does anyone doubt that this draft will unearth stars ? There will be stars from this draft and that is an out and out certainty. What odds are there of getting a star or two when you've got two of the first 4 picks in a draft that is recognised as having terrific talent early on ? I'd trade pick 13 and a player for Boak, but I'll be gutted if we trade pick 4. And just because I'd trade Tapscott to improve our list doesn't mean I don't rate him, it means I do.

[stuie 7,374]

Sometimes I struggle with economies of scale, but I'll try and make brevity my friend.

When will (some) supporters realise that stars win you premierships ? Yes, I know that stars surrounded by duds isn't recommended and it's patently obvious a club tries to build depth through to their 28th best player, but stars elevate clubs to completely different levels.

Where do stars usually come from ? The best chance of drafting stars is with top 10 draft picks. It's not a matter of collecting early picks because they're cute and shiny, it's about maximising your opportunities in order to win a flag in an 18 team competition. They're not getting easier to win and if you don't have stars you simply won't win one. It's worth repeating, if you don't have stars you won't win a flag. How do you get stars to your club ?

If we'd used our last 9 top 20 draft picks without missing a beat we'd have a premiership quality list right now. The facts are we didn't and we don't, but early picks give you the best chance if you nail them. There will always be a Nathan Fyfe, Dane Swan, or James Hird who aren't drafted at the pointy end, but they're few and far between. What do the following players have in common: Franklin, Roughead, Deledio, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Selwood, Bartel, Murphy, Judd, Hodge, Griffen, Cooney (pre knee), Pendlebury, Thomas, Goddard, Pavlich, Didak, Corey ? Top 10 picks. And yes, there are more average top 10 draft picks than guns. You have to make the right choices. But the best players will usually come from the best picks, or F/S's. Dangerfield was top 10 and he's well on his way to star status; and the best player at our club, Mitch Clark was also a top 10 pick. It's not rocket science. It stands to reason that if you have early picks and access to the best talent in the land you're at a supreme advantage if you get the picks right. Even just after pick 10 you'll often get good results, such as early teen picks like Hayes, Jack Riewoldt, Sidebottom and our own James Frawley. We don't go out to "win" early picks, but they put you in the game.

Does anyone doubt that this draft will unearth stars ? There will be stars from this draft and that is an out and out certainty. What odds are there of getting a star or two when you've got two of the first 4 picks in a draft that is recognised as having terrific talent early on ? I'd trade pick 13 and a player for Boak, but I'll be gutted if we trade pick 4. And just because I'd trade Tapscott to improve our list doesn't mean I don't rate him, it means I do.

Cale Morton says hi... Would you trade him for Boak?

Edited July 11, 2012 by stuie

[John Dee 445]

I really like the way the club is operating here, and do not have any concern at all. Publicly floating the idea about trading draft picks is very different from actually doing so but it does flag to all that we will be interested in any offers; that does not mean that we will necessarily accept them. The Travis Cloke 'offer' is fine too, if we are sure that he is going to stay with the filth. It was stated last night that a revised 'final' offer was was to Cloke. If we can increase the pressure on another club's salary cap by public posturing, then do so.

I am not privy to the inner thinking at the club and I do not really want to be. I am confident that they know exactly what they are doing and will play Hardball. The trades over the last few years, mentioned earler in this thread, give me that confidence.

The phoney war is about to begin. There will be many smokescreens, don't let them confuse you; trust the club..

[Johnny Karate 559]

Cale Morton says hi... Would you trade him for Boak?

If you could guarantee that pick 4 will be another Morton, then yes. Just because we've selected poorly in the past doesn't mean we are doomed to do so forever.

[jumbo returns 6,703]

It's not really about not being a big wrap for him. It's about being realistic and acknowledging that several scenarios may play out, one of which could be Port asking for a player to get the pick 12 deal done.

They won't accept one of our duds, as much as we'd like them to.

Fair enough - I just see him as someone who exudes attitude (Clark style). He brings real hardness.

Tapscott in the middle with Viney is quite tantalising.