End of Year "cull" ...

[jurrahcane 70]

At year end, we can get rid of Spencer, Morton, Bennell all gone for me for sure. Trades for Bennell & Morton possible.

50/50: Green (agility gone, and now looking slow), Fitzpatrick (hmmm, potential yes but hard to see as a key fwd or as a genuine ruck)Petterd (not moving ahead ... desire ?), Jetta (not shown enough despite injuries), Bate (good at VFL but barely an AFL regular... Bulldogs still interested?), Bail (doesn't get it enough, 12-13 possessions is his go). 3 or 4 0f this 6 here will go.

Need 6 to move on... as we add Nicholson to the main list.

Need picks 3,4, 12, 24, 44 + Nicho rookie elevation. Maybe Koby Stevens in for Morton or Bennell.

Safe: Grimes, Jones, Trengove, Clark, Rivers, T Mcd, Watts, J Mcd, J McK, Garland, Howe, Tapscott, Sylvia, Jamar, Sellar, Blease, Frawley, Gysberts, Martin, Cook, Magner Tynan, Taggert, Jurrah, Dunn,Davis, Gawn (just), Davey (just as 1 more year on contract) & Moloney (just)

[demonkeaney 61]

Gawn just safe?? On what do you base that on??? Yeh im sure he's real close to getting delisted

[DEELIRIOUS 156]

Jake Spencer is the first to go! Him and Bennel!

[titan_uranus 25,045]

Ignoring contractual statuses:

Bate, Dunn, Spencer, Bennell, Jetta, Morton, Green and Moloney ought all be in danger.

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

Moloney, Davey and Joel MacDonald all must go.

My delists would be:

Bartram

Bate

Bennell

Morton

Spencer

Jetta

Petterd

Davey

Green

MacDonald

Moloney

Sylvia and Stef Martin on the trade-table

Jordie McKenzie is on extremely thin ice as well. His kicking is below VAFA standard and he can't run out of sight. Seems to never do a pre-season so I'm willing to give him another chance off a full pre-season, but needs to develop quickly because at this stage he is just an ok tagger and exceptional turnover merchant. We could get one of our other turnover merchants like Grimes or Bail to easily play this roll.

Anyone who argues these players are any good and should be kept...have a look at where we have been on the ladder for 5 years.

[Nasher 33,617]

Bate, Dunn, Spencer, Bennell, Jetta, Petterd, Green gone on the first pass, and that's just those that aren't contracted. Would happily scotch Bail at this point too, though there's more to work with there IMO.

Three weeks ago I had Joel Macdonald in there too, but the Garland-Rivers movement changes the balance back there. He was filling in until Tom McDonald got up to scratch last year but Garland's exit puts him higher in the pecking order; now he's filling in until Troy Davis gets up to scratch.

[Nasher 33,617]

Jordie McKenzie is on extremely thin ice as well. His kicking is below VAFA standard and he can't run out of sight. Seems to never do a pre-season so I'm willing to give him another chance off a full pre-season, but needs to develop quickly because at this stage he is just an ok tagger and exceptional turnover merchant. We could get one of our other turnover merchants like Grimes or Bail to easily play this roll.

I'd delist you on that effort. Delist McKenzie LOL

When he's been passed by better players I might open my mind to the possibility of delisting him, and when that happens I'm sure he'll have a disappointed smile on his face, nod his head and take it on the chin. Until then, he stays. He's harder at it than any other player on our list bar none.

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

I'd delist you on that effort. Delist McKenzie LOL

When he's been passed by better players I might open my mind to the possibility of delisting him, and when that happens I'm sure he'll have a disappointed smile on his face, nod his head and take it on the chin. Until then, he stays. He's harder at it than any other player on our list bar none.

Jordie's effort can't be questioned and he is very hard at it but his kicking and pace are so far below AFL standard it's ridiculous. He missed targets today by 15m. You can only carry so many one-paced, poor kicks on a list. We seem to have more than our fair share in Grimes, Trengove, Magner, McKenzie, Moloney, Bate, Bail. They're everywhere!

[BIG JIM 508]

We could delist about 12 players easy from this MFC team.

You just cant carry this many spuds at this level.

We are in some real trouble if we dont make finals next year IMO

6 years with no finals is just shocking after the picks we have had.

This draft is going to give this club one last chance with this list.

Mark neeld has a big job coming up and i am sure he will show no mercey as this is his once in a life time shot as coach.

I think there will be one or two big name moved on at years end.

I have a bad feeling that blease will not be with the dees in 2013.

Im sick of looking forward to draft picks.

Cant wait for the day i just go to the footy and know my team has a chance to win every week again.

Its been a long hard 6 years for every demon fan.Its time for the MFC to do something for its loyal fans.

just bloody start winning Melbourne

[Robot Devil 1,895]

Im sick of looking forward to draft picks.

Cant wait for the day i just go to the footy and know my team has a chance to win every week again.

Its been a long hard 6 years for every demon fan.Its time for the MFC to do something for its loyal fans.

just bloody start winning Melbourne

This. Well said. I hope one year from now will tell the tale.

[GOLF 13]

Moloney, Davey and Joel MacDonald all must go.

My delists would be:

Bartram

Bate

Bennell

Morton

Spencer

Jetta

Petterd

Davey

Green

MacDonald

Moloney

Sylvia and Stef Martin on the trade-table

Jordie McKenzie is on extremely thin ice as well. His kicking is below VAFA standard and he can't run out of sight. Seems to never do a pre-season so I'm willing to give him another chance off a full pre-season, but needs to develop quickly because at this stage he is just an ok tagger and exceptional turnover merchant. We could get one of our other turnover merchants like Grimes or Bail to easily play this roll.

Anyone who argues these players are any good and should be kept...have a look at where we have been on the ladder for 5 years.

That's 11 draft picks required. Just what sort of quality do you expect to get around pick 120?

Bate, Dunn, Spencer, Bennell, Jetta, Petterd, Green gone on the first pass, and that's just those that aren't contracted. Would happily scotch Bail at this point too, though there's more to work with there IMO.

Three weeks ago I had Joel Macdonald in there too, but the Garland-Rivers movement changes the balance back there. He was filling in until Tom McDonald got up to scratch last year but Garland's exit puts him higher in the pecking order; now he's filling in until Troy Davis gets up to scratch.

Even you Nasher are going a long way into the draft. Our fifth pick will be around 42-44. If you get rid of two more, plus possibly Bail, you will have us going out to 79 or 97. Not much star quality comes from picks like that.

Best to delist 5, 6 at most, promote some rookies and look for new rookies.

[Ned 156]

Someone has to make the call - get rid of the lot of them. Maybe we can then recruit Collingwood's team or Geelong's?

[Macca 17,041]

That's 11 draft picks required. Just what sort of quality do you expect to get around pick 120?

Even you Nasher are going a long way into the draft. Our fifth pick will be around 42-44. If you get rid of two more, plus possibly Bail, you will have us going out to 79 or 97. Not much star quality comes from picks like that.

Best to delist 5, 6 at most, promote some rookies and look for new rookies.

There are 70 odd free agents available at seasons end and we can also trade players/picks for other players/picks . We could , in theory , delist or trade quite a number of players . Though 10-12 would probably be the maximum .

As an example ...

National Draft - picks 3 , 4 , 12 , 23 , 41 and 59 .

Trade 3 players out for 5 players/draft picks in . (Some of our players with currency may seek a move or the club may try to trade a player or 2 for mutual benefit)

Pick up 2/3 Free Agents - midfielders ? (this IMO , is highly likely)

If the club enacted the above we'd need to delist or trade 10/11 players .

I believe we'll delist or trade 8 or 9 players . It's worth remembering that we still have 22(?) players out of contract (this doesn't include rookies) .

Edited July 1, 2012 by Macca

[beelzebub 23,383]

I fully expect Neeld to go shopping amongst the 'other ' leagues..

A cull is on for sure. Therell be some attrition.....and some serious delisitngs. Im very disappointed in Petterd and just have a gut feeling theres more to this and he might still see daylight next year. Its an odd year for him. Youd expect Green to retire, but he might not..

Most likely 2 -3 new rookies..and 6 trade/drafts.

[Dannyz 2,852]

The way I see it we need a cull as of now, not the end of the season.

Neeld faces a decision - Continue to accept the years of mediocrity from Dunn, Morton Bate, Davey and to an extent Spencer and Bennell or get valuable game time into Tapscott, Strauss, Tynan, Cook and Taggart who will probably become better players longer-term.

[Little Goffy 14,645]

I was mulling this over today actually.

I would expect our inclusions to count a full set of 4 mids from the first 4 picks (3,4,12ish, 22ish) , 2 rookie upgrades (Nicholson & Magner), an a possible extra, such as Chris Knights through free agency.

My list, in order of most likely to 'go', runs -

Green - Retires

Spencer - today's game just confirmed he is not AFL, for all his fight.

Bate and Dunn - 25 year olds with approx 100 games to their name who still only breakin because of injuries, and who wll be quite redundant following our next draft.

MacDonald - Much the same sitation as Bate and Dunn.

Jetta and Bennell - Another pair whose fates seem to be in step, for dfferent reasons. If you could combine the strengths of each, you'd have a great player, but they are simply not 'complete' enough for AFL. Possible re-rookie option?

Morton - sometimes nice, sometimes a fright. Might just be moved on politely, but may well stay another year, or even be rookied.

Petterd - This breaks my heart, and I'm desperately hoping he'll step up and give some good games late in the year. I'd persevere because I see him as being as versatile and valuable as Howe is shaping to be. But quite possibly he could fee ike he is stagnating admight want to move on for his own reasons with the clubs sad blessing.

I am still a softie at heart though - at the very least I hope Dunn plays out every game for the season to each the 100 milestone. And let's face it, a few of those guys would be quite handy as mature bodies for a club like Gold Coast, Warnock style.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Assuming a 16th place finish and short of an astounding deal, I don't believe we will part with Picks 3 or 4. 12 is a possibility but still only a maybe. So having that in mind i believe we will be looking at the following situation:

Draft picks 3, 4, 12, 23 and 3rd round all to be used.

Rookie upgrade of Nicho with 4th round pick.

That's 6 additions to the list.

I believe that we will shop around a few players and try to get deals done most likely to improve draft picks.

Bate, Dunn, Spencer, Jetta and Bennell will be straight up de-listed or maybe traded for very low value picks.

That's 5.

Then a decision by Green on his future may dictate what else takes place.

Petterd i believe is in the boat for a trade (his form or lack thereof still baffles me somewhat tho!). He may be retained if no suitable trade is found.

Much to many people's chagrin, i don't believe Morton will go anywhere unless someone offers a decent trade to us (and that is unlikely).

Blokes like Fitzpatrick and Davis might be in a borderline situation depending on how many players the FD wants to turn over.

It won't be the list cull that many round here hope and are baying for but there is certainly some dead wood that will be moved on.

[tonatopia 278]

Mark neeld!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,321]

Watching the game today I had a revelation that a large proportion or majority of our list are not good enough to be consistent top 4. I'm not talking about needing another draft of kids to come through and getting games into our kids. At the moment it is more a question of who stays rather than who goes. Some guys like Trengove, Watts, Tapscott and Howe have time on their side but havent as yet shown they can be top shelf players. Others like Spencer, Bate, Dunn, Moloney, Bennell, Sellar, Jetta, Martin, MacDonald etc are complete spuds who will be lucky to be on an AFL list next year although Sellar perhaps "could" be a role player. I'm not a fan of Jamar and the fact Jones is our best midfielder says a hell of a lot.

We have kids like Gysberts, Strauss, Tynan, Taggert, Cook who still haven't fired a shot but who knows if they will come on or have what it takes. Then the older guys like Green, Davey, Rivers are either past it or will be by the time we finally get a team together who can play fInals let alone finish top 4. Who knows if Gawn will be able to make a career for himself, Fitzpatrick has looked way out of his depth in the two games he's had and who knows what the hell has happened to Petterd this year.

All in all we need a complete overhaul of our list - there are roles for guys like Bartram & McKenzie but you can't have them in the same team as Magner, Nicholson, Bail etc. Pen in guys like Clark, Frawley, Jones and the kids like Trengove, Tapscott, Watts etc and try to build a team around that. Most of the rest of the list all need to be chopped - the fact that most of them would struggle to get a game at GWS or GC should tell us something.

[snomed1964 9]

Reading this thread just blows my mind. You blokes are unbelievable.

You are all just a bunch of Dorothys - just click your heels three times and a decent team will pop up from nowhere.

If we delist all the players mentioned in this thread we will stay down the bottom for another ten years - you can't just draft a new team from nowhere - it evolves over time. With a new coach we need time to let the team develop.

With this in mind Bate, Morton, Pettard, Moloney and Bartram at the very least must stay - all mature bodies, all played 50 - 150 games.

I would argue that Green and Davey should too - I think we all agree that we moved Juinior on to soon and these blokes are in the same catergory.

Patience Grasshopper Patience

[Je Roos Salem 661]

For those who are interested and those criticizing McKenzie's kicking, I think this is very intriguing:

2011- 15 games- 83 kicks, 217 handballs (Avg 20 possessions) Avg Tackles: 6.7. Frees 24 Frees against 16- McKenzie was one of our best few for the season (despite the injury), hard at it contested player who everyone was happy about.

2012 so far- 13 games- 110 kicks, 96 handballs (Avg 15.8 possessions) Avg tackles: 5.8. Frees 19 frees against 26

As you can see the stats have dropped but his kick to handball ratio has dramatically changed. Has Neeld instructed him to kick more and become more of an outside player? From what I concur McKenzie is better when handballing more

[BAMF 4,387]

Bail wont be going anywhere.

[Bad Demon Pun 15]

Bail wont be going anywhere.

Why pray tell do you say this with such authority? Does he play a specific role with great aplomb ? Does he play consistently with hardness and decisiveness or with natural flair and skill? He's averaged less than 13 possessions a game this year and it's his fourth year on our list. I'd say he is and should be far from safe.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

For me, end of the season I'd be looking at not moving that many on.

RETIRE: Green

FREE AGENTS: Bate (Bulldogs?), Dunn (Carlton?)

DELIST: Spencer, Lawrence

TRADE: Petterd & third round pick to Lions for their 2nd round pick.

Bennell and same 2nd round pick to West Coast for Stevens?

Gives us live picks with 3, 4, 13 & 26 (assuming we finish 16th)

Upgrade: Magner

Sign Shannon Byrnes as a free agent for a crumbing forward

Nicho & Evans get a third and final year on the rookie list

Shehan, Couch & Williams get a 2nd year on rookie list

1 pick in the rookie draft.

[Theo 276]

For me, end of the season I'd be looking at not moving that many on.

RETIRE: Green

FREE AGENTS: Bate (Bulldogs?), Dunn (Carlton?)

DELIST: Spencer, Lawrence

TRADE: Petterd & third round pick to Lions for their 2nd round pick.

Bennell and same 2nd round pick to West Coast for Stevens?

Gives us live picks with 3, 4, 13 & 26 (assuming we finish 16th)

Upgrade: Magner

Sign Shannon Byrnes as a free agent for a crumbing forward

Nicho & Evans get a third and final year on the rookie list

Shehan, Couch & Williams get a 2nd year on rookie list

1 pick in the rookie draft.

What's this love for Magner. He might be tough but he is not a creative player. His disposal is average with minimal penetration, goes to ground all the time and looks like he is running in quicksand he is so slow.

Keep Jordie and only upgrade Nicholson as he has pace and can break the lines.