Sylvia Incident (March 2012)

[jnrmac 19,131]

I don't think he even missed a week.

Dangerfield came out and kicked six frigging goals the following week!!!!!!!!!!!

[old dee 22,945]

Dangerfield came out and kicked six frigging goals the following week!!!!!!!!!!!

And Butcher will in the first round

Mean while Sylvia will probably make it back around June

[Steamin Demon 370]

And Butcher will in the first round

Mean while Sylvia will probably make it back around June

Stop being an alarmist OD. Your pessimism of late is getting quite tiresome.

[old dee 22,945]

Stop being an alarmist OD. Your pessimism of late is getting quite tiresome.

I will let you know when I see something postive happen on the field SD

[old dee 22,945]

Stop being an alarmist OD. Your pessimism of late is getting quite tiresome.

You are right it is tiresome even to me

The most depressing part is that for 50 years I was as postive as the most positive on here.

2011 changed all that.

It forced me to leave the emotion aside and look at our playing group in the same way our competitors do.

Add in the performances of the last month and I arrive at today.

Depressed with little to look forward to in 2012.

HOWEVER as a result of your comment I will try very hard for the next few weeks to be positive.

Go Dees

[Steamin Demon 370]

You are right it is tiresome even to me

The most depressing part is that for 50 years I was as postive as the most positive on here.

2011 changed all that.

It forced me to leave the emotion aside and look at our playing group in the same way our competitors do.

Add in the performances of the last month and I arrive at today.

Depressed with little to look forward to in 2012.

HOWEVER as a result of your comment I will try very hard for the next few weeks to be positive.

Go Dees

I like reading you posts OD but the last few weeks you have been quite negative. Let's just look at in real terms. I think our football team can win every game we play but in the cold hard light of day we have a very average football team that might beat other average teams from time to time. That's it pretty much how it is so don't let it get you down.

[old dee 22,945]

I like reading you posts OD but the last few weeks you have been quite negative. Let's just look at in real terms. I think our football team can win every game we play but in the cold hard light of day we have a very average football team that might beat other average teams from time to time. That's it pretty much how it is so don't let it get you down.

I think we are almost in total agreement SD

see ya at the G on 31st March

[Steamin Demon 370]

I think we are almost in total agreement SD

see ya at the G on 31st March

I'll be there mate. We might open the season with a win for change.

[nutbean 8,837]

Butcher SHOULD get nothing for the incident however there has been a habit of the MRP of penalising on outcome/injury.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The player who has eyes for the ball, must be protected at all times. We used to have a rule called "unduly rough play". We even had a kicking in danger rule. Now everything is bracketed under the term "reckless". Whether the contact was made with the head or not, Col was wide open and without protection.

Therefore, Butcher needs to be held accountable. The AFL needs to take into account that as the game gets faster and bodies get harder, they have a duty of care to ensure the potential for career ending injuries is minimised. Spinal injuries, even low grade ones, are not ever to be taken lightly.

[nutbean 8,837]

The player who has eyes for the ball, must be protected at all times. We used to have a rule called "unduly rough play". We even had a kicking in danger rule. Now everything is bracketed under the term "reckless". Whether the contact was made with the head or not, Col was wide open and without protection.

Therefore, Butcher needs to be held accountable. The AFL needs to take into account that as the game gets faster and bodies get harder, they have a duty of care to ensure the potential for career ending injuries is minimised. Spinal injuries, even low grade ones, are not ever to be taken lightly.

I have a problem with this. Whilst it is difficult due to being so subjective I prefer the judgement to be on the type of contact made rather than the end result. Would Butcher (or a fair person) believe that Butcher's attack on the man result in that type of injury. His spoil was only marginally illegal because of the direction he came in from. The injury caused to Colin was due to his landing.

It is like the sling tackles of last year - if the player tackled got up and ran off then no harm done. If the player was carted off then suspension followed.

I hate the idea in football in marginal problems being adjudicated on the severity of the injury.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I have a problem with this. Whilst it is difficult due to being so subjective I prefer the judgement to be on the type of contact made rather than the end result. Would Butcher (or a fair person) believe that Butcher's attack on the man result in that type of injury. His spoil was only marginally illegal because of the direction he came in from. The injury caused to Colin was due to his landing.

It is like the sling tackles of last year - if the player tackled got up and ran off then no harm done. If the player was carted off then suspension followed.

I hate the idea in football in marginal problems being adjudicated on the severity of the injury.

The difference is Col clearly had eyes for the ball and was open to be "taken out". Butcher could not have possibly seen the ball, given the direction he was running, virtually until the contact was made. The "severity" of the injury resulted from that one act. The heavy contact to Col's arm cause him to "spin" viciously in the air, leaving him without any control as to how he landed. Ergo the injury.

[Ouch! 2,041]

The difference is Col clearly had eyes for the ball and was open to be "taken out". Butcher could not have possibly seen the ball, given the direction he was running, virtually until the contact was made. The "severity" of the injury resulted from that one act. The heavy contact to Col's arm cause him to "spin" viciously in the air, leaving him without any control as to how he landed. Ergo the injury.

I read somewhere that the MRP also requested the medical report from MFC, not sure if that's always been the case, but the severity of the injury does appear to be a factor these days...

Call me a cynic but Butcher could be dealt with a little bit more harshly.... just so that they can let off Israel Folau so he is permitted to play in the season opener...

[daisycutter 28,630]

I read somewhere that the MRP also requested the medical report from MFC, not sure if that's always been the case, but the severity of the injury does appear to be a factor these days...

Call me a cynic but Butcher could be dealt with a little bit more harshly.... just so that they can let off Israel Folau so he is permitted to play in the season opener...

and they love setting excessive examples early in the season. expect butcher to be a scapegoat for 'duty of care' and spinal injury protection

[old dee 22,945]

and they love setting excessive examples early in the season. expect butcher to be a scapegoat for 'duty of care' and spinal injury protection

You have more confidence than me DC

I reckon he will get off.

[nutbean 8,837]

The difference is Col clearly had eyes for the ball and was open to be "taken out". Butcher could not have possibly seen the ball, given the direction he was running, virtually until the contact was made. The "severity" of the injury resulted from that one act. The heavy contact to Col's arm cause him to "spin" viciously in the air, leaving him without any control as to how he landed. Ergo the injury.

I understand all that but I just grind my teeth that a player can do the same thing as butcher nine times out of ten and the player will gets up and the only thing that happens is a free kick.

When you punch someone in the head I am happy that if the love tap means the player gets up then one week however when teeth are spat out then 4 weeks. The force of the punch will result in most cases, the extent of the injury. Some tackling ( aka spear tackling) falls into the same boat - the higher you lift and themore pace in the tackle, the more you can expect a worse outcome.

But Butcher's "recklessness" has most on here saying -" gee not much in it". The reason we are debating is because of the outcome. To me this incident is all about the outcome and I hate a case being adjudicated purely on the outcome.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The incident currently under to scrutiny is analogous to "tunneling" in my view.

[nutbean 8,837]

The incident currently under to scrutiny is analogous to "tunneling" in my view.

perhaps summiting ?

[daisycutter 28,630]

perhaps summiting ?

or vertebrating ?

[Redleg 37,891]

Butcher no case to answer. Deemed accidental injury by MRP.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Redleg

[Demon Jim 145]

Butcher no case to answer. Deemed accidental injury by MRP.

What a shock - Col outed for 6 weeks and no case to answer. Seems like pre-season is open season on poor Col. He'd be safer posing as a wetlands duck on the opening day of duck shooting season.

[gsmith12 491]

Butcher cleared by the MRP with our pain eased by the fact that Nate Jones was offered a reprimand.

[old dee 22,945]

Butcher no case to answer. Deemed accidental injury by MRP.

I knew it

So now Sylvia has had a broken jaw and a broken back.

and they are obviously his fault.

[Pates 9,537]

I knew it

So now Sylvia has had a broken jaw and a broken back.

and they are obviously his fault.

The AFL and other people involved in rules (KB) have opening admitted that was a complete stuff up. It's funny though, i was listening to SEN tonight and Finey and Thompson (can't remember which one!) were saying that Butcher definitely should've gone. They then went on to say that it was the Sylvia rule, do whatever you want to him in the final week of pre-season because you'll get off anyway!

Me personally, don't think he should've been suspended but should've been given a reprimand and given a stern warning. I don't think there was any malice, but it was extremely reckless and has seriously injured Colin. Who knows what ramifications he could have in later life because of this? Neck and backs are always bad news.

[jnrmac 19,131]

What a dumb decision but one we have come to expect. It's ostensibly the same as tunneling - where you take out a players lower half of the body whilst they are airborne going for the ball. Highly dangerous.

In this case Butcher didn't take out the lower half of Col's body but caused the same effect by recklessly chopping the arms causing Col's body to rotate sharply and hit the ground totally unprotected.

These morons make it up as they go along,