Garry Lyon's six-month rescue mission over

[Slartibartfast 16,900]

I don't believe Bailey should have coached beyond 2011. I believe the club could have announced he wouldn't be coach in 2012 before the end of the season, started looking for a new coach and Bailey could have been given the option to leave or see out the season. I believe he should have been given the opportunity to resign. I don't believe Garry Lyon should have been involved in any decision making on the Sunday after the Geelong game. I don't believe McLardy had any role interviewing the leadership group to gain their opinions on the MFC management prior to the Geelong game.

That's just for a start. Adelaide replaced Craig and did it gracefully. Footscray replaced Eade professionally. We replaced Bailey and looked like the Keystone Cops.

We are in a good place now but none of that has to do with the way the Board or Lyon acted in the 48 hours after the Geelong game, it has to do with a lot of other things not the least being the AFL's equalization package which provided us the funds to support the FD and the decisions management and the Board have subsequently made. We've recovered a very poor position. Garry caused some of it and he fixed some of it. He's now left before any of his decisions have been tested.

Time will tell if Neeld is the messiah or just another Bailey that Lyon will start potting in a few years time.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I don't believe Bailey should have coached beyond 2011. I believe the club could have announced he wouldn't be coach in 2012 before the end of the season, started looking for a new coach and Bailey could have been given the option to leave or see out the season. I believe he should have been given the opportunity to resign. I don't believe Garry Lyon should have been involved in any decision making on the Sunday after the Geelong game. I don't believe McLardy had any role interviewing the leadership group to gain their opinions on the MFC management prior to the Geelong game.

That's just for a start. Adelaide replaced Craig and did it gracefully. Footscray replaced Eade professionally. We replaced Bailey and looked like the Keystone Cops.

We are in a good place now but none of that has to do with the way the Board or Lyon acted in the 48 hours after the Geelong game, it has to do with a lot of other things not the least being the AFL's equalization package which provided us the funds to support the FD and the decisions management and the Board have subsequently made. We've recovered a very poor position. Garry caused some of it and he fixed some of it. He's now left before any of his decisions have been tested.

Time will tell if Neeld is the messiah or just another Bailey that Lyon will start potting in a few years time.

I don't agree but I am willing to accept that you have your differing opinion. Some people are able to do this with grace, some people can not.

Emotion and allegiance can be an enemy to indepedent thought.

[Whispering_Jack 29,246]

 

FMD, you must be kidding?  Breeze in for 6 months, spend more than twice as much as before on the FD, leave the actual work to others prepared to stay the course and leave labelled "the savior".

And that comment depicts exactly why IMO I consider him to have been on a hiding to nothing. 

August 2011 - Lyon agrees to come on board for a brief period of time to help his mate and his club to perform what's described here as a "rescue mission".

If he fails, he's the one who cops the flack.

If he succeeds, it had nothing to do with him - he just lucked out because the money was magically there and it was all really the work of others. He therefore deserves no credit at all.

That's clearly an unfair appraisal but it's now being spun that way and that's why I make the call about him being on a "hiding to nothing".

FWIW, I also agree with Fan on the matter of Cameron Schwab's role in revitalising the club, but then I could never understand the scathing criticism of him from some sectors of the media because all we ever got were vague allegations and innuendo about his role as CEO.

[H_T 3,032]

Bailey wasn't sacked in 48 hours, I am certain that his position was under very close scrutiny from those who knew football from very early in the season.

Evidence was overwhelming that Bailey was just not working. I am not too sure what could have been done differently.

Lyon was able to do the job without emotion and with only the interests of the club at heart with and no allegiances.

Agree. It had been brewing all year with roller coaster performances and seemed to stem as far back as the Andrew's Report and Schwab's comments in the Age.

186 was significant. In terms of magnitude it certainly rocked the foundations and as a result we had fallout (the straw that broke the camel's back), a shake-up and a rebuild with new structure eventuating. I'm sure in time those central to the decisions will all be recognised despite some the view that Lyon has taken most of the limelight. He is a media magnet, so what ? That's what happens. He helped out a mate and in the meantime 'helped' give direction to what some may see or have seen as an incompetent board - one that took far too long to replace Leoncelli.

And for the record, I'm more embarrassed about that performance / result than the decisions that took place.

Edited January 19, 2012 by H_T
Fixed spelling

[daisycutter 29,343]

You haven't read much of this thread have you!! Or alternatively have dismissed much of it without explanation.

and did you notice that I put a strict timetable around my comments....or did you miss that?

[Whispering_Jack 29,246]

I don't believe Bailey should have coached beyond 2011. I believe the club could have announced he wouldn't be coach in 2012 before the end of the season, started looking for a new coach and Bailey could have been given the option to leave or see out the season. I believe he should have been given the opportunity to resign. I don't believe Garry Lyon should have been involved in any decision making on the Sunday after the Geelong game. I don't believe McLardy had any role interviewing the leadership group to gain their opinions on the MFC management prior to the Geelong game.

That's just for a start. Adelaide replaced Craig and did it gracefully. Footscray replaced Eade professionally. We replaced Bailey and looked like the Keystone Cops.

We are in a good place now but none of that has to do with the way the Board or Lyon acted in the 48 hours after the Geelong game, it has to do with a lot of other things not the least being the AFL's equalization package which provided us the funds to support the FD and the decisions management and the Board have subsequently made. We've recovered a very poor position. Garry caused some of it and he fixed some of it. He's now left before any of his decisions have been tested.

Time will tell if Neeld is the messiah or just another Bailey that Lyon will start potting in a few years time.

Agreed that Bailey should not have coached beyond 2011 (in fact he should not have coached beyond 186) but does the fact Lyon took part in the selection process in 2007 preclude him from having the right to express his view on the man's capabilities as a coach nearly four years down the track? I have no idea whether he made his views known to the Board in the 24/48 hours before the decision was made but would he not be entitled to express his opinion if it was that Bailey hadn't lived up to the expectations from the selection process?

Agreed also that the manner of the dismissal of Bailey was entirely inappropriate but let's not kid ourselves, the sackings at Adelaide and the Doggies weren't particularly dignified either.

What intrigues me is that the media were promoting a story on the eve of 186 that Bailey's contract to coach was about to be renewed by the Board. If that's true, then I wonder whether those who moved against him deserve praise or blame for what they did in undermining him?

[Guest Jackie]

That's just for a start. Adelaide replaced Craig and did it gracefully. Footscray replaced Eade professionally. We replaced Bailey and looked like the Keystone Cops.

.

Craig and Eade were moved on quietly after years of declining moderate success. With Bailey we were stillborn to the year zero that Daniher left us. Bailey had to go and the quicker the better especially with the nightmare of another 2 years more of him on the table. Any other more professional club would have booted him out quicker and more ruthlessly. For 4 damned years we were the Keystone Cops.

[Freddy Fuschia 730]

FMD, you must be kidding? Breeze in for 6 months, spend more than twice as much as before on the FD, leave the actual work to others prepared to stay the course and leave labelled "the savior".

Great post?

Give me a break please and forgive me for thinking there's a touch of revisionist history mixed up in all this but when Lyon took on the task was he even aware of what funding he was going to have at his disposal? IIRC he was one of the Demon heroes who attended that function in August that raised 800k for the club? Did he say he was only going to take on the post if the money was there for him to spend? And if the AFL money was there for us then wasn't available to most other clubs looking for coaching personal or the likes of Craig and Misson? Was he guaranteed back then that the club could attract such people or for that matter as impressive a candidate for head coach as Mark Neeld? Was Lyon a "shoe in" at the time to be a part of prising away a Mitchell Clark from Fremantle?

Now, he doesn't deserve any accolades for overseeing the process because the people under him did all the work. And he wasn't helping an old mate, he was just doing it for ... um ... a joke?

Right?

FMD, the nitpicking over this beggars belief!

[Slartibartfast 16,900]

and did you notice that I put a strict timetable around my comments....or did you miss that?

We probably differ on "when he stepped in".

Anyway I've had my say,

Cheers all.

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

I don't believe Bailey should have coached beyond 2011. I believe the club could have announced he wouldn't be coach in 2012 before the end of the season, started looking for a new coach and Bailey could have been given the option to leave or see out the season. I believe he should have been given the opportunity to resign. I don't believe Garry Lyon should have been involved in any decision making on the Sunday after the Geelong game. I don't believe McLardy had any role interviewing the leadership group to gain their opinions on the MFC management prior to the Geelong game.

That's just for a start. Adelaide replaced Craig and did it gracefully. Footscray replaced Eade professionally. We replaced Bailey and looked like the Keystone Cops.

We are in a good place now but none of that has to do with the way the Board or Lyon acted in the 48 hours after the Geelong game, it has to do with a lot of other things not the least being the AFL's equalization package which provided us the funds to support the FD and the decisions management and the Board have subsequently made. We've recovered a very poor position. Garry caused some of it and he fixed some of it. He's now left before any of his decisions have been tested.

Time will tell if Neeld is the messiah or just another Bailey that Lyon will start potting in a few years time.

Fair call Fan....I don't agree but i can see your point of view.

At Half time at the Cattery Bails would have known he was finished as head coach....to coach out the season would have been too painful.

Bails left with his respect...i don't think we did any worse than other clubs....Sackings/Terminations whatever always hurt someone..but there was no other option...at least it was done fast....to linger would have hurt far more.

I am also thinking the $7 odd million that supporters have raised so far under this board also helped to beef up the Football Dept. and it wasn't all AFL Charity.

[daisycutter 29,343]

Fair call Fan....I don't agree but i can see your point of view.

At Half time at the Cattery Bails would have known he was finished as head coach....to coach out the season would have been too painful.

Bails left with his respect...i don't think we did any worse than other clubs....Sackings/Terminations whatever always hurt someone..but there was no other option...at least it was done fast....to linger would have hurt far more.

I am also thinking the $7 odd million that supporters have raised so far under this board also helped to beef up the Football Dept. and it wasn't all AFL Charity.

BTW it's not all AFL charity. It's partly recompense for getting screwed over by the AFL with it's unfair fixturing resulting in a two-speed competition

The AFL gets its greedy hand first on most of the money generated by the entertainment provided by the individual clubs

I'm not saying we don't need an independent body but it's not very transparent and likes keeping many clubs on the drip feed in a disadvantaged position for complaining, so it would be wrong to simply call it charity

[Lutz 76]

I was told early in 2011 by people that have close connections to the board that most on it thought Bailey just wasn't a coach who could take us forward and that he wouldn't last the season.

I disagreed, vehemently at the time, but in retrospect, I think it was correct.

Bailey may have been given the resources Neeld has at his disposal, but I'm not sure he could manage them effectively.

I utmost confidence in Neeld.

Looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds.

[Lutz 76]

Great post old.

I wonder what it says about the board that Gary is seen as having the influence he does? I wonder what it says about Jim that Gary has the influence he does. I wonder if Bailey was white-anted by Gary for about 18/12 until he went and now, lo-and-behold footy expenditure has gone through the roof?

The more I think about it, the more I wonder about the Board. And about how much longer we should accept the role of president being used as pre-palliative care. I wonder if anyone has the guts to get Jimmy to move on? If he were prime minister, he would be forced aside. If he ran policing, or health care - hell if he ran a serious business he would be moved on. If he was your accountant or GP none of you would see him - well, not for anything imporant. I think it says an awful lot that the mood of melboune supports is to canonise a living man and absolve him of his responsibilities...and line up to blame the first poor dolt who mis-fires.

At least Gary sounds like he's been an effective figure-head (at worst).

Wow. Great post.

I've had many similar thoughts myself, but decided against posting them on this forum, due to fear of being literally burnt at the stake.

Good to see some harsh realists on this thread, who have the stones to ask some seriously tough questions.

There are still some serious questions that need to be asked about our club, but so far it seems to be working in spite of a potentially messy situation.

[Guest Jackie]

Wow. Great post.

I've had many similar thoughts myself, but decided against posting them on this forum, due to fear of being literally burnt at the stake.

Good to see some harsh realists on this thread, who have the stones to ask some seriously tough questions.

There are still some serious questions that need to be asked about our club, but so far it seems to be working in spite of a potentially messy situation.

Yeah, a shame all those realists who were asking the tough questions last season got toasted by the likes of E25 and his ilk.

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

BTW it's not all AFL charity. It's partly recompense for getting screwed over by the AFL with it's unfair fixturing resulting in a two-speed competition

The AFL gets its greedy hand first on most of the money generated by the entertainment provided by the individual clubs

I'm not saying we don't need an independent body but it's not very transparent and likes keeping many clubs on the drip feed in a disadvantaged position for complaining, so it would be wrong to simply call it charity

Yeah i know we are on the drip feed....and i also know we are good enough and strong enough to get off that same AFL Handout system....& to Start Making $$$ for the AFL if this club gets its collective self into the right mindset...

I just call it the Charity $$$

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

Wow. Great post.

I've had many similar thoughts myself, but decided against posting them on this forum, due to fear of being literally burnt at the stake.

Good to see some harsh realists on this thread, who have the stones to ask some seriously tough questions.

There are still some serious questions that need to be asked about our club, but so far it seems to be working in spite of a potentially messy situation.

You think Jimmy should be "moved on" as well do you?? You think the MFC could look itself right in the eye after doing that do you?

This place is only just starting to rebuild because of Jimmy....The whole club would fall over itself like a pack of cards....Let the Stynes energy through the place as long as we can.....once he has gone he is a long time gone-don't forget that.

[Guest Jackie]

You think Jimmy should be "moved on" as well do you?? You think the MFC could look itself right in the eye after doing that do you?

This place is only just starting to rebuild because of Jimmy....The whole club would fall over itself like a pack of cards....Let the Stynes energy through the place as long as we can.....once he has gone he is a long time gone-don't forget that.

Most fans are under no illusion to what is happening with Jimmy's private situation and also with his role within the club but most choose to show respect and empaphy. We know he now has a limited duties and others are rallying around him to help but he is still our figurehead and even if his position becomes completely honorary he will not lose that position.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Jackie

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

Most fans are under no illusion to what is happening with Jimmy's private situation and also with his role within the club but most choose to show respect and empaphy. We know he now has a limited duties and others are rallying around him to help but he is still our figurehead and even if his position becomes completely honorary he will not lose that position.

i am well aware of all that but TimD and a few others are not showing that same respect....Sure Jimma now has limited duties, but they can still be very important ones....

[daisycutter 29,343]

I just call it the Charity $$$

why not call it our "entitlement $$$" or our "dividend $$$"

calling it our Charity $$$ is like calling it our "Bend-over and take-it $$$". Sometimes we act as our own worst enemy.

[Demonsterative 3,018]

This is why I like my club being a club that asks 'how would the person feel about that'? It has a part to play in every organisation. Including a multi national company.

Jimmy Stynes and the MFC have been in a long term relationship and it has been functionally good for both parties for decades. The day the MFC turns on Jimmy due to his inabilty to act as a functional President will be the day i turn my back on the club.

He is the 'Spiritual Leader' and that plays a pivotal part in the make up of the club. His illness transcends the MFC to every club and the AFL. Every club supporter, AFL supporter and non supporter are dropping any deep seated bias and banding together to hope for the well being for the guy

This post is not sentimental tripe. To talk tough and suggest to drop the guy as he is unable to function at 100% is just wrong. Its not even human. Jim inspires ppl and the players/club.

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

This is why I like my club being a club that asks 'how would the person feel about that'? It has a part to play in every organisation. Including a multi national company.

Jimmy Stynes and the MFC have been in a long term relationship and it has been functionally good for both parties for decades. The day the MFC turns on Jimmy due to his inabilty to act as a functional President will be the day i turn my back on the club.

He is the 'Spiritual Leader' and that plays a pivotal part in the make up of the club. His illness transcends the MFC to every club and the AFL. Every club supporter, AFL supporter and non supporter are dropping any deep seated bias and banding together to hope for the well being for the guy

This post is not sentimental tripe. To talk tough and suggest to drop the guy as he is unable  to function at 100% is just wrong. Its not even human. Jim inspires ppl and the players/club.

Bravo....This is the exact point i have been trying to get across...we can still be a tough as nails club that has a soul...

[Dr. Gonzo 23,723]

FMD so now we are the club that kicks our President (the bloke who put his hand up and did the hard yards to bring our club back from the brink when no-one else would) when he is down? Some people here are really suggesting we get rid of Stynes? On what basis? Look at the transformation of the club since he took over. Rome wasn't built in a day and there is still work to go but remember before he came on board we had some tennis wannabe with no clue galavanting around Wimbledon and the club was run by accountants and insurance nerds. Football is more than a business when will people start to realise this? You need the supporters, officials and players to be inspired with the club and its leadership not to merely be able to give the best budget presentation at the AGM. Some people really don't know what they've got til its gone.

[Akum 2,660]

Bailey wasn't sacked in 48 hours, I am certain that his position was under very close scrutiny from those who knew football from very early in the season. Evidence was overwhelming that Bailey was just not working. I am not too sure what could have been done differently. Lyon was able to do the job without emotion and with only the interests of the club at heart with and no allegiances.

Totally agree DDM. IMO at the end of 2010 season it was just too hard (or impossible?) to tell whether or not Bailey was capable of taking us further. But as season 2011 progressed, it became clearer and clearer that he wasn't, until 186 when it became blindingly obvious.

But a lot of strange things happened - or, more accurately, were reported as happening - in the week before 186.

[Blistering 538]

There are clearly some issues with having as President someone with Jimmy's health concerns. I doubt there would be many who haven't had at least a passing thought about whether it would be good for him or the club to remain as our leader. But I see no reason why the situation needs to be changed at this point in time while his deputy and his CEO are in place and Sugar is apparently about to come on board. The current set up might not be ideal but it's a hell of a lot better now than it was six months ago and if people are concerned that we might have looked bad because Bailey wasn't told to his face that he had the sack that would look like a mole hill compared to telling Jimmy to move on. I'm glad we have a moral compass because it will hold us in good stead in this new era to come.

[Kento80 83]

The people who will never be forgotten; the architects of Melbourne's 13th premiership:

Jim Stynes

Garry Lyon

Don McLardie

Mark Neeld

Quality men and true Demons. (Maybe a bit premature on Mark, but I'm optimistic!)

Think you are rather unfairly overlooking one Cameron Schwab there Allus Monk. For some reason the man never seems to get the credit he deserves for someone so hardworking and passionate about the success of the MFC.

Great post old.

I wonder what it says about the board that Gary is seen as having the influence he does? I wonder what it says about Jim that Gary has the influence he does. I wonder if Bailey was white-anted by Gary for about 18/12 until he went and now, lo-and-behold footy expenditure has gone through the roof?

The more I think about it, the more I wonder about the Board. And about how much longer we should accept the role of president being used as pre-palliative care. I wonder if anyone has the guts to get Jimmy to move on? If he were prime minister, he would be forced aside. If he ran policing, or health care - hell if he ran a serious business he would be moved on. If he was your accountant or GP none of you would see him - well, not for anything imporant. I think it says an awful lot that the mood of melboune supports is to canonise a living man and absolve him of his responsibilities...and line up to blame the first poor dolt who mis-fires.

At least Gary sounds like he's been an effective figure-head (at worst).

Tim, I can sort of understand where you are coming from here, but as has been said by others above, there has to be some room for empathy in this debate. Jimmy has given his all for this club since the day he arrived on our soil. And without him, it is pretty fair to say that we may not even have a club to support anymore. I know that the revival of the MFC wasn't all down to him and his work, as there are many great people at the MFC who love the club and work tirelessly to help it succeed. But what Jimmy did was give them the vision. He designed the house, and then a whole team of people went out and built it in a way that we can all be proud of. This house is not without faults, but it's bloody well on its way, and surely we are all big enough to show him the love, respect and gratitude that he deserves for such an effort. I don't care if he ends up in a hospital bed for the next 8 months, 12 months, 2 years, whatever, but you can't take away something so cherished from a man who has given so much. And I firmly believe that despite him only being able to have a limited role at the club, he would be consulted on many things day to day, but more importantly, the hope and zest for life that this man still has inspires all those around him, and the power of this inspiration cannot be underestimated.

I, for one, am extremely grateful to all involved in this rather rocky, but ultimately fruitful period. I really do feel that we are now in the best position we have been in in my time. It has to be said that time will tell, and all may not turn out as I hope, but in the meantime these people have given hope to a supporter who has had to deal with alot of disappointment over the years (and some of you many more years than I), and for that alone I am thankful. Thanks Gazza, Jimmy, Don, Cameron, Mark and every other person at the MFC that is working to earn, for all of us, that prize we all desire so much.