LOST YEAR?

[old dee 23,787]

You are mistakening fluff at a post game media conference after an appalling to suit your argument that past coaches "accepted mediocirty". And taking positives out of a game is a far more responsible public position than admonishing players in public. I know both ND and DB both lashed players performances individually and as a team behind close doors. And if you are now claiming its the attitude of the players then thats different. And its not earth shattering to suggest days of playing mediocre football are behind us. I would have thought rpfc's straw poll on predictions for the first 11 rounds might have indicated.

And how the year will turn out will be interesting to see.

I am only quoting old dee on one of his really down days. I dont think its necessarily valid.

The difference with WCE is that they had their best six and most expereienced six on the park fit and firing all year in 2011 which they did not in 2010. And there senior six are far better than MFC's senior six.

I agree on the potential upside DL7. I am not buying the gloom many are bathing in so early in the year.

Spot on RR.

I am considering making you my spokesman!

Edited March 13, 2012 by old dee

[pitmaster 3,544]

Predictions for first half of this season:

Bris (@ MCG) - win (30 pts)

WCE (subi) - big loss (50-100 pts)

Rich (MCG) - narrow loss (10 pts)

Bullies (MCG) - narrow win (10 pts)

St K (MCG) - loss (30 pts)

Geelong (Kardinya) - big loss (50 + pts)

Hawthorn (MCG) - big loss (100 + pts)

Sydney (SCG) - loss (30 pts)

Carlton (MCG) - loss (30 pts)

Ess (MCG) - if my predictions before this round are right confidence will be shot so I'm calling it a loss (20 pts)

Coll (MCG) - loss (50 pts)

8 of 11 games at the MCG for 2 wins, maybe 3!!!!

It is a tough first half of the year. I think we'll be around 16th on the ladder at the half way mark of the season.

Happy to be proven wrong of course.

what a misery guts. remind me not to take a holiday with you.

[old dee 23,787]

what a misery guts. remind me not to take a holiday with you.

What is your estimate pitmaster.

Not try to be smart just interested in your view

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think a lot of people are also forgetting 97-98 for Melbourne. When we achieved the exact same result that West Coast got last year with a similar list. 98 was also the year we began with a new coach. I don't think that will be replicated this year by the side but there is a bit too much unrealistic pessimism for my liking in this thread.

We also got Tingay, Lyon, Schwartz, G Lovett back from injury. We got Jeff White as a ready made 1st ruck in the days when you could get 1st ruck like that. It was significantly different personnel available.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Spot on RR.

I am considering making you my spokesman!

Done old timer!

Where shall we go for holidays? B)

[old dee 23,787]

Done old timer!

Where shall we go for holidays? B)

I am free in September RR got any suggestions

[Arrow 1,257]

The difference with WCE is that they had their best six and most expereienced six on the park fit and firing all year in 2011 which they did not in 2010. And there senior six are far better than MFC's senior six.

I agree on the potential upside DL7. I am not buying the gloom many are bathing in so early in the year.

Absolutely RR. If 7 games in we are 0-7 with insipid performances my tone will be very different but after 3 meaningless games the previous 4 days reading have been laughable.

Just looking over some quick comparisons there's nothing to say we shouldn't be following a WCE pathway to success. Our core and spine have similar attributes to theirs.

Rucks- Dean Cox and Mark Jamar- Both All-Australians. Cox a better player but not giving away much.

Key Mids- Matt Priddis/Daniel Kerr & Brent Moloney/Sylvia.Trengove- Moloney and Priddis are similar. Tackling, Clearance machines. Priddis more consistent but both ultra competitive. Where we lack is a Kerr. Which one of our midfielders will turn into the attacking, flair midfielder. This is our biggest need for development in 2012. Who will step up..?

Key Backs- James Frawley and Darren Glass- Whilst Glass took out AA honours for me Frawley is the far superior player. An asset that is invaluable to the Dees.

Key Forwards- Josh Kennedy and Mitch Clark- Kennedy is proven whereas Clark is not but the signs from Pre-season have been excellent. If Clark can kick 45-50 goals and provide a target for each contest we are in the right direction. Obviously he was not with us last year so it's a great asset to have gained.

Next Forward-Darling/ LeCras vs Watts/ Jurrah (Davey). This is the category. We need a second forward and we need a crumber. Watts has an excellent opportunity to step up this year with less responsibility. I don't expect him to be the saviour, I don't give 2 poo's over whether he is better than Hurley or Natainui. I care whether he steps out on our turf and makes his presence felt and gives him all. If he does that I know his skills will make him valuable to our cause in 2012. The crumber is harder now Jurrah will be out for half the season that said they've lost LeCras. But going off last year now Davey will have the chance to come in and be that player. We need forward pressure and someone who as soon as a marking contest is over doesn't make it a rebound 50. Davey CAN do this. It's whether he wants too.

The X- Quentin Lynch and Cale Morton- The most berated player at every club is generally the player everyone is just angry at because they know them playing well will make a team better. The big Q was often thought to be a liability and had to be close to trade bait in 2010 with poor attitude and performance. His lift in 2011 changed the dynamic and started the culture change. Cale Morton can do this for Melbourne. If he can solidify a spot in our best 22 we will become a better team and free up other players. Him finding form will give confidence to Daveys and Watts to show they can lift their game like Lynch did for Butler, Nicoski and Chris Masten; 3 players who before last year I'd prefer to be dead than have in my team.

I'm not for a second saying our 'best' equal their 'best'. I'm saying we have the footwork thanks to Dean in the past and Neeld in the current to produce something. As someone suggested our motto this year should be 'no more excuses'. It's one thing to not have the talent on your list (years 07-10) but when you have the talent and aren't getting the best from it...... well there are literally no excuses.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I am free in September RR got any suggestions

No better place than Paris Old Dee, maybe Florence if you prefer it a bit warmer.

[nutbean 8,838]

You are mistakening fluff at a post game media conference after an appalling to suit your argument that past coaches "accepted mediocirty". And taking positives out of a game is a far more responsible public position than admonishing players in public. I know both ND and DB both lashed players performances individually and as a team behind close doors. And if you are now claiming its the attitude of the players then thats different. And its not earth shattering to suggest days of playing mediocre football are behind us. I would have thought rpfc's straw poll on predictions for the first 11 rounds might have indicated.

And how the year will turn out will be interesting to see.

I am suggesting that there is a reason why our draft selections reach a ceiling and dont get any futher. I do think past coaches did not have the same steel that I THINK I see in Neeld ( time will tell). I believe our development in part has been stymied by past coaches who have not demanded enough of the players and in return the players have not given enough back. I am not basing my impression of Neeld on one presser but what he has said since he arrived. Saying and doing is two different things and whilst I dont expect miracles overnight I feel that we will see some players reach that ugly word "their potential" which has been missing for a number of years

[Bluelegs 36]

Absolutely RR. If 7 games in we are 0-7 with insipid performances my tone will be very different but after 3 meaningless games the previous 4 days reading have been laughable.

Just looking over some quick comparisons there's nothing to say we shouldn't be following a WCE pathway to success. Our core and spine have similar attributes to theirs.

Rucks- Dean Cox and Mark Jamar- Both All-Australians. Cox a better player but not giving away much.

Key Mids- Matt Priddis/Daniel Kerr & Brent Moloney/Sylvia.Trengove- Moloney and Priddis are similar. Tackling, Clearance machines. Priddis more consistent but both ultra competitive. Where we lack is a Kerr. Which one of our midfielders will turn into the attacking, flair midfielder. This is our biggest need for development in 2012. Who will step up..?

Key Backs- James Frawley and Darren Glass- Whilst Glass took out AA honours for me Frawley is the far superior player. An asset that is invaluable to the Dees.

Key Forwards- Josh Kennedy and Mitch Clark- Kennedy is proven whereas Clark is not but the signs from Pre-season have been excellent. If Clark can kick 45-50 goals and provide a target for each contest we are in the right direction. Obviously he was not with us last year so it's a great asset to have gained.

Next Forward-Darling/ LeCras vs Watts/ Jurrah (Davey). This is the category. We need a second forward and we need a crumber. Watts has an excellent opportunity to step up this year with less responsibility. I don't expect him to be the saviour, I don't give 2 poo's over whether he is better than Hurley or Natainui. I care whether he steps out on our turf and makes his presence felt and gives him all. If he does that I know his skills will make him valuable to our cause in 2012. The crumber is harder now Jurrah will be out for half the season that said they've lost LeCras. But going off last year now Davey will have the chance to come in and be that player. We need forward pressure and someone who as soon as a marking contest is over doesn't make it a rebound 50. Davey CAN do this. It's whether he wants too.

The X- Quentin Lynch and Cale Morton- The most berated player at every club is generally the player everyone is just angry at because they know them playing well will make a team better. The big Q was often thought to be a liability and had to be close to trade bait in 2010 with poor attitude and performance. His lift in 2011 changed the dynamic and started the culture change. Cale Morton can do this for Melbourne. If he can solidify a spot in our best 22 we will become a better team and free up other players. Him finding form will give confidence to Daveys and Watts to show they can lift their game like Lynch did for Butler, Nicoski and Chris Masten; 3 players who before last year I'd prefer to be dead than have in my team.

I'm not for a second saying our 'best' equal their 'best'. I'm saying we have the footwork thanks to Dean in the past and Neeld in the current to produce something. As someone suggested our motto this year should be 'no more excuses'. It's one thing to not have the talent on your list (years 07-10) but when you have the talent and aren't getting the best from it...... well there are literally no excuses.

Fantastic post, very constructive, realistic, without too much doom and gloom.

[Pennant St Dee 13,171]

I am so glad those brief trips to the pointy end of the ladder bought you joy.

I was gutted. Hawthorn & Essendon supporters still remind me to this day.

Did we bounce back after those Crushing defeats??? No.

And don't tell me i am impatient...I/we have been more than reasnoable.

I mean all of us are still members. What other company would have such loyal shareholders!!!!

I loved Swooper...but we didn't get no Satisfaction.

WYL as I've said before my greatest joy as a Dees fan to date was Western Oval Round 22 1987 after copping crap in the school yard as the stupid Irish Kid who picked the Dees to follow, my team were finally in September. And yes I was gutted in 1988 & 2000, but I'm not a fairweather supporter clearly none of us born from the 60's onwards are, Premierships are hard to win

You are impatient last week after beating the pies and through the whole preseason you and others were talking us up, now after last weeks defeat lets hang ourselves. I told you and many on here lessons were learnt last year but you all expect Neeld to flick the magical switch, get out some old footage of the Hawks 2002-2007 many a good kicking in that time but they stuck with Clarko now look at them.

Saints & Doggies fans have been just as patient as we have.

So take some deep breaths and by Round 12 if were still not meeting your expectations then both yourself and Old Dee can start pinging the coach and players

[rjay 24,917]

Absolutely RR. If 7 games in we are 0-7 with insipid performances my tone will be very different but after 3 meaningless games the previous 4 days reading have been laughable.

Just looking over some quick comparisons there's nothing to say we shouldn't be following a WCE pathway to success. Our core and spine have similar attributes to theirs.

Rucks- Dean Cox and Mark Jamar- Both All-Australians. Cox a better player but not giving away much.

Key Mids- Matt Priddis/Daniel Kerr & Brent Moloney/Sylvia.Trengove- Moloney and Priddis are similar. Tackling, Clearance machines. Priddis more consistent but both ultra competitive. Where we lack is a Kerr. Which one of our midfielders will turn into the attacking, flair midfielder. This is our biggest need for development in 2012. Who will step up..?

Key Backs- James Frawley and Darren Glass- Whilst Glass took out AA honours for me Frawley is the far superior player. An asset that is invaluable to the Dees.

Key Forwards- Josh Kennedy and Mitch Clark- Kennedy is proven whereas Clark is not but the signs from Pre-season have been excellent. If Clark can kick 45-50 goals and provide a target for each contest we are in the right direction. Obviously he was not with us last year so it's a great asset to have gained.

Next Forward-Darling/ LeCras vs Watts/ Jurrah (Davey). This is the category. We need a second forward and we need a crumber. Watts has an excellent opportunity to step up this year with less responsibility. I don't expect him to be the saviour, I don't give 2 poo's over whether he is better than Hurley or Natainui. I care whether he steps out on our turf and makes his presence felt and gives him all. If he does that I know his skills will make him valuable to our cause in 2012. The crumber is harder now Jurrah will be out for half the season that said they've lost LeCras. But going off last year now Davey will have the chance to come in and be that player. We need forward pressure and someone who as soon as a marking contest is over doesn't make it a rebound 50. Davey CAN do this. It's whether he wants too.

The X- Quentin Lynch and Cale Morton- The most berated player at every club is generally the player everyone is just angry at because they know them playing well will make a team better. The big Q was often thought to be a liability and had to be close to trade bait in 2010 with poor attitude and performance. His lift in 2011 changed the dynamic and started the culture change. Cale Morton can do this for Melbourne. If he can solidify a spot in our best 22 we will become a better team and free up other players. Him finding form will give confidence to Daveys and Watts to show they can lift their game like Lynch did for Butler, Nicoski and Chris Masten; 3 players who before last year I'd prefer to be dead than have in my team.

I'm not for a second saying our 'best' equal their 'best'. I'm saying we have the footwork thanks to Dean in the past and Neeld in the current to produce something. As someone suggested our motto this year should be 'no more excuses'. It's one thing to not have the talent on your list (years 07-10) but when you have the talent and aren't getting the best from it...... well there are literally no excuses.

It's the experience that makes a big difference and premiership players at that. Kerr was a real bonus coming back from injury, a great player and I think Priddis is very under rated, Moloney nor Silvia are anywhere near Priddis.

It's up to our young leaders to step up and I hope they can start this year, not saying we can't but it is a much tougher journey than the one West Coast embarked on with class senior premiership players coming back into the fold.

[old dee 23,787]

No better place than Paris Old Dee, maybe Florence if you prefer it a bit warmer.

Not a contest mate Paris by the lenghth of the straight.

Been there in September, weather was beautiful

[old dee 23,787]

WYL as I've said before my greatest joy as a Dees fan to date was Western Oval Round 22 1987 after copping crap in the school yard as the stupid Irish Kid who picked the Dees to follow, my team were finally in September. And yes I was gutted in 1988 & 2000, but I'm not a fairweather supporter clearly none of us born from the 60's onwards are, Premierships are hard to win

You are impatient last week after beating the pies and through the whole preseason you and others were talking us up, now after last weeks defeat lets hang ourselves. I told you and many on here lessons were learnt last year but you all expect Neeld to flick the magical switch, get out some old footage of the Hawks 2002-2007 many a good kicking in that time but they stuck with Clarko now look at them.

Saints & Doggies fans have been just as patient as we have.

So take some deep breaths and by Round 12 if were still not meeting your expectations then both yourself and Old Dee can start pinging the coach and players

psd I have not "pinged" any of the coaches.

My chief complaint in case you have missed it is that the senior players are not up to the job.

Very few of them in 2011 / 2012 are better than average, possible exception is Green

I think he still has the potential to be good in 2012.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Done old timer!

Where shall we go for holidays? B)

Draft Cap OD. We can take a big bottle of hindsight and get every pick correct without fail!! Otherwise Paris in September.....perfect!

Absolutely RR. If 7 games in we are 0-7 with insipid performances my tone will be very different but after 3 meaningless games the previous 4 days reading have been laughable.

Just looking over some quick comparisons there's nothing to say we shouldn't be following a WCE pathway to success. Our core and spine have similar attributes to theirs.

...

Good analysis DL 7. I think our options vs WCE options show us up well short and your optimism is based on a lot of "what ifs" some of which I am not confident of performance of some of our options. We will know this year. WCE bounced into the finals on the back of quality senior players being fit. We dont have them. And our potential best is still getting their 50 games up.

I am suggesting that there is a reason why our draft selections reach a ceiling and dont get any futher. I do think past coaches did not have the same steel that I THINK I see in Neeld ( time will tell). I believe our development in part has been stymied by past coaches who have not demanded enough of the players and in return the players have not given enough back. I am not basing my impression of Neeld on one presser but what he has said since he arrived. Saying and doing is two different things and whilst I dont expect miracles overnight I feel that we will see some players reach that ugly word "their potential" which has been missing for a number of years

I think there is a divide of functions between development and match day list coaching. Neeld has a bigger budget and a more mature list than Bailey to deal with.So I dont think it reflects one accepting mediocrity at all. I think Neeld takes over a generally better list where our future has had a few seasons to cut their teeth. I think there will players that will show their potential. Might even be Sylvia (Wont hold breath on that)

[monoccular 17,424]

I found the weekends game to be a kick in the guts and reckoned there was a whiff of 186 in it.

Neeld's mission from day 1 was to make us the hardest team to play against in the AFL. I along with many others bought into that. However all I saw on Saturday was a bunch of witches hats dressed in red and blue.

Yes it's early days and we may eventually get there under the new coaching panel, but I'm now resigned to the fact we'll only win 4 or 5 games this year, and most of them at the G v's interstate sides.

OMG - a practice match, glorified by some, and you are seeing 186 !! Don't bother slashing your wrists: most recover from that. Go straight for the jugular!

Can we revisit this post at season's end please?

[old dee 23,787]

OMG - a practice match, glorified by some, and you are seeing 186 !! Don't bother slashing your wrists: most recover from that. Go straight for the jugular!

Can we revisit this post at season's end please?

Why are you going to slash your wrists then?

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

WYL as I've said before my greatest joy as a Dees fan to date was Western Oval Round 22 1987 after copping crap in the school yard as the stupid Irish Kid who picked the Dees to follow, my team were finally in September. And yes I was gutted in 1988 & 2000, but I'm not a fairweather supporter clearly none of us born from the 60's onwards are, Premierships are hard to win

You are impatient last week after beating the pies and through the whole preseason you and others were talking us up, now after last weeks defeat lets hang ourselves. I told you and many on here lessons were learnt last year but you all expect Neeld to flick the magical switch, get out some old footage of the Hawks 2002-2007 many a good kicking in that time but they stuck with Clarko now look at them.

Saints & Doggies fans have been just as patient as we have.

So take some deep breaths and by Round 12 if were still not meeting your expectations then both yourself and Old Dee can start pinging the coach and players

I was at the western oval in '87 to PSD. Top Day.

I am not pinging our new coach at all. I am right behind his new regime.

But i will continue to question what our list of the last 4 years has learnt, after watching that complete waste of time from saturday last.

It was unacceptable garbage.

Mark Neeld gets a new sheet of paper.

[leucopogon 1,519]

leucopogon I am intrigued by your margins.

Can you explain 100+ points to Hawthorn

but only 50+ points at Geelong?

I do not get it!

79 point margin in a practice match, when the heat gets turned on by one of the serious flag contenders this year I can see them getting a big % booster against us. They've shown they've got the game plan to dissect our zone (which we're only just learning) with laser like precision.

As for the smaller Geelong margin, I don't think they'll have their way with us quite so easily. Neeld surely won't allow another 186 performance. Hence I see a 100+ point improvement by us (which is a good result). The fact that the hawks game comes the week after this stern challenge, I feel we'll really get blown apart. I think the Hawks are almost a lock for the flag if they stay injury free.

The results I had trouble predicting were the Richmond game (we might sneak a narrow win there as its at the G and we seem to have a mental edge over them). Bulldogs could easily be a loss but I feel they might slide this season. Also the StK game result is hard to call. We might be a chance there.

The killer 4 weeks follows with Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney, Carlton. That's gonna be a hellish month which could really knock us for six in terms of confidence and momentum. Us being a young team with a senior core with consistency issues is liable to really commence a downward spiral from that point onwards.

[old dee 23,787]

79 point margin in a practice match, when the heat gets turned on by one of the serious flag contenders this year I can see them getting a big % booster against us. They've shown they've got the game plan to dissect our zone (which we're only just learning) with laser like precision.

As for the smaller Geelong margin, I don't think they'll have their way with us quite so easily. Neeld surely won't allow another 186 performance. Hence I see a 100+ point improvement by us (which is a good result). The fact that the hawks game comes the week after this stern challenge, I feel we'll really get blown apart. I think the Hawks are almost a lock for the flag if they stay injury free.

The results I had trouble predicting were the Richmond game (we might sneak a narrow win there as its at the G and we seem to have a mental edge over them). Bulldogs could easily be a loss but I feel they might slide this season. Also the StK game result is hard to call. We might be a chance there.

The killer 4 weeks follows with Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney, Carlton. That's gonna be a hellish month which could really knock us for six in terms of confidence and momentum. Us being a young team with a senior core with consistency issues is liable to really commence a downward spiral from that point onwards.

Ok I think I now understand.

Whenever I look at the fixture May jumps out as a black hole.

Fortunately for me I will be OS for the geelong game but back for the regular belting from the hawks.

[rpfc 28,383]

Everyone keeps saying this... West Coast had basically the same list in 2011 as it did in 2010. It's called Player Development and new structures. Just because we have the same players doesn't mean we should accept the same result.

They added a few pieces most notably Jack Darling and players came on like Butler, Masten & Nicoski.

We added Clark and are hoping players like Tapscott, Strauss, Bennell, Blease, Morton, Petterd, Watts all move along with development. Not to mention also adding Magner, Couch and Sellar.

We have so much potential upside this year and not for a second am I expecting to finish 4th but the same list is absolutely no excuse.

One thing that WCE did have was Kerr, Glass, Cox, and Embley back to full fitness and playing good footy.

We just don't have that calibre of senior player to take us that far up the ladder.

[rjay 24,917]

I think the result last weekend was disappointing to say the least but it was NAB cup and some of the match ups/ selections would have been seen as tanking in the good old days.

The WC game will set the tone of the season for me, not win or loose but if we put up a fight or roll over like last year, lets see.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Yep Round 2 will tell us lots.

[Guest deedeedee]

I think the result last weekend was disappointing to say the least but it was NAB cup and some of the match ups/ selections would have been seen as tanking in the good old days.

The WC game will set the tone of the season for me, not win or loose but if we put up a fight or roll over like last year, lets see.

Personally I want to see this all year. I don't think winning a certain amount of games is important this year. The main thing is stopping the constant beltings we have had for many years. I just want to see an honest team out there, something we haven't seen for a very long time.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Personally I want to see this all year. I don't think winning a certain amount of games is important this year. The main thing is stopping the constant beltings we have had for many years. I just want to see an honest team out there, something we haven't seen for a very long time.

Don't think winning a certain amount of games is important? You're kidding aren't you?

Regardless of the fact that Neeld is in his first year, and the obvious change to game plan will take place, but the fact is that basically the same players will make up our Round 1 team this year as to most of those that played last year in the seniors, so I expect improvement. A season of 8 or less wins is a fail, quite simple. Our young guys are a year older than last year.

To not have an expectation on the amount of wins we should have this year is poor planning, and is not setting goals high enough for this current group. We need to get tougher on them, and give them less opportunity to use anything as an excuse.