David Schartz on SEN at 4.20pm today

[mdemonski2 403]

Absolutely spot on Ox. I think the players should be made to hear that tomorrow. Reflects exactly what we all think at the moment. I think he should have gone even further and pulled out some names of the blokes playing like they are worth 2.50. But we all know who they are, but do the players?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Me too.

I'm posting this because there's no way this could be posted too often:

[media=]

This is the post you replied to:

I don't see that jumbo's post was necessarily about Schwarz's 'foibles', as you call them, since you could certainly argue that Schwarz had enough to overcome with his injuries and his Dad etc.

Even if Schwarz's 'foibles' were part of what jumbo was referring to I don't see that it was deriding Schwartz.

Just watched this exact same video rogue, watching these older clips really shows how little our players care atm imo. The teams in these video's loved it.

In saying this it is hard to be up and about when you are losing EVERY game, we would be just as [censored] off if they were celebrating like this while down by 60.......hard to please

[DemonOX 8,800]

The Ox was spot on and loved the way he spoke with passion and clarity.

If we could only clone him a few times we wouldnt be where we are atm.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Ahaha I just realized with the incorrect spelling of Schwartz that the title of this thread actually reads:

David sharts on SEN at 4.20pm today...

Now i know SEN can be rubbish at times but you didnt have to shart on them David.

*sigh* toilet humour is all I have left...:-(

[skills32 229]

The ox is spot on with the key word being having a 'dip'.

[darkhorse72 1,925]

He spoke the truth...no to see what happens with the players.

[Talleycat 13]

spot on schwarz hit the nail on the head big clean out coming thank god good luck to the future super brats no other afl club will put up with your crap

[Pates 9,660]

Schwartz touched on a point that really cuts at me in our situation. The players CBA forces us to pay 92% (or whatever it is) of the cap, but our players don't deserve it, they are on extremely good coin doing the job they dreamed of as kids, but they are doing it half assed.

Good points raised in a very passionate way, would expect nothing less from The Ox.

[True Believer 1]

schwartz magic .... if the guys could play with half the guts and passion as David, I would be happy.

[baysidedave 246]

agree with everything he said, they are insipid pathetic human beans and l can think of about 10 who should go now including, Davey, Moloney, Jamar and a few more

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Schartz said he had something to say about the Demons tonight and while I was expecting and got some of the usual/same nuggets going around about where we are at and the playing group, I was blown away with his passion and his clarity. He was annimated like I have never heard him before.

He said you cant blame the administration when they lost their major sponsor and were able to quickly find replacements in a difficult market.

He said you cant blame the coach or coaches because we havent seen the players apply themselves in a way that even indicates whether he or they can coach or not.

He said that the problem is squarely with the playing group (old news I know) and then he cut sick. He said we have players drawing $400-$500 K and putting in efforst worth $2.50. He said some of rthe players should be thinking about giving their salaries back. He said that he has never seen a sitaution before where players were choosing whether to 'turn up' or not. He said it was obvious some players just dont care and arent making any effort.

he went on to reiterate the fact that football means the world to many supporters (highlighting a bloke that microwaved his north Melb membership) and that it was flying in the face of the supporters when you choose not to put an effort in.

The part that really caught my ear and the part that most would be surprised with was at the end when he said that basically 'he couldnt care less if 15 players on that list dont get another game until they put in effort or ever again at all.'

Reasonably biting words from an ex player but accurate.

Not too much new there but that was his take on the whole sitaution and I must say I agreed with it all.

This from a guy who absolutely loved the club, fought hard right to the end to keep himself on the park and as has been mentioned, had the opportunity that these guys take for granted all but taken away from him by injuries. I wanted to link to his farewell to the playing group when he retired, but a quick search of YouTube failed to turn it up. Possibly the most eloquent and emotional display I have seen from him. If he is finding the attitude of the players lacking, this is an opinion worth listening to.

[Adam The God 30,404]

I'm in two minds about this.

On one hand I agree with the frustration show by all MFC supporters (both public and private figures) and think the laziness and sense of entitlement of the senior players is a legacy from prior coaches and administrations. I think the senior players need a big boot up their arse and a few (most?) of them should be on the chopping block at the end of the year.

On the other hand though (and something I've only really considered over the last couple of days) I think we have to bear in mind the training load the new FD is making the players go through where they are basically continuing to do pre-season work throughout the season in order to get their fitness levels up for 2013 and beyond. If they are doing heavy mid-week sessions when other clubs are resting and recuperating then I think it is no wonder that they look lacklustre and as though they are not trying on game day.

If they are training heavily I don't think this is a bad thing as we definitely have a legacy of lack of fitness with the playing group.

However if they are being bashed from pillar to post by all and sundry (including media, supporters and former players) and are getting belted on the field every week then I can see the players losing confidence in Neeld and the FD very shortly. Basically they are having their legs taken out from them by the FD and then left to cop all the flak.

I don't think there is a real answer as I think it is a necessary evil for the club to go through in order to get up to "elite" standards however having former players and supporters all sticking the boot in certainly won't do anything to help the situation.

Nathan Jones, Jack Watts and Sam Blease should be enough to illustrate that overloading's not the issue here.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

...............Unnecessary and irrelevant to comment on Ox's past.

FWIW, I am aware of Ox's foibles but I admire his battle against them since he retired.

Ahem, a classic case of misinterpretation. I took Jumbo's post to mean Ox's battles on the field - knees and the like.

[nutbean 8,838]

Its his opinion but its pretty much the same opinion as most of the supporter base.

It is not the opinion of all. There has been discussions on this board calling for the sacking of the board to various administrators and coaches. Supporters looking for the "root of the problem". I have said that looking past the players is a cop out. I will temper that with the statement that if there are problems outside the playing group they need to be addressed but at the end of the day the players are the only ones who can pull on the jumper and make a difference on the field.

I can accept games like StKilda and the Bulldogs where our skills, learning new games plans/structures/ideas and inexperience cost us the game. I cannot accept games like the last two where a small part of above contributed to the losses but the major part is not caring and having a red hot go.

[H_T 3,049]

Very easy to dismiss Ox's comments by those who don't listen to him or respect his opinion.

Yet many blame administrations and coaching when time and again the very players Ox is referring to are the very reason we end up getting belted time and again. Yet when they turn up against the like of StKilda they're seen as competitive.

He was sick of seeing players decide to turn it on when they want to. I am with him on this.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

Very easy to dismiss Ox's comments by those who don't listen to him or respect his opinion.

Yet many blame administrations and coaching when time and again the very players Ox is referring to are the very reason we end up getting belted time and again. Yet when they turn up against the like of StKilda they're seen as competitive.

He was sick of seeing players decide to turn it on when they want to. I am with him on this.

And it is the CLUB that has allowed this to happen.

What other club has players who can decide whether to "turn it on" today...?

Neeld & Neil Craig & Misson have a huge task, but if they get it right it will be the most reward they will ever get.

[rpfc 28,761]

Wears his big heart on his sleeve does the great man.

He sounds like a Lander...

[monoccular 17,573]

Viewing that clip still brings tears to my eye. Pre-knee we had an absolute superstar. IMO he would have relegated Carey to #2 of the era.

It would be salutary to bring him along to give the pre-game address this weekend: how many, particularly of the 4+ year players could honestly look him fair and square in the eye? Very few I reckon. Sadly though I doubt if too many would feel any shame.

[Mac7 309]

Ox said the best thing I have heard about Melbourne in recent days:

''At the moment, there are Melbourne players going out there being very happy to be playing for the club on their terms. At the moment, if Melbourne players want to go out there, be selfish and do it their way, well, they can go, they can leave the club,'' he said.

''The way it sits right now is that we have a new coach who has come into the system, is trying to reorganize and dismantle what was before him, put together a new game plan and, for that, the players have to fit into the way he wants to play.

''Whether you like the coach or not, or think the coach can coach or not, is irrelevant. It doesn't stop a player from having a dip.

[PaulRB 6,411]

Love to see the Ox and Lyon rock up to training and tell a couple of the senior boys directly what they think of their efforts.

[nutbean 8,838]

Ox said the best thing I have heard about Melbourne in recent days:

''At the moment, there are Melbourne players going out there being very happy to be playing for the club on their terms. At the moment, if Melbourne players want to go out there, be selfish and do it their way, well, they can go, they can leave the club,'' he said.

''The way it sits right now is that we have a new coach who has come into the system, is trying to reorganize and dismantle what was before him, put together a new game plan and, for that, the players have to fit into the way he wants to play.

''Whether you like the coach or not, or think the coach can coach or not, is irrelevant. It doesn't stop a player from having a dip.

Which is why I will keep banging on that deflecting criticism away from the players is a cop out of the highest order.

[monoccular 17,573]

Which is why I will keep banging on that deflecting criticism away from the players is a cop out of the highest order.

Hear here!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,274]

Nathan Jones, Jack Watts and Sam Blease should be enough to illustrate that overloading's not the issue here.

Not so sure about that. Jones is a workhorse who has improved but showed similar signs last year. Probably our most consistently competitive player.

Watts? He still struggles to run out halves and games and was burnt by Fisher in the Saints game.

Blease? He's hardly played all year, don't know how you can hang your hat on that.

I'm not offering excuses for the players as I think there is definitely some "blame" to be put on them - they ahve been underperforming for years (even before Bailey) after all and have been consistently soft front-runners who shy away from hard work and pressure. However if they are being handicapped by the training regime at the moment it would be difficult for them to compete on game day with other teams who 1) already have the elite fitness base we strive for and 2) are able to rest and recuperate during the week instead of going through another gruelling training session.

Now I'm not saying that the training load is necessarily a bad thing, I think it is a necessary evil with a view to 2013 and getting us fit ASAP without having to wait until 2014 potentially (and 2 more pre-seasons) to get them up to speed. However it may be unfair to give the players the reaction they are currently receiving if this is the case and if they are left to cop the flak for poor performances due to the actions of the FD the I can't see any perceived rift between the two healing any time soon.

So what is the answer? I think we need to support the CLUB through this period and stand by them to do the right thing. The club includes all facets be they the coach, FD, players, CEO or board. As supporters looking from the outside in I think it is impossible to assess and critique them (particularly Neeld and the new FD but also some of the players ) until at least next year when they have had time to settle and implement the strategies put in place that will hopefully see us succeed.

This collective losing our [censored] which has gone on since Saturday is pretty embarrassing. I understand people's frustrations (be they with the coach, players, CEO etc) but can we at least give them a chance to prove themselves before wanting to raze the entire club to the ground?

[Jack Jack 415]

Which is why I will keep banging on that deflecting criticism away from the players is a cop out of the highest order.

But surely the coaches deserve criticism too. They're either failing in communicating their message to the players or they're perpetuating the problem by leaving petulant players in the team.

Does Neeld want a hard team without having to make hard decisions? Are the players picking the team?

Both the players AND the coaches deserve criticism.

[bing181 9,328]

But surely the coaches deserve criticism too.

The discussion here, and Ox's comments, isn't about what's working or what's not, or what game plan we're supposed to be playing or not. This isn't even about training load. It's simply about professional football players giving a 100% each time they run onto the field.

Which has nothing to do with the coaches.

Ironically enough, perhaps if the players gave it a decent crack, and at the very least tried to do what they're being told to do, we might then be able to get to understand where the coaches are at. Which would expose them to criticism if it wasn't working.