Toumpas v Stringer v Wines

[dee-luded 2,959]

Tac cup future stars just did their first round mock, some interesting selections.

Their top 10 was:

1 GWS Lachie Whitfield

2 GC Jonathan O'Rourke

3 MEL Jack Viney

4 MEL Brodie Grundy

5 WB Jimmy Toumpas

6 WB Sam Mayes

7 PA Oliver Wines

8 BL Troy Menzel

9 RIC Dayle Garlett

10 FRE Lachlan Plowman

They had us taking Ben Kennedy at 13. Vlastuin slid to 19 and Stringer didn't make the first round.

Make of it what you will but it's all pretty speculative this far out in my opinion. Personally I like Toumpas, Wines and maybe Grundy with our early picks if Jack slips through. Mayes is another I like but he's not a natural accumulator of the footy and we need to use our early picks on kids who can get their hands on the footy.

We should be able to land another very good player with 13 if we don't trade it. Any or all of Colquhuon, Simpson, Kennedy, and Stringer could be available IMO.

To me, I think the Bullies may go with one Midfielder & one Key Position player.

* Blighty will have a big say in who the Suns recruit, I'm sure.

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

Pick 4 & 13 & 21 (Jack Viney) & a moneyballer & a free agent could all be midfielders!

Im sure we can spare Pick 3 for the best big man who will dominate his position. He will be as versatile as a Cox.

Grundy is consistently a very good player! Will make an immediate impact.

And he would be our best draft pick in the last 20 years. Big call I know!

He will destroy the opposition!

Last few top draft picks as rucks who were going to be guns Gardiner (96) Fraser (99) Kruezar (07) Natanui(08) no thanks Mumford, Jolly, Jacobs, Cox and even Jim (God bless him) are always there.

Take the mids

[rpfc 28,779]

Last few top draft picks as rucks who were going to be guns Gardiner (96) Fraser (99) Kruezar (07) Natanui(08) no thanks Mumford, Jolly, Jacobs, Cox and even Jim (God bless him) are always there.

Take the mids

Yes.

I understand the desire but we have a 1st ruck for 3 years and that is ample time to find a competitive ruck at a lower pick.

3 and 4 should be the best mids we can get our hands on.

[furious d 472]

Last few top draft picks as rucks who were going to be guns Gardiner (96) Fraser (99) Kruezar (07) Natanui(08) no thanks Mumford, Jolly, Jacobs, Cox and even Jim (God bless him) are always there.

Take the mids

First I'd just like to point out that this is all pretty hypothetical at this stage of the year. People stating that this kid is rated here and that kid there are only guessing this far out. Whitfield looks a standout #1 but there is a lot of conjecture after that. There's plenty of footy left before the draft and finals alone will see some bolters and sliders, then it's off to draft camp, and after all that we'll have a much better idea of who is truly rated where, but we'll still be guessing.

For me, with Grundy, it's more a case of not ruling him out, rather than wanting him at this stage. I agree the midfield is the priority right now and if we are forced to use pick 3 on Viney I'd rule Grundy out straight away. We desperately need some class and pace to compliment young Jack and we'll need early picks to do that. If Viney does make it through to the second round it opens the door a bit to consider a tall or some other type.

It's no secret that Neeld would like another big body down in the forward line to compliment Clark. Chasing Cloke is clear evidence of that. If we can't land a ready made through FA or a trade Grundy may be the next best option. He's 100 kg's already and would provide a much stronger contest in the fwd line than either Cook or Fitzpatrick right now. He has a good engine, can take a contested grab,is good below his knees, kicked 9 goals during the champs, is a good kick and has a bit of mongrel in him.

He doesn't have to be a worldbeater early, just provide a foil for big Mitch, take the odd contested grab and kick the odd goal. If Cook and Fitzpatrick can't get in the side while our forward line is so devoid of options, they are unlikely to be ready next year. Grundy might be.

Long term we need more ruck options and Grundy would provide good competition but short term I'd consider drafting him as a stopgap KPF if the recruiting dept thought he was up to it. He could provide that missing piece to the structure Neeld wants in the forward line.

[rjay 25,088]

First I'd just like to point out that this is all pretty hypothetical at this stage of the year. People stating that this kid is rated here and that kid there are only guessing this far out. Whitfield looks a standout #1 but there is a lot of conjecture after that. There's plenty of footy left before the draft and finals alone will see some bolters and sliders, then it's off to draft camp, and after all that we'll have a much better idea of who is truly rated where, but we'll still be guessing.

For me, with Grundy, it's more a case of not ruling him out, rather than wanting him at this stage. I agree the midfield is the priority right now and if we are forced to use pick 3 on Viney I'd rule Grundy out straight away. We desperately need some class and pace to compliment young Jack and we'll need early picks to do that. If Viney does make it through to the second round it opens the door a bit to consider a tall or some other type.

It's no secret that Neeld would like another big body down in the forward line to compliment Clark. Chasing Cloke is clear evidence of that. If we can't land a ready made through FA or a trade Grundy may be the next best option. He's 100 kg's already and would provide a much stronger contest in the fwd line than either Cook or Fitzpatrick right now. He has a good engine, can take a contested grab,is good below his knees, kicked 9 goals during the champs, is a good kick and has a bit of mongrel in him.

He doesn't have to be a worldbeater early, just provide a foil for big Mitch, take the odd contested grab and kick the odd goal. If Cook and Fitzpatrick can't get in the side while our forward line is so devoid of options, they are unlikely to be ready next year. Grundy might be.

Long term we need more ruck options and Grundy would provide good competition but short term I'd consider drafting him as a stopgap KPF if the recruiting dept thought he was up to it. He could provide that missing piece to the structure Neeld wants in the forward line.

Good argument, I ruled him out but I see what you are getting at. It really depends on where we take Viney as you've said.

[olisik 4,060]

Isnt O'Rourke a goal kicking forward?

Why would we take a ruckman to do that when O'Rourke may be available

[dee-luded 2,959]

First I'd just like to point out that this is all pretty hypothetical at this stage of the year. People stating that this kid is rated here and that kid there are only guessing this far out. Whitfield looks a standout #1 but there is a lot of conjecture after that. There's plenty of footy left before the draft and finals alone will see some bolters and sliders, then it's off to draft camp, and after all that we'll have a much better idea of who is truly rated where, but we'll still be guessing.

For me, with Grundy, it's more a case of not ruling him out, rather than wanting him at this stage. I agree the midfield is the priority right now and if we are forced to use pick 3 on Viney I'd rule Grundy out straight away. We desperately need some class and pace to compliment young Jack and we'll need early picks to do that. If Viney does make it through to the second round it opens the door a bit to consider a tall or some other type.

It's no secret that Neeld would like another big body down in the forward line to compliment Clark. Chasing Cloke is clear evidence of that. If we can't land a ready made through FA or a trade Grundy may be the next best option. He's 100 kg's already and would provide a much stronger contest in the fwd line than either Cook or Fitzpatrick right now. He has a good engine, can take a contested grab,is good below his knees, kicked 9 goals during the champs, is a good kick and has a bit of mongrel in him.

He doesn't have to be a worldbeater early, just provide a foil for big Mitch, take the odd contested grab and kick the odd goal. If Cook and Fitzpatrick can't get in the side while our forward line is so devoid of options, they are unlikely to be ready next year. Grundy might be.

Long term we need more ruck options and Grundy would provide good competition but short term I'd consider drafting him as a stopgap KPF if the recruiting dept thought he was up to it. He could provide that missing piece to the structure Neeld wants in the forward line.

If Viney was nominated I'd take best available.

That would mean Whitfield or Grundy slide or other Highly rated players.

Viney is rated around 10th.

[furious d 472]

Isnt O'Rourke a goal kicking forward?

Why would we take a ruckman to do that when O'Rourke may be available

Because O'Rourke is 183cm and 75kg.

[furious d 472]

Viney is rated around 10th.

By who?

Viney's injury has helped him slide a bit but he still has VFL finals ahead. If Jack gets BOG in a VFL GF to go along with his TAC Cup GF BOG from last year, he'd be pretty hard for GC to ignore.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Isnt O'Rourke a goal kicking forward?

Why would we take a ruckman to do that when O'Rourke may be available

I thought he was an inside/outside mid type player, floats across the half back if anything i thought

[Jordie_tackles 354]

By who?

Viney's injury has helped him slide a bit but he still has VFL finals ahead. If Jack gets BOG in a VFL GF to go along with his TAC Cup GF BOG from last year, he'd be pretty hard for GC to ignore.

Yep, no way Viney is rated at 10, i am pretty comfortable with him rating at 4-5

[dee-luded 2,959]

By who?

Viney's injury has helped him slide a bit but he still has VFL finals ahead. If Jack gets BOG in a VFL GF to go along with his TAC Cup GF BOG from last year, he'd be pretty hard for GC to ignore.

We Need Great Midfield Class with great Kicking to position & spread,,, ahead of hard in/unders with spread. We already have Jones doing this. Sylvia's going inside & we need the class outside we lost when $cull left for $$$$$$$.

Most Clubs need class over grunt except the 2 new sides, who have already drafted the class.

They need tough extractors.

from Chris on Big Footy

26. Melbourne - Jack Viney (178cm midfielder - Oakleigh)

In an open draft, I'd probably have Viney somewhere between picks 5 and 15 on talent and more specifically value (history says similar types can be drafted later).

But in terms of F/S bidding, I think the Gold Coast will genuinely bid on him - with the intention of drafting him, not just to force Melbourne to take him early. Viney would be a near perfect for the Suns in terms of what they already have, so they might look towards needs over best available although it would be difficult using the #1 pick that way. Not that it matters though, Melbourne will 100% take him. He is one of those small bulldozer types, if he sees the ball he'll go in and get it. His kicking and athleticism are decent, but his attack is excellent - he is a very mature player. I do think he is a first round pick, just that maybe he'll be closer to the level of an Andrew Swallow than a Joel Selwood. AFL Comparison: Andrew Swallow.

http://www.bigfooty....k-draft.956131/

-----------------------------------------------------------

from Nightmare Big Footy

#26 Melbourne- Jack Viney (VIC - Mid) F/S

Height: 178cm, Weight: 80kg, DOB: 13/04/1994

Recruited from: Oakleigh Chargers

Style: Joel Selwood

Player comparison: Toby Greene

Range: 1st round/2nd round

Profile: Really competitive and hard inside midfield. Could have joined an AFL club as a 17 year old and been a regular. Not a big fella, but purely and simply he is the hardest player I’ve seen coming through the system and his attack on the ball, attack on the man and aggression on the field is without equal and the big reason why he is such a dominant player already. Wins all the hard, contested ball and as a 17 year old was doing better than most of the 18 year olds who got drafted early, so Melbourne will get very lucky to have young Jack who I’m sure will very quickly become a Mark Neeld favourite. Tackling is excellent. Is a real leader out on the field and is someone who really leads by his actions and hardness at the footy. Potential culture changer and sure to be a member of the leadership group soon enough. Really high character guy and hard worker who will put time into his game until he becomes elite. Jack has very clean hands and uses it well by hand consistently. Big time accumulator.

Left foot kick, can use his right. Kicking is generally very good and can find his targets over short and medium range but doesn’t have that same hurt factor as some of the other elite mids in this draft.

Speed is good and can break away from packs, also athletically I like his agility and side step, has some evasiveness and can burst off in another direction at pace. The big strength athletically is his endurance which without seeing any of his testing I suspect would be very, very good because he has such a high work rate.

http://www.bigfooty....k-draft.956129/

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Tac cup future stars just did their first round mock, some interesting selections.

Their top 10 was:

1 GWS Lachie Whitfield

2 GC Jonathan O'Rourke

3 MEL Jack Viney

4 MEL Brodie Grundy

5 WB Jimmy Toumpas

6 WB Sam Mayes

7 PA Oliver Wines

8 BL Troy Menzel

9 RIC Dayle Garlett

10 FRE Lachlan Plowman

They had us taking Ben Kennedy at 13. Vlastuin slid to 19 and Stringer didn't make the first round.

Make of it what you will but it's all pretty speculative this far out in my opinion. Personally I like Toumpas, Wines and maybe Grundy with our early picks if Jack slips through. Mayes is another I like but he's not a natural accumulator of the footy and we need to use our early picks on kids who can get their hands on the footy.

We should be able to land another very good player with 13 if we don't trade it. Any or all of Colquhuon, Simpson, Kennedy, and Stringer could be available IMO.

I haven't seen the kid play, but I wold be horrified if we took Grundy with an early pick. We are so massively top-heavy as a list right now it's not funny, and the lack of midfield run and class is killing us. We have five rucks on our list right now. That is more than enough.

I also question them having Viney as a lock for pick 3. Do they really think GC or GWS will risk Whitfield on an attempt to bluff us? Whoever has pick 2 (might still be us) might try something, but I see it as a long shot at this stage. Viney is good, but right now he isn't clearly in the top group I would think. We'll see how he's rated at the end of the season and after the testing.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

The way i see it and , alot of people here saying Viney isnt in the top group of players this draft? who is better than him?

The consensus is Whitfield, Grundy (suck it up he is rated this high), Toumpas,

Then Viney, Wines, O'Rourke, Mayes, Plowman, as the next inseparable group

With Menzel and Stringer a risk due to injury sliding, Garlett due to mentality being risk reward types who could go in the mix if a club is confident on them

I personally with only a limited knowledge, following many peoples opinions and watching a round of the champs live cant see to many players who seem to be rated or that i was excited by who are better than Viney 100%, i am happy to place him in the 4-6 range and be confident that is where he belongs, i honestly think i would rate him at 4 from what i have seen this draft.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Jordie_tackles

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

The way i see it and , alot of people here saying Viney isnt in the top group of players this draft? who is better than him?

The consensus is Whitfield, Grundy (suck it up he is rated this high), Toumpas,

Then Viney, Wines, O'Rourke, Mayes, Plowman, as the next inseparable group

With Menzel and Stringer a risk due to injury sliding, Garlett due to mentality being risk reward types who could go in the mix if a club is confident on them

I personally with only a limited knowledge, following many peoples opinions and watching a round of the champs live cant see to many players who seem to be rated or that i was excited by who are better than Viney 100%, i am happy to place him in the 4-6 range and be confident that is where he belongs, i honestly think i would rate him at 4 from what i have seen this draft.

I also have very limited information to go on, but he has some factors counting against him.

He missed a large portion of the year through injury.

Didn't make the AA side.

His kicking is rated as good but not elite (looking at the phantom drafts there are lots of guys rated well above him in this area).

His pace is ok but not elite.

All of these things indicate that he could slide a little. They are all things that have in the past caused players to drop down the order.

[BIG JIM 508]

Dont think GWS or GC will bid on Viney IMO.

Toumpas is a lock if he is there at 3.

Pick 4 maybe Grundy or Wines.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Jack Viney (178cm midfielder - Oakleigh)

can find his targets over short and medium range but doesn’t have that same hurt factor as some of the other elite mids in this draft.

He's no Daniel Rich when it comes to kicking, but he has better pace than Rich and is a better inside mid than Rich.

I'm very comfortable with what Viney can do and very unconcerned by what he's not elite at. If he had Rich's boot he wouldn't be far off pick one.

[furious d 472]

We Need Great Midfield Class with great Kicking to position & spread,,, ahead of hard in/unders with spread. We already have Jones doing this. Sylvia's going inside & we need the class outside we lost when $cull left for $$$$$$$.

Most Clubs need class over grunt except the 2 new sides, who have already drafted the class.

They need tough extractors.

from Chris on Big Footy

26. Melbourne - Jack Viney (178cm midfielder - Oakleigh)

In an open draft, I'd probably have Viney somewhere between picks 5 and 15 on talent and more specifically value (history says similar types can be drafted later).

But in terms of F/S bidding, I think the Gold Coast will genuinely bid on him - with the intention of drafting him, not just to force Melbourne to take him early. Viney would be a near perfect for the Suns in terms of what they already have, so they might look towards needs over best available although it would be difficult using the #1 pick that way. Not that it matters though, Melbourne will 100% take him. He is one of those small bulldozer types, if he sees the ball he'll go in and get it. His kicking and athleticism are decent, but his attack is excellent - he is a very mature player. I do think he is a first round pick, just that maybe he'll be closer to the level of an Andrew Swallow than a Joel Selwood. AFL Comparison: Andrew Swallow.

http://www.bigfooty....k-draft.956131/

-----------------------------------------------------------

from Nightmare Big Footy

#26 Melbourne- Jack Viney (VIC - Mid) F/S

Height: 178cm, Weight: 80kg, DOB: 13/04/1994

Recruited from: Oakleigh Chargers

Style: Joel Selwood

Player comparison: Toby Greene

Range: 1st round/2nd round

Profile: Really competitive and hard inside midfield. Could have joined an AFL club as a 17 year old and been a regular. Not a big fella, but purely and simply he is the hardest player I’ve seen coming through the system and his attack on the ball, attack on the man and aggression on the field is without equal and the big reason why he is such a dominant player already. Wins all the hard, contested ball and as a 17 year old was doing better than most of the 18 year olds who got drafted early, so Melbourne will get very lucky to have young Jack who I’m sure will very quickly become a Mark Neeld favourite. Tackling is excellent. Is a real leader out on the field and is someone who really leads by his actions and hardness at the footy. Potential culture changer and sure to be a member of the leadership group soon enough. Really high character guy and hard worker who will put time into his game until he becomes elite. Jack has very clean hands and uses it well by hand consistently. Big time accumulator.

Left foot kick, can use his right. Kicking is generally very good and can find his targets over short and medium range but doesn’t have that same hurt factor as some of the other elite mids in this draft.

Speed is good and can break away from packs, also athletically I like his agility and side step, has some evasiveness and can burst off in another direction at pace. The big strength athletically is his endurance which without seeing any of his testing I suspect would be very, very good because he has such a high work rate.

http://www.bigfooty....k-draft.956129/

So you read a couple of mock drafts on bigfooty, you'll have to do better than that dee-luded. Maybe you should have looked a bit closer at Knightmare, who forms 50% of this consensus that has Jack rated at 10. In his power rankings, where he rates the kids purely on ability, he has Daniher at 1, O'Meara at 2, Whitfield at 3 and Viney at 4.

The bigfooty phantom draft trial run has started today. Other draft watchers have joined with the 2 you mention and so far they've come up with:

1 GWS Whitfield

2 GC Mayes

3 MEL Viney

4 MEL Grundy

5 WB Wines

6 WB O'Rourke

7 PA Toumpas

8 BL Garlett

My point is that the only pick that everyone agrees on right now is Whitfield at 1, after that it's all conjecture and opinion. Some clearly rate Viney in the top 5, others don't.

I also disagree that you don't ever use high picks on a ruckman, every kid should be judged on their talent. Ottens was a high pick and he was the most important player in Geelong's success imo. Not the best player but the most important to their setup and structure. Rucks that can win the footy, dispose of it well and kick goals are hard to find.

[Angelus BTVS 31]

Our first 3 picks should secure top end talent this draft quite easily has depth to 15 at minimum. Out of that it becomes a needs basis for all clubs. Whitfield is the standout player Grundy is the standout big man Plowman a quality tall defender in U18 but beleive is only 190cm so maybe more of flanker in AFL. Inside mids Wines, Viney, O'rourke. Outside mids Toumpas, Mayes, Colquhon etc smalls like Kennedy, garlett, simpson etc then the ? Marks with undoubted ability but query over injuries in Stringer & Menzel.

Point is all above kids have plenty of talent but they need to be developed correctly. My own preference is to secure Sam Mayes with one of the picks as after watching the championships a lot over the years i beleive mayes to be a player with a massive upside but already has the ability to walk right in to AFL now, if you want an elite kick and decision maker that can make others look better he is someone with that ability. Reminds of Scott Pendlebury when first saw him. Not ready for inside mid straight away but will become one then making him a complete mid with size which we need.

All comes down to the players attitudes and quality of development by the coaches for all these kids as they have the talent

[Biffen 12,947]

I like the idea of getting Wines and Grundy. If nothing else the creation of nicknames will be simple .

[Guest KingDingAling]

I wish we could put to bed the talk of Viney slipping to the second round

as Silvani and Sheedy have indicated they will bid, end of story.

The only way we get Jack second round is if we come last.

GC would've beat the Port we played on Sat night.

They will probably end up higher than us.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

So you read a couple of mock drafts on bigfooty, you'll have to do better than that dee-luded. Maybe you should have looked a bit closer at Knightmare, who forms 50% of this consensus that has Jack rated at 10. In his power rankings, where he rates the kids purely on ability, he has Daniher at 1, O'Meara at 2, Whitfield at 3 and Viney at 4.

The bigfooty phantom draft trial run has started today. Other draft watchers have joined with the 2 you mention and so far they've come up with:

1 GWS Whitfield

2 GC Mayes

3 MEL Viney

4 MEL Grundy

5 WB Wines

6 WB O'Rourke

7 PA Toumpas

8 BL Garlett

My point is that the only pick that everyone agrees on right now is Whitfield at 1, after that it's all conjecture and opinion. Some clearly rate Viney in the top 5, others don't.

I also disagree that you don't ever use high picks on a ruckman, every kid should be judged on their talent. Ottens was a high pick and he was the most important player in Geelong's success imo. Not the best player but the most important to their setup and structure. Rucks that can win the footy, dispose of it well and kick goals are hard to find.

This is it, nobody can really agree on where Viney belongs, and i dont think any of us really have an idea if these amateur experts cant agree on him.

Especially as he is limited in his height and some people question is ability to develop

[Jordie_tackles 354]

I wish we could put to bed the talk of Viney slipping to the second round

as Silvani and Sheedy have indicated they will bid, end of story.

The only way we get Jack second round is if we come last.

GC would've beat the Port we played on Sat night.

They will probably end up higher than us.

It is a big possibility, it is a risk letting big talents in Whitfield, Grundy and Toupmas even Mayes slip to us as we get 2 of them, not just one. and GWS and GC will miss out on them, and look stupid

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

Yes.

I understand the desire but we have a 1st ruck for 3 years and that is ample time to find a competitive ruck at a lower pick.

3 and 4 should be the best mids we can get our hands on.

RPFC think I made it pretty clear I want Midfielders and Rucks who I said I prefer were all taken laet in draft or rookie elevations

Just to clarify

MIDS with Pick 3 & 4, rucks late picks or rookie/PSD

[dee-luded 2,959]

So you read a couple of mock drafts on bigfooty, you'll have to do better than that dee-luded. Maybe you should have looked a bit closer at Knightmare, who forms 50% of this consensus that has Jack rated at 10. In his power rankings, where he rates the kids purely on ability, he has Daniher at 1, O'Meara at 2, Whitfield at 3 and Viney at 4.

The bigfooty phantom draft trial run has started today. Other draft watchers have joined with the 2 you mention and so far they've come up with:

1 GWS Whitfield

2 GC Mayes

3 MEL Viney

4 MEL Grundy

5 WB Wines

6 WB O'Rourke

7 PA Toumpas

8 BL Garlett

My point is that the only pick that everyone agrees on right now is Whitfield at 1, after that it's all conjecture and opinion. Some clearly rate Viney in the top 5, others don't.

I also disagree that you don't ever use high picks on a ruckman, every kid should be judged on their talent. Ottens was a high pick and he was the most important player in Geelong's success imo. Not the best player but the most important to their setup and structure. Rucks that can win the footy, dispose of it well and kick goals are hard to find.

The phantom drafts are where they think they'll be taken. Guessing what will transpire re bluff & bravado with The Giants & Suns Re the Ambit bid on Viney.

'Knightmare' & 'Chris', from Big Footy, put down their observations & thoughts on each player & have been doing so for many a Year.

I'll say it again, he's not as good with his disposals &/or decision making as the likes of Toumpas re kicking, finding targets, or Wines re inside work & finding the right targets.

Whitfield with his Gut Run & Elite kicking from both sides & decision making, although is an outside player at this point can negotiate traffic well.

O'Rourke & Vlastuin are just as hard as Viney & match him as well with disposals & decision making.

Then there's Stringer who has the inside game winning the hard ball + the outside work & marking,, & a Forward to boot.

Viney is a great little player, but hes around 8 to 12.

I'd say Plowman would be rated higher & I think he'll go to the Doggies with one of they're early picks. Either Plowman or Stringer to doggies.