Wonder if Clint Bartram has any history with the new coach given Clint was probably at Ocean Grove around the same time.

was thinking the same. having watched nicoski shank the ball for years out of the eagles backline and being re invented as a forward, is this an option for clint? would have to work seriously on his goal kicking

New coach, everything to prove. I don't see anybody not standing up for Neeld.

Ive , rightly or wrongly , sort of got the impression that Neeld is something akin to a player-whisperer. Im hoping that theres a couple of guys currently not playing to their potential that get the 'magic' and lift.

Some are a tad dissappointing arent they.

I expect the whole list to stand up..After what has happened tody all players would see clearly..It's Put up or shut up time.....

Jordie McKenzie. I know he already has toughness and workrate, but one thing all of the Collingwood Mids can do is kick. I can see a drastic improvement from him in this regard over the next couple of years. I expect our mids to be far more dangerous around goal in future.

Grimes into the midfield... really need a consistent player who has good efficiency in there.

was thinking the same. having watched nicoski shank the ball for years out of the eagles backline and being re invented as a forward, is this an option for clint? would have to work seriously on his goal kicking

The thing about Nicoski is he's always been a good kick but horrible and hitting targets if that makes any sense. So when the target becomes a 7m wide area with unlimited depth he can hit it. Watch him snap for goal he's deadly on the left foot snap.

Someone like Daniel Bell or Simon Buckley would be similar. No problems with the whole boot to ball thing, but it doesn't go to the right team. Poor old Barty can't really hit the side of a barn, he just plain old shanks them. Hopefully Neeld can teach him skills, but I doubt it. That said I think Bartram will be important as he'll be a player who sets the stardard with regards to ruthlessness and hard running. Wouldn't surprise me if he keeps the tagging role until others step up in the midfield.

1 out of 3 there Dg.

Sylvia will have a good year.

Green is probably in his last year and there is a chance he will be a bit better than 2011.

Bennell will need a miracle I doubt JC could change him.

JB showed in his last 2 games that he has blistering pace and is a genuine contest winner. Some Johnny Cash in his ipod would help him as well .

Ok, I accept all of what you are saying... and I think that is the crux of the matter... Jones is willing to go into the contest where no sane person would and then will come out of it looking poor because his team mates have gone awol and he has had no one to clear the ball to.

This is the major issue for mine. Once Jones gets some real midfield support, I think the call can be made on his skills, which it seems most here believe to be subpar.

This is the major issue for mine. Once Jones gets some real midfield support, I think the call can be made on his skills, which it seems most here believe to be subpar.

I think the criticism of Jones' skills is totally unjustified, especially when there is an insane amount of love for Jack Grimes.

For those that are happy to hang $hit on Jones' (lack of) efficiency, please put up some figures/evidence to support your case. But be sure to put up all listed players just so we can get an idea as to where Jones stands in this area.

JB showed in his last 2 games that he has blistering pace and is a genuine contest winner. Some Johnny Cash in his ipod would help him as well .

Not unlike a few others in the team Biff it is always against the poorer teams.

And even in those last couple of games he goes missing for whole quarters.

I just do not think he is up to AFL standard.

He will probably be at the Dees in 2012 but he will want to play a lot better than the average of his first 51 games.

At the top of the list of beneficiaries of this clean out & appointment of neeld has to be Col Sylvia & Jamie Bennell.

At the top of the list of beneficiaries of this clean out & appointment of neeld has to be Col Sylvia & Jamie Bennell.

What happened to the Mafia staff-car factory avatar WYL? Did you lose it in the upgrade? LOL

Garland after Neeld moves him to a wing.

At the top of the list of beneficiaries of this clean out & appointment of neeld has to be Col Sylvia & Jamie Bennell.

Why?

Not being smart.

Just like to know Why.

I think the criticism of Jones' skills is totally unjustified, especially when there is an insane amount of love for Jack Grimes.

For those that are happy to hang $hit on Jones' (lack of) efficiency, please put up some figures/evidence to support your case. But be sure to put up all listed players just so we can get an idea as to where Jones stands in this area.

Totally agree with this. Jones has won me over with his kicking skills in the last year, I'd definitely back his skills over what I've seen of Grimes.

If he continues on his improvement path, I reckon he'll be one to watch in 2012.

In terms of who else I'll tip to stand up:

:- Davey will bounce back to his best with more intensity, I think we'll see him chasing again too.

:- Sylvia

:- Gysberts ... this is more in hope, I'm really unsure of what kind of footballer he'll be in the future but we need another elite midfielder desperately.

Totally agree with this. Jones has won me over with his kicking skills in the last year, I'd definitely back his skills over what I've seen of Grimes.

If he continues on his improvement path, I reckon he'll be one to watch in 2012.

In terms of who else I'll tip to stand up:

:- Davey will bounce back to his best with more intensity, I think we'll see him chasing again too.

:- Sylvia

:- Gysberts ... this is more in hope, I'm really unsure of what kind of footballer he'll be in the future but we need another elite midfielder desperately.

Jonesy's kicking skills certainly improved a lot this year

If he can show the same improvement next year some people may change their minds on his kicking

(maybe it will take more than one year )

Totally agree with this. Jones has won me over with his kicking skills in the last year, I'd definitely back his skills over what I've seen of Grimes.

If he continues on his improvement path, I reckon he'll be one to watch in 2012.

In terms of who else I'll tip to stand up:

:- Davey will bounce back to his best with more intensity, I think we'll see him chasing again too.

:- Sylvia

:- Gysberts ... this is more in hope, I'm really unsure of what kind of footballer he'll be in the future but we need another elite midfielder desperately.

As per usual Buzzy, when you challenge these Jones-knockers and ask for evidence of their statements, they crawl under their rock and aren't seen for a couple of weeks, when they come back, give Jones another spray, and hope that they go unchallenged.

To make their life a bit easier, I have found this information in the individual player stats on the Herald Sun site. While I appreciate stats can be tailored to provide any opinion with substance, I do think this one is pretty hard to argue against;

Player/Total Disposals 2011/Disposal efficiency;

Jack Trengove/387/72%

Colin Sylvia/380/68%

Brent Moloney/509/73%

NATHAN JONES/507/73%

And for a couple of sharp-shooters from other clubs;

Chris Judd/633/67%

Marc Murphy/699/74%

Bryce Gibbs/548/74%

Joel Selwood/465/72%

Jimmy Bartel/485/75%

Scott Pendlebury/677/78%

Dane Swan/708/70%

An unbiased view of those stats would say that our "Fab 4" are right at the industry standard in terms of efficency of disposal, however, we need to get our hands on the pill more often.

Player/Total Disposals 2011/Disposal efficiency;

Jack Trengove/387/72%

Colin Sylvia/380/68%

Brent Moloney/509/73%

NATHAN JONES/507/73%

And for a couple of sharp-shooters from other clubs;

Chris Judd/633/67%

Marc Murphy/699/74%

Bryce Gibbs/548/74%

Joel Selwood/465/72%

Jimmy Bartel/485/75%

Scott Pendlebury/677/78%

Dane Swan/708/70%

An unbiased view of those stats would say that our "Fab 4" are right at the industry standard in terms of efficency of disposal, however, we need to get our hands on the pill more often.

I don't think you can read too much into the efficiency stat. I mean look at Judd...

And are we talking about kicks here or disposals?

I have enjoyed Jones' year and he gets undeserved criticism but this stat in isolation is not convincing.

I don't think you can read too much into the efficiency stat. I mean look at Judd...

And are we talking about kicks here or disposals?

I have enjoyed Jones' year and he gets undeserved criticism but this stat in isolation is not convincing.

RPFC, you are looking far too much in to it. This is one of the most basic stats, which I'm sure is why people struggle to get a full understanding of it (not saying you are in this group!).

Nathan Jones had 507 disposals, where 73% of those (370) hit its desired target. The question is about the ones that don't hit the target - how much damage do they do? It's a great question (not sure why I had to ask it when I'm the one sticking up for him!!!), but I'm of the strong view that ANY ineffective disposal, by any player for any team, is damaging. To have the ball and to give it to the opposition is just as damaging 20m out from our goal as it is 20m out from their goal.

Judd is a superstar, he gets a lot of the ball. The huge difference is that when he is efficient, those possessions are so damaging. Maybe that's why his efficiency isn't as high as some - he takes high risks that are high reward.

Why?

Not being smart.

Just like to know Why.

Col has the ability to win games off his own boot...He just needs more mental toughness.

JB has blistering pace that i do not feel he fully knows how to utilize yet.

Just a hunch.

You only ever get to make one first impression, so i'd say that all players will try and stand up for Neeld. Whether they can sustain it is another thing all together.

Neeld strikes me as a coach who demands that all players stand up, if you don't, you're gonna find yourself moving out very soon (which can only be a good thing).

Demanding 100% and that you give 100% are 2 completely different things. One measures ability, the other endeavour. We've seen times at the MFC where there has been (brace yourself for the dreaded word) the potential for 100%, but never in my lifetime have i seen an MFC outfit show 100% in endeavour for more than 1 week at a time.

You only ever get to make one first impression, so i'd say that all players will try and stand up for Neeld. Whether they can sustain it is another thing all together.

Neeld strikes me as a coach who demands that all players stand up, if you don't, you're gonna find yourself moving out very soon (which can only be a good thing).

Demanding 100% and that you give 100% are 2 completely different things. One measures ability, the other endeavour. We've seen times at the MFC where there has been (brace yourself for the dreaded word) the potential for 100%, but never in my lifetime have i seen an MFC outfit show 100% in endeavour for more than 1 week at a time.

Exactly, one would hope the whole team will stand up and be counted. If they don't ,"see you later alligator!'

I guess the short answer (hopefully, presuming that he isn't all talk, and means what he says - no reason to doubt by the way) will be " anyone who wants to play for MFC".

I am really looking forward to seeing just who on our list is really up to the task -- some have obvious talent but haven't used it with any consistency, and these will be tested most.

Bring on 2012!

Exciting times lie ahead.

LJ -- Misson will pile on 10kg, Neeld will only accept hardness and from the fire will emerge a Gary Ablett snr-esque unstoppable force of nature.

Edited September 24, 201114 yr by pitchfork