Bring him back!!!!

[Guest José Mourinho]

I don't agree Jose. I brought this instance up on O'logy, and agree with others here. You don't have to throw him to ground in anger, a firm tackle to bring him to ground and keep him from having any influence of proceedings is required in today's game. Like Ben, it's a non negotiable. It's what other footballers of opposition teams (not all players admittedly, but te players of well coached sides) do and do well.

The Geelong player immediately resumed chasing the Casey players and Watts was left standing there thinking "jobs done".

It's one of many instances on the footy field - the 1%'s - that infuriates me if not carried out. Heck, I see the GWS boys doing it, they're underweight. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Anyone should be able to help a teammate and impede them legally.

I think there's a propensity to indict the player based on 3 seconds of footage.

You may be right.

But you can't see what is ahead or behind.

You can't tell what his instructions are.

You CAN see the ball spill free from the tackle, and 2 of Watts' teammates stream past, Blease shepherding while another collects it.

Watts DID let the player free a moment too early, as he could have affected the contest. But he didn't.

He didn't chase. But we can't see what's ahead that would lead to him to maintain his position.

It also could be very possible he was looking to stick to structures.

Or use a tactic I've used many times, of giving off body language to my opponent that I'm not interested in getting involved, before burning him the split-second his attention lapses.

The glance back was a split second and could've been anything.

It looked like disdain, and that would be fair, but that's just trash talk and gamesmanship.

Any excuse to make it appear your opponent is soft and you've got one over him.

Didn't seem to both Watts (some would say that's the problem, but at least it wasn't in a negative way - he's ambivalent).

I'm simply not gonna hang the kid on a 5 second close-angle clip.

The required intensity wasn't there, and I support him staying in the VFL based on that.

Watts didn't hold up 47 (it's Ryan Bathie) as long as he should have or with enough intent.

But that alone, and the rest is hyperbole.

And it's not like it's something new, or that it still can't be fixed.

[daisycutter 29,616]

I think there's a propensity to indict the player based on 3 seconds of footage.

You may be right.

But you can't see what is ahead or behind.

You can't tell what his instructions are.

You CAN see the ball spill free from the tackle, and 2 of Watts' teammates stream past, Blease shepherding while another collects it.

Watts DID let the player free a moment too early, as he could have affected the contest. But he didn't.

He didn't chase. But we can't see what's ahead that would lead to him to maintain his position.

It also could be very possible he was looking to stick to structures.

Or use a tactic I've used many times, of giving off body language to my opponent that I'm not interested in getting involved, before burning him the split-second his attention lapses.

The glance back was a split second and could've been anything.

It looked like disdain, and that would be fair, but that's just trash talk and gamesmanship.

Any excuse to make it appear your opponent is soft and you've got one over him.

Didn't seem to both Watts (some would say that's the problem, but at least it wasn't in a negative way - he's ambivalent).

I'm simply not gonna hang the kid on a 5 second close-angle clip.

The required intensity wasn't there, and I support him staying in the VFL based on that.

Watts didn't hold up 47 (it's Ryan Bathie) as long as he should have or with enough intent.

But that alone, and the rest is hyperbole.

And it's not like it's something new, or that it still can't be fixed.

Well I certainly am not judging his tackling ability on just that one highlighted instance

problem is there isn't many other instances, and that is part of the problem

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Jose, you need to stop defending Jack Watts purely for the sake of defending Jack Watts.

One think that's the common denominator is:

He needs to lift his mongrel AND

We all want him to do well.

[RudeBoy 164]

I saw all the Casey game last week and was impressed by Watts' game. He read the play well, marked well and kicked well...including 4 goals.

It seems like many are disappointed that he is not a tough brute of a player. He's not. What he is, is a very talented footballer who must be an important part of a successful Dees team. For mine, I would never have dropped him, but perhaps used him in defence to fast track the defensive side to his game.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Holy Moses Jose.

You have got to be kidding.

Cyril Rioli's tackle on Max Rooke in the granny of 08. I have never read such

a pathetic excuse. You are asking for people to give Watts time before he is 'developed'

enough to bring down and bigger bloke..?

If the guy tackled with the same intent and desire as someone like Rioli, he would be bringing

down anyone in his path.

Please stop with these ludicrous excuses about strength and size. It's all mental for Watts. All in his head.

Edited May 11, 2012 by stevethemanjordan

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

DefinItely DO NOT bring him back! At least not straight away, otherwise we've wasted a fabulous chance of Wattsy "getting it" i reckon.

Has the "potential" to be a great forward in the ilk of Dermott. Needs to find the mongrel though (obviously). If he finds this, he'll go on to be one of our greats i think. If he doesn't...well....

At least 2 weeks helping out in the ruck (after some decent coaching from a former ruck great or whoever our ruck coach is ...assuming we have one). Probably need assistance in the ruck anyway to help out at VFL level with Fitzy moving upstairs. Assuming he does what's asked and hits the contest hard, spreads well, gets to plenty of other contests (impacting them) etc...then take him to the next step (below). No he aint no ruckman, but there's absolutely no where to hide in the middle and some around the ground work going for the ball up. He either brings the attack, intensity and uses his body (to the best of his capability/strength at this point of his early development) or he don't. Don't even need him to beat his opponent as such. It's the intensity, attack and fearlessness i'd be looking for. In fact he'll probably get smashed in that role. But that's ok (subject to no major injury of course).

Assuming he does what's asked.... then move him upstairs to match up on some of the greats of the game down back. Make him accountable and take on a role where he'll not only earn his place but learn forward work off some of the best in the AFL. 6 - to 8 matches here. Hopefully he'll hold his own and keep his opponent reasonably quiet (depending on what's happening up the field of course etc). Even get some assistance/advice from Dermott re forward work and possibly an insight in to how to man up defensively on forwards etc.

Then throw him forward for the last 3rd of the year say.....assuming he's earned his place down back and the FD feel his good to go for a stint up forward.

My opinion means nothing, but this is how i'd like to see the FD try with Watts for the rest of this year. If he finds his mongrel and his mojo down back (one on one) and then up forward later in the year, then we've got a potential super star just around the corner (ie., from next year onwards).

I really believe if he finds the mongrel and has a big learning curve during this year, he could end up being as good as (or very close to) a Dermott up forward (at least as returns and value go.....not necessarily playing with the all out Dermy attack and grunt....but i live in hope!).

Edited May 11, 2012 by Rusty Nails

[Guest José Mourinho]

Holy Moses Jose.

You have got to be kidding.

Cyril Rioli's tackle on Max Rooke in the granny of 08. I have never read such

a pathetic excuse. You are asking for people to give Watts time before he is 'developed'

enough to bring down and bigger bloke..?

If the guy tackled with the same intent and desire as someone like Rioli, he would be bringing

down anyone in his path.

Please stop with these ludicrous excuses about Tstrength and size. It's all mental for Watts. All in his head.

Hey, I accept that some people won't be able to grasp some of the concepts.

Happens all the time.

The majority of it is mental, but it's not the only thing.

What has Cyril got over Watts when tackling Rooke?

A much lower centre of gravity.

If you don't understand that and the effect it has, that's your problem.

If it makes you feel better to stick knives in a kid, go for your life.

Edited May 11, 2012 by José Mourinho

[Guest José Mourinho]

Jose, you need to stop defending Jack Watts purely for the sake of defending Jack Watts.

One think that's the common denominator is:

He needs to lift his mongrel AND

We all want him to do well.

That's your shallow understanding of what I'm saying.

But I agree the amount of mongrel needs to lift.

I'm just not ignorant enough to think that's his only problem.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Hey, I accept that some people won't be able to grasp some of the concepts.

Happens all the time.

The majority of it is mental, but it's not the only thing.

What has Cyril got over Watts when tackling Rooke?

A much lower centre of gravity.

If you don't understand that and the effect it has, that's your problem.

If it makes you feel better to stick knives in a kid, go for your life.

Poor attempt at sarcasm Jose. I have a grasp of all of the 'concepts' you

speak of.

Are you saying that his 'centre of gravity' prohibits him from tackling a bigger

bloke to the ground? Are you saying that if he had tackled that Geelong bloke with

a desire to hurt him an bring him to ground, it wouldn't have worked?

Please tell me otherwise.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Poor attempt at sarcasm Jose. I have a grasp of all of the 'concepts' you

speak of.

Are you saying that his 'centre of gravity' prohibits him from tackling a bigger

bloke to the ground? Are you saying that if he had tackled that Geelong bloke with

a desire to hurt him an bring him to ground, it wouldn't have worked?

Please tell me otherwise.

It makes it a lot more difficult and would have required a lot more obvious effort.

Are you sure that bringing the player to ground unnecessarily, when the ball had already spilled free, would not garner a free kick against?

[daisycutter 29,616]

It makes it a lot more difficult and would have required a lot more obvious effort.

Are you sure that bringing the player to ground unnecessarily, when the ball had already spilled free, would not garner a free kick against?

oh c'mon hose.....you're just digging a bigger hole....give up

i've seen a more violent kiss than that effort at tackling

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Jose...a fierce desire for the contest has little to do with center of gravity

I should know...i am 5.1 so am close to the ground....Jack is in the 2's because he has been told to harden up on & off the field.

4 games at Casey is a good start.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

If it was on form JW would never have been dropped. He had one bad game on a night the all talls were smashed. Hell even Roo was beaten by a rookie. JW has been consistently in our top 5 every week for the last year. JW was dropped for not being hungry enough and not tackling hard enough. I am not convinced dropping him is the answer, this tactic could back fire. However, its the coaches call, if it creates fire in the belly it woudl be awesome. With Casey having back to back byes, Watts will be brought back next week.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

That's your shallow understanding of what I'm saying.

But I agree the amount of mongrel needs to lift.

I'm just not ignorant enough to think that's his only problem.

No worries - you've firmly established how you're going to respond to me (and other posters)

In future, I won't trouble trying to engage with you on any footy discussion.

[Ouch! 2,263]

....Jack is in the 2's because he has been told to harden up on & off the field.

4 games at Casey is a good start.

... Harden up off the field? Seriously?? I think such a comment needs to be backed up WYL. Did Watts get dropped to the twos for hugging his grandmother instead of tackling her?

[Range Rover 1,935]

Posters keep suggesting he'll back next week, after two, after 4 weeks and so on ...

No, he'll be back when he does what Neeld has told him to do. There's no time limit on it.

Any half decent player can kick 4 at Casey. Means nothing.

[Guest Thomo]

Poor attempt at sarcasm Jose. I have a grasp of all of the 'concepts' you

speak of.

Are you saying that his 'centre of gravity' prohibits him from tackling a bigger

bloke to the ground? Are you saying that if he had tackled that Geelong bloke with

a desire to hurt him an bring him to ground, it wouldn't have worked?

Please tell me otherwise.

No worries - you've firmly established how you're going to respond to me (and other posters)

In future, I won't trouble trying to engage with you on any footy discussion.

I thought you two would have recognised the serial pest and not bothered with him.

Jose is the current alias of Enforce, E25, Artie Bucco, Glengary Glenross, Gareth keenan, Arsene Wenger.

He belittles, shouts down and ridicules anyone who has an opinion that is not 100% supportive of the club. Every couple of months he backs himself into a corner and exposes his agenda and makes a fool of himself (as he is now doing). Once this happens he creates a new user name and it begins all over again. Have a look at some of the Dean Bailey and Tom Scully threads for proof of the cancer that he is on this site.

I've been warned from the moderators of this site for exposing his alias, so it seems that his actions are endorsed. It's ruining this site, and why I no longer post. It's also been mentioned on other sites that others do not post for the same reason.

Until the moderators stop endorsing aliases and rid Demonland of this goose they will continue to loose support of those that want to have genuine discussion.

I expect I will get a warning for this post, and the endorsement the belittling and aggressive posts of the Enforcer will continue under a new alias next week.

[jackaub 1,402]

Have a look at the footage.

I saw it and predicted this thoughtless reaction.

It's pretty obvious Kersten is a lot heavier, and Watts would just fail to get him down, looking silly in the process.

It's bloody physics FFS.

High centre of gravity, lack of strength, and lack of weight.

If he had the bulk, then criticism would be justified.

So if I wanted really really badly to be able to flap my arms and fly, could I do it?

It's this sort of mindless "if he wants it enough" guff that is the real embarrassment.

There are other factors to be taken into consideration.

Hey Jose you obviously have never tackled or you wouldnt say that! What factors ? You play, you tackle you compete,yes even if the guy is heavier You ever hear about power, force you ever hear about leverage. Go away and learn some physics

[Hannibal 5,814]

I thought you two would have recognised the serial pest and not bothered with him.

Jose is the current alias of Enforce, E25, Artie Bucco, Glengary Glenross, Gareth keenan, Arsene Wenger.

He belittles, shouts down and ridicules anyone who has an opinion that is not 100% supportive of the club. Every couple of months he backs himself into a corner and exposes his agenda and makes a fool of himself (as he is now doing). Once this happens he creates a new user name and it begins all over again. Have a look at some of the Dean Bailey and Tom Scully threads for proof of the cancer that he is on this site.

I've been warned from the moderators of this site for exposing his alias, so it seems that his actions are endorsed. It's ruining this site, and why I no longer post. It's also been mentioned on other sites that others do not post for the same reason.

Until the moderators stop endorsing aliases and rid Demonland of this goose they will continue to loose support of those that want to have genuine discussion.

I expect I will get a warning for this post, and the endorsement the belittling and aggressive posts of the Enforcer will continue under a new alias next week.

He wasn't GG.

[binman 43,018]

I prefer a hungry Jack .

I do too, at least if the alternative is maccas. If the alternative was Danny's burgers i'd go that option in a flash

[Guest Jackie]

Yes Thomo, he is a serial trouble maker and flamer. Was he also Lutz and Keyser Soze?

Edited May 11, 2012 by Jackie

[binman 43,018]

you got more excuses there than a spin doctor hose

he's big enough, heavy enough, strong enough and been around enough to lay a decent tackle..........if he wanted to

He only recorded one tackle. When i saw the footage i hoped that wasn't it!

[Guest Thomo]

He wasn't GG.

My Mistake. Great movie.

Yes Thomo, he is a serial trouble maker and flamer. Was he also Lutz and Keyser Soze?

Forgot those ones.

I'm logging back out until the mods fix this.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

... Harden up off the field? Seriously?? I think such a comment needs to be backed up WYL. Did Watts get dropped to the twos for hugging his grandmother instead of tackling her?

I have heard a whisper of some trouble, that i cannot back up so i will refrain from telling at this stage...But my source is pretty solid with a few players so i believe it to be pretty good..

I have been sworn to secrecy, and i wish to honour that..in case there is more on the horizon...

I know people on here do not like this grey answer, but that's the way it is for now.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Yes Jos'e has had many different alias's on here...and i must say a lot of people have left these pages in the last 12 months.

Pity, the more the better.