Neeld's first mistake?

[Burnsy 32]

I find this thread to be incredibly paranoid and condescending.

It may have been better to just post this:

"Oooh I don't want to scare anybody but the Boogyman is hiding under your bed!"

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

It was his first appearance as captain and against arguably the favourites for the premiership. Wait a few games at least before you case judgment.

Neeld would have made him co-captain so that there isn't as much pressure on him as if he were the sole captain of the team, and knowing that it will take him time to develop into the role. I have confidence that he will be a very good captain for the MFC.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Thanks for the replies guys. Most responses are as expected.

For the record, go back through the old threads of who we all thought should be captain. Not once did I support Trengove getting the job in 2012. But, as a lot of you seem to think I'm basing this thread on last weekends game only, which I'm buggered if I know how you can do that when it's actually my opinion and not yours, and I clearly stated in post 6 that it's not soley as result of Saturday, but go on manipulating someone elses opinion to suit your arguement.

I will support Jack, and I would love to have a personal conversation with anyone who thinks I'm not passionate. While some think I have jumped the gun making the OP, I think Neeld may have jumped the gun with this call.

Reality is, I know how quick a lot of you change your tune if a player is out of form. Just look at how many wanted Green to captain last year, and of those, how many wanted him sacked before the 2011 season ended. I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Jack should he not have the year a lot of you suggest.

Good luck to JT and JG, I will be supporting you like never before. I hope some concerns I have can be laid to rest.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,851]

Having seen the games at Metricon live, and the other 2 on TV, I have a terrible feeling that Neeld's first mistake as coach was on display last night.

If anyone still thinks it was a great idea to appoint Trengove as a co-captain, I think you may be horribly mistaken. Jack is a kid that has been in the system for 2 seasons. He will have days where he stars, he will have a number of days where he just can't get in to the game. To expect this kid to carry the responsibilty of being the captain of the club is just adding extra weight on his shoulders is unfair, and will not assist in his development in the short term. When he is down, and prepare yourself, this will happen on more than one occasion this season, how will he react? I have no doubt he will put extra pressure on himself as he will be worried about how he is performing as captain, rather than just how he is going as a player.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jack, and he oozes class and leadership..but he's not there just yet. Grimes in his first game back this year showed on a number of occasions how he has the poise, the skill and the ability to put himself in to the game, as we would expect our captain to. You just know that he will do that every week.

I strongly believe that JT would've benefited a lot more from being named vice captain, as given JG's record, he would've ended up captaining us for some games in 2012.

I know this is going against the grain of a majority of posters on here, but in your responses, let's try and make valid points rather than turn it in to a sh!t fight.

Thoughts?

Playing his first half for the year in a NAB cup game and you are judging his captaincy. Ignoring the fact that one of the reasons we had co-captains is to spread the load for exactly the reasons you stated. Moreso because the other one you mention who was so gallant as captain has a habit of getting injured. Where was he Saturday night? I guess the weight would have fallen to the vice captain then. Neither of them are there yet that is why we have joint captains which was the right decision to make.

Edited March 11, 2012 by big_red_fire_engine

[Hannibal 5,814]

Thanks for the replies guys. Most responses are as expected.

For the record, go back through the old threads of who we all thought should be captain. Not once did I support Trengove getting the job in 2012. But, as a lot of you seem to think I'm basing this thread on last weekends game only, which I'm buggered if I know how you can do that when it's actually my opinion and not yours, and I clearly stated in post 6 that it's not soley as result of Saturday, but go on manipulating someone elses opinion to suit your arguement (sic).

I get how it goes...

You didn't like the idea of Trengove as captain and have previously aired your concerns. Said player dishes out an ordinary game in his new role in his first hit-out for the year. You decide to start a thread rehashing your initial concerns. But it's not just because he played a first up ordinary game and how dare anyone think otherwise.

Genius.

[jnrmac 19,905]

I didn't notice any of our past leaders leading. Beemer was unsighted. Rivers the same. Davey did nothing.

FFS we had 3 players who had 10 kicks - we were nowhere, we were under pressure, our 'plan' fell apart. They had 12 players who got more dreamteam points than our best Jones. It was an appalling effort on our behalf.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I get how it goes...

You didn't like the idea of Trengove as captain and have previously aired your concerns. Said player dishes out an ordinary game in his new role in his first hit-out for the year. You decide to start a thread rehashing your initial concerns. But it's not just because he played a first up ordinary game and how dare anyone think otherwise.

Genius.

Love your work Benny boy, keep it up champ.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I agree and it was i think his first game of the year.

Even JC would struggle get saturdays night's team off the canvas.

What worries me is he is probably going to have to carry more than 50% of the load.

It is a very big job for someone so inexperienced, especially if we have a year similar to 2011.

Poor kid will on his knees by mid year.

Imagine having to shoulder the job through a few more of saturday nights results.

Thanks Old Dee - this is EXACTLY my thoughts; perhaps I didn't explain it as well in my opening post (I'm assuming you're not taking the pi$$?!!).

I can't wait for the day that RP "bumps" this thread, hopefully around Round 11 or 12, when JT is a mile in front in our B&F count, and has proved my concerns were totally premature.

Mods - it is apparent that a number of posters don't believe this topic is worthy of a new thread, so please use your discretion if you believe the topic should be locked.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

Who did you want to captain the side in 2012 Billy?

[old dee 23,503]

Who did you want to captain the side in 2012 Billy?

That is the proplem once you go past two guys with 69 games between them the cupboard looks very bare

[Demonator 93]

Let's discuss a topic like this after he's played more than 5 minutes of a pre-season practice match!

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

That is the proplem once you go past two guys with 69 games between them the cupboard looks very bare

Correct. How did Moloney go?

The decision is for the future.

[McQueen 17,864]

Thanks for the replies guys. Most responses are as expected.

For the record, go back through the old threads of who we all thought should be captain. Not once did I support Trengove getting the job in 2012. But, as a lot of you seem to think I'm basing this thread on last weekends game only, which I'm buggered if I know how you can do that when it's actually my opinion and not yours, and I clearly stated in post 6 that it's not soley as result of Saturday, but go on manipulating someone elses opinion to suit your arguement.

Err... okay I got it. You start a thread with your opinion but others are not allowed to give theirs, unless of course they agree with yours?

Demonland 101.

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

I think our club is doing everything it can to improve itself "on field". More so than i've witnessed at any other time during the time i've followed it anyway. But turning a leaky rusty boat into a super hardened top liner overnight just isn't plausible. It's a long drawn out process that'll require lots of sweat, hard work, time, plenty more of the green folding stuff PLUS some very hard trade decisions in the coming years, in order to right this vessel.

Much time, patience, trial and error and sorting out needed prior to seeing the light i reckon.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Who did you want to captain the side in 2012 Billy?

To be honest WYL, I did say Green, then I changed to Green & Grimes as co-captains. If I had a crystal ball and saw Grimes playing 22 games or more this year, I'd have him outright.

Correct. How did Moloney go? The decision is for the future.

This is the bit that I don't know if I should find comforting or annoying! I want a premiership, just like everyone else on here does. We've had some tough times over the past 4 years, and regardless of your age, the MFC has always had something going on that hasn't helped in a premiership assault. For me, I was there when Stynes ran across the mark, I was there in '88 where the most enteratining thing I saw was Noel Watson on his horse, I was there for the No Merger game, I wasn't there for the 2000 GF but still watched, was on the rollercoaster that was the Daniher era, shed a tear for the Broadbridge tragedy, and thank Christ I wasn't at Kardinia Park for 186, I put my hand in my pocket (as much as I could) to help wipe out the $5m debt while we were winning wooden spoons. We all have our own stories and have been there at various times in this long road to the ultimate.

When we started the great re-build, the experts were claiming our widow would start opening around 2013/14 and become the team of the decade. I read on here somewhere that someone suggested our window now opening 2016+. Hopefully the current Football Department, and the decisions they are currently making such as possibly fasttracking JT's development by putting him in a leadership role, are going to see our window open earlier.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Err... okay I got it. You start a thread with your opinion but others are not allowed to give theirs, unless of course they agree with yours? Demonland 101.

Not at all McQueen. I knew I was going to be in the minority on this one, but was willing to voice my concerns. I have enjoyed your input in to the arguement. The posts I haven't enjoyed are the ones that are claiming that I'm judging my opinion on one performance, and one performance only. Totally incorrect, and I have explained in earlier posts that my opinion is based on more than one situation.

Demonator probably hit the nail on the head - I should've brought this topic up later rather than sooner, but I thought I'd throw up a differnt topic other than how Jack Watts is going and how skinny Morton is.

Regardless of how young or old our Captain/s is/are, when we are down, I want that player/s to stand up and make a statement. I want leadership when things are sh!t, because going by the form of 2011, I'm prepared for anything in 2012. I don't want our coach to say that we were bullied - I want us to be the bullies. I don't want any of our players to have a "get out clause" if they don't stand up and be counted. Do I have high expectations? Absolutely. We have been sh!t for too long in my life, and I'm tired of excuses.

Bring on Round 1 of the real stuff - let's see the Demons rise up the ladder and play finals. Let's see action!

FWIW - a much better membership slogan this year. Using the word "Hard" puts that expectation on our players that gives them something they need to do. As members, we should expect Hard work and Hard minds, afterall, we are Hardcore Demons. I like it - well done!

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

To be honest WYL, I did say Green, then I changed to Green & Grimes as co-captains. If I had a crystal ball and saw Grimes playing 22 games or more this year, I'd have him outright.

This is the bit that I don't know if I should find comforting or annoying! I want a premiership, just like everyone else on here does. We've had some tough times over the past 4 years, and regardless of your age, the MFC has always had something going on that hasn't helped in a premiership assault. For me, I was there when Stynes ran across the mark, I was there in '88 where the most enteratining thing I saw was Noel Watson on his horse, I was there for the No Merger game, I wasn't there for the 2000 GF but still watched, was on the rollercoaster that was the Daniher era, shed a tear for the Broadbridge tragedy, and thank Christ I wasn't at Kardinia Park for 186, I put my hand in my pocket (as much as I could) to help wipe out the $5m debt while we were winning wooden spoons. We all have our own stories and have been there at various times in this long road to the ultimate.

When we started the great re-build, the experts were claiming our widow would start opening around 2013/14 and become the team of the decade. I read on here somewhere that someone suggested our window now opening 2016+. Hopefully the current Football Department, and the decisions they are currently making such as possibly fasttracking JT's development by putting him in a leadership role, are going to see our window open earlier.

Our recruiting over the past 4 years is a concern to me to Billy, but we have got what we have got.

I want to back the coach because i think he is the right man.

But seeing Martin & Jack Darling rip into games hurts.

But that is not the fault of Jack Trengove. He can play.

We have got to support JT for the long term.

[McQueen 17,864]

Not at all McQueen. I knew I was going to be in the minority on this one, but was willing to voice my concerns. I have enjoyed your input in to the arguement. The posts I haven't enjoyed are the ones that are claiming that I'm judging my opinion on one performance, and one performance only. Totally incorrect, and I have explained in earlier posts that my opinion is based on more than one situation.

Demonator probably hit the nail on the head - I should've brought this topic up later rather than sooner, but I thought I'd throw up a differnt topic other than how Jack Watts is going and how skinny Morton is.

Regardless of how young or old our Captain/s is/are, when we are down, I want that player/s to stand up and make a statement. I want leadership when things are sh!t, because going by the form of 2011, I'm prepared for anything in 2012. I don't want our coach to say that we were bullied - I want us to be the bullies. I don't want any of our players to have a "get out clause" if they don't stand up and be counted. Do I have high expectations? Absolutely. We have been sh!t for too long in my life, and I'm tired of excuses.

Bring on Round 1 of the real stuff - let's see the Demons rise up the ladder and play finals. Let's see action!

FWIW - a much better membership slogan this year. Using the word "Hard" puts that expectation on our players that gives them something they need to do. As members, we should expect Hard work and Hard minds, afterall, we are Hardcore Demons. I like it - well done!

With you all the way Bily.

Our Skips and the rest of the LG will form into a tight unit that will function better as the season goes by. A few hard fought wins against quality teams this year will expedite that process.

Would like to add more but have my ring hanging today.

Cheers!

[rpfc 28,052]

Ask me this hypothetical - would we/he be better off without the captaincy - in a few years time when I can give an hypothesis.

[Supreme_Demon 3,247]

As much as I really do hate losing, and losing by almost 80 points against Hawthorn, I think it was a positive that it happened early.

It now gives Mark Neeld and Co. a benchmark of what is expected to be an elite football team, which I must admit Hawthorn are.

Let's hope Mark Neeld, Neil Craig and the rest of the coaching staff can do what needs to be done to make sure losses like we had against Hawthorn are very few and far between when the real season starts against Brisbane in Round 1.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Supreme_Demon

[old dee 23,503]

As much as I really do hate losing, and losing by almost 80 points against Hawthorn, I think it was a positive that it happened early.

It now gives Mark Neeld and Co. a benchmark of what is expected to be an elite football team, which I must admit Hawthorn are.

Let's hope Mark Neeld, Neil Craig and the rest of the coaching staff can do what needs to be done to make sure losses like we had against Hawthorn are very few and far between when the real season starts against Brisbane in Round 1.

Unfortunately SD I think we are in for a few more in 2012.

The player stocks are the player stocks.

I can think of 6 games were big margin losses are almost a shoe in.

[biggestred 4,820]

well he played against the hawks and we lost. so i say, SACK THE COACH, BOARD AND PLAYERS.