The NAB cup

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I find it alarming when I continue to read comments that go a little something like, "It's only NAB cup so you can't take too much out of it."

I have never really understood this kind of comment, nor do I really know what the poster means when they write it.

For the people who are culprits of this kind of comment, I want to know what you look for and what you do take from a NAB cup game?

In my eyes, after one dry game of football against the grand finalists of last year, I feel I can see a remarkable difference in the way we set up

as a team and the positional movement of players. We are so much more organised out there as a team and it seems we have not only developed an

effective forward press, but also an appetite for defensive running. Two words that were missing from the Bailey era.

That's a huge amount that I took from one NAB cup game.

Obviously there will be individual mistakes such as kicking errors, decision making errors, two players going for the same mark etc. They are the bumps you

want to smooth out before the season proper, but maybe that's what people mean when they say, "you can't take too much out of a nab cup game.'

Or maybe in the past, people have been looking for individual brilliance or dominance after a long pre-season? And that's what people mean by; "You can't

take too much from a nab cup game."

The two answers above are probably due to the last few years under Bailey's watch, where it seemed the common theme was about getting 'games into players.'

Maybe people were assuming that once a player had reached x amount of games, they should be getting this amount of possessions or that amount of goals....

I am also a culprit of this kind of thought.

Who knows...

After one nab cup game I can see Neeld has instilled three goals : hardness, organisation (game plan) and defensive running. He clearly knows that we have the cattle to

follow this kind of theme and as long as we continue to play in the manner we did, we will be in with a shot against most teams this year. As Bailey also alluded to and what most

know, the more games our younger players play, the better they will become also. Now we have two things to look forward to.

Can't wait for Saturday to see us at it again.

Go you mighty dees!

Edited March 5, 2012 by stevethemanjordan

[drdrake 3,178]

I tend to agree, the first round is Micky Mouse but I believe the resent years pre-season comps have given indications on how a team will perform through out the season. I'm sure someone will know the answer but I can't remember the last pre-season game we won not including last years first round.

[rpfc 28,542]

How about this turn of phrase: You can't take as much from these glorified practice matches than from the real thing?

Does that work?

Yes, we see how things might be implemented, but can we extrapolate how well we will enact these changes, and how successful they are against the best efforts of other teams, in the season proper?

I say no.

Allen Iverson says what about practice?

[Hells Gates 505]

Only a quick reply as Ive got to fly out to work.

Firstly the game the other night was wet, they had left the roof open all day and it was raining, hence it being slippery.

Secondly, the NAB cup is the time when coaches try all sorts of things, not necessarily "the gameplan" and we often see players confused.

The rules are a shambles - and dont fit ours or Collingwoods gameplan, players again confused.

Its the first real hit out so players will be rusty from every team, makes for scrappy games.

It is only practice.

There were many good things to take out of the games so far but for me, just as many bad things to work on. Its still 4 weeks until round 1 and when weve played a few 4 point games thats when I will make my judgements.

Anyhow that is just some of my thoughts and thats the way I look at the NAB cup.

[Samsara 65]

Certainly positive signs, but I certainly agree with the "wait until the real season starts" mantra. We definitely had more eagerness to win the contested ball, and some of our rookies have been relevations so far. It has been a good pre-season thus far as we've been competetive and had no major injuries (touching wood).

Look forward to seeing how we go against the highly fancied Hawks.

[dpositive 1,669]

Like you Steve I feel we can certainly take a lot out of the games and I think all on the post are agreeing.

Its what we take and how we take it

I have said on another post how you practice will be how you play so theres much needed

also this is the opportunity to develop and work on individual and team issues

The important thing is for us to own the game

thats coaches players and supporters.

We all see different things strengths and weaknesses and the more we communicate the better these things are highlighted.

enjoy the ride we all know we have had worse times.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

How about this turn of phrase: You can't take as much from these glorified practice matches than from the real thing?

Does that work?

Yes, we see how things might be implemented, but can we extrapolate how well we will enact these changes, and how successful they are against the best efforts of other teams, in the season proper?

I say no.

Allen Iverson says what about practice?

Practice how you play

[rpfc 28,542]

Practice how you play

No doubt, but when half your team is missing and the other team rests some of their guns at HT, it doesn't give the truest indications...

Allen Iverson believes we shouldn't read too much into practice. I and I agree with Professor Iverson.

Edited March 5, 2012 by rpfc

[hardtack 10,555]

Well, there are a couple of ways of looking at it. Yes, the coaches are experimenting with players (rookies and new starters getting game time), game plans, and player positions and hence it is not a true reflection of how any team will approach their games in season proper... but then again, the coaches will be sending their players out to implement genuine strategies and to play to the best of their ability in doing that.

Look no further than the performances of teams like West Coast (I think), Essendon and the Dees in last year's NAB Cup... their performances in the pre-season were pretty much representative of the way their respective seasons panned out.

Edited March 5, 2012 by hardtack

[rpfc 28,542]

Carlton haven't won yet and Melbourne beat Collingwood.

Honestly, such an absurd result should tell you how seriously Collingwood is taking the NAB Cup.

[hardtack 10,555]

Carlton haven't won yet and Melbourne beat Collingwood.

Honestly, such an absurd result should tell you how seriously Collingwood is taking the NAB Cup.

Then couldn't we then extrapolate from that, that the Dees are equally not serious about this, yet we still beat the Pies and so we are still better than them (even in a half hearted contest) ;-)

[BIG JIM 508]

Carlton haven't won yet and Melbourne beat Collingwood.

Honestly, such an absurd result should tell you how seriously Collingwood is taking the NAB Cup.

Collingwood played there stars in the first half and our gameplan and players took it right up to them so we could expect collingwood to [censored] us in the real stuff but i think our gameplan will not allow that to happen and we can beat them as brad green said they are only human so go out there and attack them and thats what we did at a ground we have not won at in 5 years so nab cup yes but we have the players and gameplan to really give some teams a good shake this year.We will not be top 4 this year but we will bring some respect back to the club that i have no dobt about. Collingwood are the best team along with geelong but in 2 or 3 years when our boys are men we have a chance to be the geelong or collingwood of now. I think we have got the right football department to take us were we no we should be. Mark neeld has set the standerd early and we will take some BIG steps this year and who knows we could be the westcoast from last year. GO DEMONS

[rpfc 28,542]

Collingwood played there stars in the first half and our gameplan and players took it right up to them so we could expect collingwood to [censored] us in the real stuff but i think our gameplan will not allow that to happen and we can beat them as brad green said they are only human so go out there and attack them and thats what we did at a ground we have not won at in 5 years so nab cup yes but we have the players and gameplan to really give some teams a good shake this year.We will not be top 4 this year but we will bring some respect back to the club that i have no dobt about. Collingwood are the best team along with geelong but in 2 or 3 years when our boys are men we have a chance to be the geelong or collingwood of now. I think we have got the right football department to take us were we no we should be. Mark neeld has set the standerd early and we will take some BIG steps this year and who knows we could be the westcoast from last year. GO DEMONS

Hardly took a breath when reading that, BJ...

It was promising no doubt but, and this isn't the MFCSS talking, let's get serious - we have a long way to go before we are 9 points better than Collingwood at Etihad. We took it more seriously and that is the way it goes when fringe players play fringe players.

[PaulRB 6,392]

Exactly what I took from sat night, that our 35 is deeper then their 35, however their top 24 are still probably sharper than our top 24. Not that Sat night illuminated this (second claim). Season 2011 did though...

Edited March 5, 2012 by PaulRB

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Carlton haven't won yet and Melbourne beat Collingwood.

Honestly, such an absurd result should tell you how seriously Collingwood is taking the NAB Cup.

Then couldn't we then extrapolate from that, that the Dees are equally not serious about this, yet we still beat the Pies and so we are still better than them (even in a half hearted contest) ;-)

Not telling anyone anything new here, but obviously each club has it's own methods of trialing and testing different players in many varied positions during the NAB, and obviously trialing out alot more options and methods than when the season proper commences and real points are up for grabs. This makes it a little risky to try and measure any performance by IMO.

The thing is, we know what the Pies and Blues are capable of in very recent times. The results were there for all to see at the end of last season. As were our results to that point

Yes it's a new season, but the core group of players within most of the more senior 'developed' top sides doesn't change that much from last year to the beginning of this year. Or looking at it alternatively, one could argue a higher percentage of their playing group is already very mature or very close to it in terms of relative experience (games played/Finals played). As for us, our group and it's development is changing fairly rapidly by the month apart from a smaller (percentage wise) core group of more senior players. So IMO we're more of an unknown quantity going into the season proper when compared to the likes of the Blues and the Pies. We truly have no idea how we might perform once the real deal begins.

So yeh, i'm with RPFC here. Not taking too much notice of results from the NAB cup. Sorry bout that last line Steve lol.

If history is anything to go by (and yes i realise this is so far in the past it doesn't have much, if any, bearing on today's situation), about the only time i'd sit up and take "SOME" notice of our form in the NAB is if we made it to the GF and win it. We won in 87 and scraped into 5th in the real season. We won in 1989 against the Cats and finished the real deal in 4th, one rung below them. We also had the worst percentage of the top 5 teams that year. I haven't looked at the outcome of other teams who've won the night GF over many years though, so maybe a case could be made to argue that winning it is a fair indicator (but still not a great one) of form going into the real season (supporting my view), or maybe it isn't and it's a shoddy indicator. But i'll leave that little doozy for someone else on here to look into!

Any takers?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Rusty Nails

[Dr. Mubutu 855]

If history is anything to go by (and yes i realise this is so far in the past it doesn't have much, if any, bearing on today's situation), about the only time i'd sit up and take "SOME" notice of our form in the NAB is if we made it to the GF and win it. We won in 87 and scraped into 5th in the real season. We won in 1989 against the Cats and finished the real deal in 4th, one rung below them. We also had the worst percentage of the top 5 teams that year. I haven't looked at the outcome of other teams who've won the night GF over many years though, so maybe a case could be made to argue that winning it is a fair indicator (but still not a great one) of form going into the real season (supporting my view), or maybe it isn't and it's a shoddy indicator. But i'll leave that little doozy for someone else on here to look into!

Nah, Carlton won the NAB Cup in 2007, then finished 15th with 4 wins. Rubbish indicator.

[Fork 'em 6,984]

Nah, Carlton won the NAB Cup in 2007, then finished 15th with 4 wins. Rubbish indicator.

That was an abberation .

Most sides that do well in the NAB cup do well during the season IMO.

[old dee 23,801]

That was an abberation .

Most sides that do well in the NAB cup do well during the season IMO.

Pies won it last year and then made the GF not a bad result.

[nutbean 8,838]

My take.

I am pleased to see our players push up agressively to the opposition when we dont have the ball - I havent seen that in too long

I am pleased to see our mids winning clearances at the centre bounce and at stoppages - I havent seen that since 1904.

Winning is better than losing.

Thats about it.

[old dee 23,801]

My take.

I am pleased to see our players push up agressively to the opposition when we dont have the ball - I havent seen that in too long

I am pleased to see our mids winning clearances at the centre bounce and at stoppages - I havent seen that since 1904.

Winning is better than losing.

Thats about it.

I hope you mean 2004 Nutbean

[Macca 17,009]

My take.

I am pleased to see our players push up agressively to the opposition when we dont have the ball - I havent seen that in too long

I am pleased to see our mids winning clearances at the centre bounce and at stoppages - I havent seen that since 1904.

Winning is better than losing.

Thats about it.

Wow , you go back aways 'nutbean' ! Or have you always been here ? Like Jack in "The Shining"

Cheers

[rolly 149]

i can't believe how good our press has become in just a few months! from basically nothing, what i've seen is awesome. obviously the real test is going to be when we play against a full strength opposition at the back end of the season but from what i've seen there are massive amounts of good signs to come. add some structure up forward with a full sized/ full strength forward line and the excitement starts to build

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Carlton haven't won yet and Melbourne beat Collingwood.

Honestly, such an absurd result should tell you how seriously Collingwood is taking the NAB Cup.

It's not whether one team takes it seriously or not.

Teams have seperate agendas and goals for the NAB cup. All are in-fact 'serious'.

Ours happens to be a complete change in the way we play as a football team and so, as of Saturday night, playing against

arguably the most organised group in the AFL, we did very well and we can take a lot from that game.

Of course all teams will be blooding youngsters and some will have more than the opposition. Some teams will be trying to fine tune

areas of their game, some making positional changes etc. Yes, yes we all know it's a bit of experimentation.

However, every player that plays is still going at 100%. They wouldn't be playing if they weren't, because yes, it's only NAB cup!

I'm with you Rolly. I think most within the football community knew we hadn't adopted a consistent press under Bailey. I think we

became pretty lazy under him too. Don't think Neeld will stand for any form of laziness.

Edited March 6, 2012 by stevethemanjordan