Lack of onfield leadership

[deanox 9,927]

We are currently lacking on field leadership. Players who stand up when they need to, do the team thing, drag everyone along with them. Green and Davey are't doing it. Kerr, Cox and Embly did it against us. Everyone at Geelong is still doing it. This is a major area where we are struggling. Personally I don't have any problems with us letting go of Miller, Junior, Bruce et al. There were reasons for letting go all of them, and Junior was the only one of those three who actually displayed on field leadership. Our

We currently have 5 players over 27 (Green, Davey, Jamar, Moloney, Warnock) and only 3 more over 25 (Rivers, MacDonald, Sylvia). Of those 8 players, Jamar and Moloney are the only two playing consistent football. None of those players scream leadership when the chips are down.

In 1999 we lost our first round draft pick, in 2000 we lost our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Those players would now be 29 or 30 years old if still on our list. Add Luke Molan, Daniel Bell, Nick Smith who were all first round picks in 2001/02, and the fact the Scot Thompson (1st round 2000) and Brock Mclean (first round 2003) both left, we have a 5 year hole where we basically didn't add anything to our list. While there is a good chance none would have made it, that little bit of extra leadership and experience would sure be helpful around now.

I think some of these numbers are worth putting into perspective. 21-24 year olds don't tend to win you flags. They might add flair and skill and help win flags, but it is typically a senior core of players 25-28 who are winning flags, with a few quality older players doing their thing. We don't have this group of players.

I hate to think that until we have this then we can't expect the side to be true contenders. There are two ways I can see that we can influence this - keep drafting young and wait 3-4 years for us to really hit our straps or accelerate the process with some strategic recruiting.

I think we will go down the path of some strategic recruiting, maybe end of this year, maybe the year after. I am happy we haven't done that before now because I don't think the rest of the team was ready to step up, and I think any recruiting should be at the icing phase, not the development phase.

Any thoughts on this deficiency in our list?

Edited May 15, 2011 by deanox

[Akum 2,660]

Good point. In similar situations in the past, leadership was given to players in their early 20s like David Dench & Wayne Carey (there must have been others, these are just the only ones I can think of off the top of my head), over and above older teammates who weren't as good. And at the moment, it's the older group who need to shoulder the load but who aren't.

[Guest 36DD]

We are currently lacking on field leadership. Players who stand up when they need to, do the team thing, drag everyone along with them. Green and Davey are't doing it. Kerr, Cox and Embly did it against us. Everyone at Geelong is still doing it. This is a major area where we are struggling. Personally I don't have any problems with us letting go of Miller, Junior, Bruce et al. There were reasons for letting go all of them, and Junior was the only one of those three who actually displayed on field leadership. Our

We currently have 5 players over 27 (Green, Davey, Jamar, Moloney, Warnock) and only 3 more over 25 (Rivers, MacDonald, Sylvia). Of those 8 players, Jamar and Moloney are the only two playing consistent football. None of those players scream leadership when the chips are down.

In 1999 we lost our first round draft pick, in 2000 we lost our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Those players would now be 29 or 30 years old if still on our list. Add Luke Molan, Daniel Bell, Nick Smith who were all first round picks in 2001/02, and the fact the Scot Thompson (1st round 2000) and Brock Mclean (first round 2003) both left, we have a 5 year hole where we basically didn't add anything to our list. While there is a good chance none would have made it, that little bit of extra leadership and experience would sure be helpful around now.

I think some of these numbers are worth putting into perspective. 21-24 year olds don't tend to win you flags. They might add flair and skill and help win flags, but it is typically a senior core of players 25-28 who are winning flags, with a few quality older players doing their thing. We don't have this group of players.

I hate to think that until we have this then we can't expect the side to be true contenders. There are two ways I can see that we can influence this - keep drafting young and wait 3-4 years for us to really hit our straps or accelerate the process with some strategic recruiting.

I think we will go down the path of some strategic recruiting, maybe end of this year, maybe the year after. I am happy we haven't done that before now because I don't think the rest of the team was ready to step up, and I think any recruiting should be at the icing phase, not the development phase.

Any thoughts on this deficiency in our list?

Nice one, finally someone who understands where we are at, what currently is wrong with our team, the reasons for the deficiencies (drafting sanctions and questionable drafting) and continued drafting of youngsters with wise trading so eventually the hole in our list will be filled. Hopefully when we have worked through this slow and frustrating process we will be a vying for the flag for a long period and we will have rid ourselves of our mentally weak players.

[PeterJames 46]

Jamar Moloney AND Sylvia are playing consistent football. Colin is in the top three in the bluey at the moment.

But I agree with what you are saying. Moloney should have been captain and is showing real leadership, Sylvia tries to but isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Green has proven to be a shocking choice as captain. Not sure how Davey ever thought he would be captain, goes missing under the pump and the way he sulks when tagged is horrible!

[warren dean 193]

Good point. In similar situations in the past, leadership was given to players in their early 20s like David Dench & Wayne Carey (there must have been others, these are just the only ones I can think of off the top of my head), over and above older teammates who weren't as good. And at the moment, it's the older group who need to shoulder the load but who aren't.

Yep, Dench and Carey are good examples, as are Neale Daniher at Essendon (he was 21 but never got to lead them because of his knee injuries). Kernahan was in his second season at Carlton when he got the job - he had played 25 games although had played quite a few with Glenelg. He was 23. Greg Healy was 22 when he took over from Robbie Flower and Garry Lyon would have been 23 when he got the job in 1991. Of the better Captains I have seen Terry Daniher was 25 when he took over at the Bombers, Voss was in his very early 20's when appointed co-captain at Brisbane, Hird was 24. Most of these guys had already proven themselves great players before they took on the role, many became even better after they got it. For mine, Trengove has leadership written all over him. Is it too early for the club to give it to him? If so, then maybe Jamar for a year or 2. The current leadership group (with the exception of Grimes) all come up short for various reasons.

[waikikkamukau 62]

We are currently lacking on field leadership. Players who stand up when they need to, do the team thing, drag everyone along with them. Green and Davey are't doing it. Kerr, Cox and Embly did it against us. Everyone at Geelong is still doing it. This is a major area where we are struggling. Personally I don't have any problems with us letting go of Miller, Junior, Bruce et al. There were reasons for letting go all of them, and Junior was the only one of those three who actually displayed on field leadership. Our

We currently have 5 players over 27 (Green, Davey, Jamar, Moloney, Warnock) and only 3 more over 25 (Rivers, MacDonald, Sylvia). Of those 8 players, Jamar and Moloney are the only two playing consistent football. None of those players scream leadership when the chips are down.

In 1999 we lost our first round draft pick, in 2000 we lost our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Those players would now be 29 or 30 years old if still on our list. Add Luke Molan, Daniel Bell, Nick Smith who were all first round picks in 2001/02, and the fact the Scot Thompson (1st round 2000) and Brock Mclean (first round 2003) both left, we have a 5 year hole where we basically didn't add anything to our list. While there is a good chance none would have made it, that little bit of extra leadership and experience would sure be helpful around now.

I think some of these numbers are worth putting into perspective. 21-24 year olds don't tend to win you flags. They might add flair and skill and help win flags, but it is typically a senior core of players 25-28 who are winning flags, with a few quality older players doing their thing. We don't have this group of players.

I hate to think that until we have this then we can't expect the side to be true contenders. There are two ways I can see that we can influence this - keep drafting young and wait 3-4 years for us to really hit our straps or accelerate the process with some strategic recruiting.

I think we will go down the path of some strategic recruiting, maybe end of this year, maybe the year after. I am happy we haven't done that before now because I don't think the rest of the team was ready to step up, and I think any recruiting should be at the icing phase, not the development phase.

Any thoughts on this deficiency in our list?

I agree also with most of this however I'm not sure we should be hanging Green and Davey out to dry the whole team has a lot of ball gazers and only 5 or so players that are willing for the contested ball. They are our best options for right now. Both have been great clubmen and deserve a chance to lead the MFC consider it a retirement present. We are kidding ourselves if we ever thought Green would lead us to a flag! Realistically neither of them will be around when we come good hence the reason Junior, Bruce and Miller were moved on, they were not going to be part of the greater picture. If we had T Skull, Trengove, McKenzie and Chip all getting uninterrupted pre season's and playing from round one we'd have at least 5 wins!

The list is a constantly evolving thing always turning the pieces of the puzzle until the last one fits. Not only are they trying to build a list to win a premiership but also for sustainability and we are in a pretty good position. I think they have already gone down the path of strategic recruiting. Mid fielders have the longest shelf life and that is one area we have great stocks. Add to that another big man and some taller lead up players that can take contested marks around the midfield and we are on our way. We got some good young players last draft and as unfortunate as it is now I believe it will be a great opportunity to blood some more youngsters! No matter how green they are! I think Morton, is perfect trade bait to get another first round pick.

I think you'll probably find that the loss of a few players and the 5 year hole was most likely due to the fact that we had no money, no facilities and no leadership at the top!

I'm like everyone extremely frustrated at our current on field performance and I have seen this for many years. I still think that we are on the right track and am optimistic for the future! Go Dees!

Edited May 15, 2011 by Rogue
Readability

[Guest 36DD]

We currently have 5 players over 27 (Green, Davey, Jamar, Moloney, Warnock) and only 3 more over 25 (Rivers, MacDonald, Sylvia). Of those 8 players, Jamar and Moloney are the only two playing consistent football. None of those players scream leadership when the chips are down.

Any thoughts on this deficiency in our list?

Additionally, the 22-23 year olds are a bit of a concern for mine. Out of that group i'm very happy with Frawley and Garland, Jurrah could be an absolute superstar but is still a work in progress, Jones and Bartram are honest battlers, have improved immensely but how much improvement is left??? then we have Bate and Dunn who i think are wasted first round picks who haven't shown much and we should consider trading at seasons end and Wonna shows potential but really needs to get his fitness up to be an effective forward in todays footy.

[Harrisonrules 273]

We have made our bed and must now lay in it. I supported the strong cull at the time but it has proved a wrong decision. We tried for Judd but no go. You need several well established leaders at that mid age, but we'd be lucky to get one star.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

The worst part about the situation you are alluding to, is that way back in about 05, i remember saying to a mate that we will not progress anywhere as a club until the youngsters that we drafted and traded for(McLean, Sylvia, Beamer and co.), were to take over from our lack of leaders and players who could swing a game when it got tough(Bruce, Green, Yze and co). Yet here we are, discussing the exact same situation again another 5 years or so on, and I have no doubt it has been a pattern repeated for some 50 or so years now.

[Guest 36DD]

The worst part about the situation you are alluding to, is that way back in about 05, i remember saying to a mate that we will not progress anywhere as a club until the youngsters that we drafted and traded for(McLean, Sylvia, Beamer and co.), were to take over from our lack of leaders and players who could swing a game when it got tough(Bruce, Green, Yze and co). Yet here we are, discussing the exact same situation again another 5 years or so on, and I have no doubt it has been a pattern repeated for some 50 or so years now.

Comes back to culture and who is willing to break the cycle, Beamer earlier this year indicated that he was not yet prepared to break the cycle.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

We have made our bed and must now lay in it. I supported the strong cull at the time but it has proved a wrong decision. We tried for Judd but no go. You need several well established leaders at that mid age, but we'd be lucky to get one star.

Too true. We are in seriously bad shape in the leadership department.

I know the majority on here thought that moving Junior on was a good idea. It wasn`t only a poorly handled dismissal, it was a poor decision. He was not far away from career best form before he did his hammy against Carlton (and towelled up Judd for 3 quarters), and IIRC he was in the top 5-10 tacklers in the competition, something that apart from the Crows game last week, we have been abysmal at all year.

Even if his form dropped, he`d still be clearly a best 22 player for us. His leadership alone would be worth playing him, particular when we seem to have only Jamar (injured), Moloney and Sylvia (when he feels like it) showing any form of leadership week in week out.

[Striker475 696]

Too true. We are in seriously bad shape in the leadership department.

I know the majority on here thought that moving Junior on was a good idea. It wasn`t only a poorly handled dismissal, it was a poor decision. He was not far away from career best form before he did his hammy against Carlton (and towelled up Judd for 3 quarters), and IIRC he was in the top 5-10 tacklers in the competition, something that apart from the Crows game last week, we have been abysmal at all year.

Even if his form dropped, he`d still be clearly a best 22 player for us. His leadership alone would be worth playing him, particular when we seem to have only Jamar (injured), Moloney and Sylvia (when he feels like it) showing any form of leadership week in week out.

Yeah, I know. But the point was made - late last season against Hawthorn, our two key taggers were 34 and 31. Even handing one of these roles to one of those two for this season would be denying a chance to the younger crew. Bail has come on in leaps and bounds, Jordie may very well be a Junior type of player long-term as well. I do understand why the decision was made, still agree with it, but...that question of what if.

[DEELIGHTED 16]

I agree also with most of this however I'm not sure we should be hanging Green and Davey out to dry the whole team has a lot of ball gazers and only 5 or so players that are willing for the contested ball. They are our best options for right now. Both have been great clubmen and deserve a chance to lead the MFC consider it a retirement present. We are kidding ourselves if we ever thought Green would lead us to a flag! Realistically neither of them will be around when we come good hence the reason Junior, Bruce and Miller were moved on, they were not going to be part of the greater picture. If we had T Skull, Trengove, McKenzie and Chip all getting uninterrupted pre season's and playing from round one we'd have at least 5 wins!

The list is a constantly evolving thing always turning the pieces of the puzzle until the last one fits. Not only are they trying to build a list to win a premiership but also for sustainability and we are in a pretty good position. I think they have already gone down the path of strategic recruiting. Mid fielders have the longest shelf life and that is one area we have great stocks. Add to that another big man and some taller lead up players that can take contested marks around the midfield and we are on our way. We got some good young players last draft and as unfortunate as it is now I believe it will be a great opportunity to blood some more youngsters! No matter how green they are! I think Morton, is perfect trade bait to get another first round pick.

I think you'll probably find that the loss of a few players and the 5 year hole was most likely due to the fact that we had no money, no facilities and no leadership at the top!

I'm like everyone extremely frustrated at our current on field performance and I have seen this for many years. I still think that we are on the right track and am optimistic for the future! Go Dees!

well said

[Ned 156]

We are currently lacking on field leadership. Players who stand up when they need to, do the team thing, drag everyone along with them. Green and Davey are't doing it. Kerr, Cox and Embly did it against us. Everyone at Geelong is still doing it. This is a major area where we are struggling. Personally I don't have any problems with us letting go of Miller, Junior, Bruce et al. There were reasons for letting go all of them, and Junior was the only one of those three who actually displayed on field leadership. Our

We currently have 5 players over 27 (Green, Davey, Jamar, Moloney, Warnock) and only 3 more over 25 (Rivers, MacDonald, Sylvia). Of those 8 players, Jamar and Moloney are the only two playing consistent football. None of those players scream leadership when the chips are down.

In 1999 we lost our first round draft pick, in 2000 we lost our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Those players would now be 29 or 30 years old if still on our list. Add Luke Molan, Daniel Bell, Nick Smith who were all first round picks in 2001/02, and the fact the Scot Thompson (1st round 2000) and Brock Mclean (first round 2003) both left, we have a 5 year hole where we basically didn't add anything to our list. While there is a good chance none would have made it, that little bit of extra leadership and experience would sure be helpful around now.

I think some of these numbers are worth putting into perspective. 21-24 year olds don't tend to win you flags. They might add flair and skill and help win flags, but it is typically a senior core of players 25-28 who are winning flags, with a few quality older players doing their thing. We don't have this group of players.

I hate to think that until we have this then we can't expect the side to be true contenders. There are two ways I can see that we can influence this - keep drafting young and wait 3-4 years for us to really hit our straps or accelerate the process with some strategic recruiting.

I think we will go down the path of some strategic recruiting, maybe end of this year, maybe the year after. I am happy we haven't done that before now because I don't think the rest of the team was ready to step up, and I think any recruiting should be at the icing phase, not the development phase.

Any thoughts on this deficiency in our list?

I know it's a little off topic and I know they're not in the same category, but the loss of Lloyd and Junior harmed both Essendon and Melbourne. I don't count Lucas as he was clearly falling away. You don't fire captains that are still capable of performing. It destabilises the team and for that reason is stupid.

[Guest milpod]

I treat both my job and hobby with more passion then anyone I've seen on our list.I just hope the MFC culture never dulls players like Trengove.Any wonder Scully wants out.

When will we pick players who dig deep all day and have a go as opposed to front runners who fold under minuscule pressure?

[rpfc 28,441]

Preaching to the fracking choir...

If Bailey goes - the Leadership Group goes with him. Spill all positions.

Gather all players 23 and under and tell them to decide who, of that group, who will lead us into our era.

[Guest Gotzy15]

It is just sooo blatantly lacking atm.I was a big supporter in moving on guys like jnrmac,bizzell,brown,bell robertson Wheatley etc but geez was I wrong!I'm all for trying to develop young players and get as many games into them as possible but there has to be a balance.hindsight is great but it was very naive to think we could be successful and competitive without really tough experienced leaders.the only player who I'm consistently seeing provide great on field leadership this year is moloney and then jamar to an extent.but they are on their own!we can't afford to continue playing in patches and being like rabbits in the headlights when the other team have momentum and get a run on.no one takes the initiative to slow the game down and close it up a little!that is a huge lavk of on field leadership.I'm looking for a huge improvement over the coming weeks in this area from: green,davey,Sylvia,rivers and jones

[Guest Gotzy15]

Not to mention the fact we lack off field leadership!Bailey is a marshmallow

[Guest milpod]

Not to mention the fact we lack off field leadership!Bailey is a marshmallow

And all the players who have a dip are injured.With a few exceptions we really are the Melbourne Vixens.

So sad,a great football club has fallen so far.

[Nice'N'Neitz1 0]

why did we get rid of Mc Donald really bugs me as he alwsys tried, I agree that Moloney should be Captain, even Trengrove although perhaps still too young young, Green is excellent player (was last year) but I think not coping with being captain don't even know why we got rid of Robertson, at least he could kick goals and we are missing Bruce's experience. James McDonald could have played on for another year, but then we would have same problem if there is no-one to step up - PAY THEM MONTHLY WHAT THEY ARE WORTH!

Edited May 15, 2011 by Nice'N'Neitz1

[H_T 3,047]

We are currently lacking on field leadership. Players who stand up when they need to, do the team thing, drag everyone along with them. Green and Davey are't doing it. Kerr, Cox and Embly did it against us. Everyone at Geelong is still doing it. This is a major area where we are struggling. Personally I don't have any problems with us letting go of Miller, Junior, Bruce et al. There were reasons for letting go all of them, and Junior was the only one of those three who actually displayed on field leadership. Our

We currently have 5 players over 27 (Green, Davey, Jamar, Moloney, Warnock) and only 3 more over 25 (Rivers, MacDonald, Sylvia). Of those 8 players, Jamar and Moloney are the only two playing consistent football. None of those players scream leadership when the chips are down.

....

....

Any thoughts on this deficiency in our list?

My thoughts are here in my Leadership lacking thread. My thoughts precisely.

[frankie_d 1,471]

Frawley continued to take the game on when others had dropped their heads. He's not often spoken about as a leader, yet I think he is. I must say that the last line looks better with Warnock in it - I know there are varying views on him, but he contests, can man up to the gorillas, and his disposal is good.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Good point. In similar situations in the past, leadership was given to players in their early 20s like David Dench & Wayne Carey (there must have been others, these are just the only ones I can think of off the top of my head), over and above older teammates who weren't as good. And at the moment, it's the older group who need to shoulder the load but who aren't.

Leigh Colbert at Geelong?

Around the time they had zero leadership and a list transitioning from old to incredibly young.

Look what happened to them.

It just took a hell of a lot longer than most of our supporters are willing to wait.

Impatience and lack of understanding won't make it happen any sooner.

[demonique 314]

Quite frankly I don't like this leadership group thing, too many chiefs and not enough well you know what I mean, they are like Prefects at school Hated those suckholes ,well you know what I mean. I just feel it is divisive !!

Players lead by their courageous play and inspire others to do the same.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Wild Fire

[Guest Artie Bucco]

^^^ great post, for comedic value.