We are nice guys.

[Kento80 83]

I suppose it isn't a stretch to ask whether anyone here remembers the game the weekend after Jimmy announced he had cancer. Davey gives away a free before the bounce. Boys hit the field with a vengeance I've never seen before at the MFC. To those of you who will point it out, I know they were more experienced than the squad we have now, but I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of the unwavering determination the boys had to win that day despite the abysmal season they had had till then.If you have that absolute determination to win you will not win every game, but you will make a damn better stick of it than yesterday.

I do not want to see thugs on field in an MFC jumper, but by no means do I want to see players that aren't willing to put their bodies on the line to make sure they get the ball, affect the spoil, bring the ball out of the backline, cause a turnover or kick a bl*@dy goal. These things are basics, things you are taught when you are young, attributes these kids would have admired in their heroes when they were growing up. The skills will come, and for some the mongrel might come too, but I worry that it is an attribute that some of our KEY players need but unfortunately lack. Just try to imagine the filth winning the flag last year without it, I reckon I can pretty safely say it wouldn't have happened. Some of it will build as the players build a confidence in their strength and skills, and also a confidence in the gameplan their coaches teach them. All we supporters want to see now is not the final product, but at least the foundations for it, however unfortunately it is not at all evident at the moment.

[Ned 156]

I just feel that there is a lack of real aggression by our players and that we are incapable of playing what has been called unsociable football. We had Rioli who dominated, knock down Jones with no heavy treatment returned and a similar effort by Hodge came and went. Then we had a player who walked out on us not given any close checking or aggressive play, especially early on in the game. When the Hawks got on top unlike what would happen to us in a similar position, we stood back and watched.

I know it will be argued that we have a lot of youngsters but we also have some senior players as well and they should lead the way. I am not advocating a king hit but rather heavy aggressive tackling when the other side starts to get on top. We gave away plenty of 50's for a side step, I would rather get them for a heavy tackle a la Guerra and Hodge etc.

I think the other clubs regard us as nice guys and we therefore don't intimidate other clubs. There are plenty of players who can be put off their game by aggressive play but we never seem to be the ones in the positive position.

Lastly I am not saying we lost yesterday because of this but rather it is a general observation of our mindset.

Couldn't agree more. That Rioli could punch one of our players and no one at least knocked him over afterwards (even with just a bump) was pathetic. I don't advocate violence but the day we beat Hawthorn will be the day when no one on the team takes a step back.

[Redleg 37,907]

I just finished watching the game again and in the third quarter Healy made an interesting comment, he said that "the Hawks have Melbourne mentally beaten".

I think we were about 3 goals down at the time.

[Dockett 32 1,213]

The niceness thing is a bit of a problem. Would be nice if a few of our blokes had a bit of Scarlett, Moody, Chapman mentality about them.

[Kento80 83]

I just finished watching the game again and in the third quarter Healy made an interesting comment, he said that "the Hawks have Melbourne mentally beaten".

I think we were about 3 goals down at the time.

So true RL. I know it sounds simplistic, but Franklins goal from the sideline beat singlehandedly IMO. As soon as he got that he was up and about, his lack of confidence from the first half was gone and it rubbed off on everyone around him. The other was the spray Sam Mitchell copped from Clarko, from what I've heard of it it was torrid and directly related with a change in Mitchells game.

[Redleg 37,907]

So if they're not doing it - and I assume you think they're not, given your thread - then I ask the question; why not?

I'm pretty sure there's no coaching instruction that asserts 'do not be hard, tough and uncompromising'.

Obviously the Coach doesn't say play soft. It could be a mental thing with certain individuals, I don't know the answer.

There will be games this year where we are up and flying and we will really look the goods and then there will be games like yesterday. Against some teams we will look hard, fast, sharp and really switched on and some on here will think we are a top team and then reality will bite again.

I think some blokes are just mentally tougher than others and a team like the Hawks have several in that mould. A guy like Hodge is not overly big but boy is he tough, when he goes for the ball that is all he sees. We probably have a few like that but need more. I am not sure that just getting more games under your belt necessarily alters your mental makeup. I think you either have it or you don't. So in the end if you want it, you recruit it. Tapscott fits the mould nicely of the recent recruits. We probably need a few more like him.

[Roost It 1,434]

It's also hard to be tough when you wear a pink jumper.

[Trisul 640]

It's also hard to be tough when you wear a pink jumper.

Chuckle.

Some people would disagree.

[Redleg 37,907]

we copped a pasting on "On the Couch" the stats were terrible. More to come in the papers. Hawks 310 uncontested possessions and us 40 tackles. 7 inside 50's in 3rd quarter and 60 points to nothing at one stage. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dee-luded 2,958]

Lads to Ladette's,,, MFC,,, Melbourne Finishing College???

[jackaub 1,402]

I am sick of re-inventions, starting again, rebuilding.

I am sick of hearing from mild-manered coaches, players and leaders.

I am sick of mildly going about our business like some 1950's MCC ladies auxilliary.

No, I do not want thuggery - turns me off our great game.

I reckon the last coach/leader at our club who wasn't mild was John Northey!!

I want some ticker.

I want us to play angry AND smart and not be sorry for it.

I want to see my coach using negative psychology (a good rant or spray) in the face of a player who would respond to it.

No short steps to packs, light-legged outside runners or tiny-thighed waiters dominating our team structure (yes, I know, we need some)

Sitting behind the goals on Sunday night, it was great to hear some genuine anger, grunt, abuse and hot-headed-fan ranting from Melbourne fans. Too long we have golf-clapped our way through seasons!!

Boy... I really needed to type that.

Well Said Maldonboy

I cannot see anything changing at the MFC in the medium term

We select the wrong types of players looking for skills before power, looking for personality before aggression

How long will it take to get enough hard bodies at the ball

From my persepcetive it wont happen with this lot and this coach.

I cannot believe that any one in the club can still make excuses for that performance on Sunday

I suppose it doesnt surprise me because I see the same softness in the supporters as I do on the field

No more excuses can we forget about rebuilding, game plans young bodies ya ya ya and play some simple hard fierce football

.

[jackaub 1,402]

we copped a pasting on "On the Couch" the stats were terrible. More to come in the papers. Hawks 310 uncontested possessions and us 40 tackles. 7 inside 50's in 3rd quarter and 60 points to nothing at one stage. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not just "OUCH" disgracfull. I cringed watching it!

I wouldnt be surprised if that evening in the twilight cost us 5000 extra members

Its what happens when the club fullfills some peoples expectations- Soft not hard

[old dee 22,946]

Not just "OUCH" disgracfull. I cringed watching it!

I wouldnt be surprised if that evening in the twilight cost us 5000 extra members

Its what happens when the club fullfills some peoples expectations- Soft not hard

Agree I have been saying similar for weeks however be careful you will be accused of not being " a real supporter or similar"

My view 40000 mark went out the window about 7.00PM Sunday 3rd March.

[agent_orange 0]

I think its not being thugs but rather tackling harder. We got killed in the tackles - probably why they smashed us in the middle.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

we copped a pasting on "On the Couch" the stats were terrible. More to come in the papers. Hawks 310 uncontested possessions and us 40 tackles. 7 inside 50's in 3rd quarter and 60 points to nothing at one stage. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The stats for the whole game were terrible.

MFC's kids were monstered by a focussed and thorough top 4 side. Inside 50s 74-34 are embarrassing.

Its ordinary when not one of our senior players seemed to be visible when the heat was on.

[Weedster 174]

I know they kicked badly in the first half but the effort by the boys before half time was fantastic. I expect plenty would disagree but all the little things were there - smothering, shepherding etc. They looked the better side as should be expected but the effort was there. Win, lose or draw, I enjoy watching us when we give great effort.

That brings me to the second half. Our one percenters completely disappeared. They are a better side than us and I'd expect them to beat us at this stage but it was so demoralising to see an end all of the chasing, smothering and shepherding. These are the things that allow you to stop the momentum of a team who is firing. I can accept a 45 point loss, but the effort in the second half was terrible.

45 points flattered us - it could have been 20 goals !

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

WAC I think you are seeing what you want to see, at quarter time they were 1/7 if that had been 7/1 it would have been all over then.

Look at the stats they had more of everything than the Dees all day.

I understand that but I encourage you, as painful as it is to watch a replay of the game. I'm not saying that if we keep the effort up, we win the game, but there is a distinct difference in effort between the two halves.

Stats don't always tell the story when it comes to effort. If a hard-bodied opposition player goes to a contest with one of our whippets, and wins, it doesn't mean our whippet wasn't giving 100%, but the stats won't tell you that.

I wasn't for a second trying to say that Hawthorn didn't dominate the game - I just noticed most Hawthorn kicks being charged down in the first half.

If there is somewhere we can find the smother stat differential between the first and second half, I may have some evidence in your language.

[old dee 22,946]

He is obviously far worse than you are aware of.

I will except that

however I will stay with my view that "nice Boys'

do not necessarily make a GF winning team.

I think we need a few mongrels.

Edited April 5, 2011 by old dee

[dee-luded 2,958]

I think its not being thugs but rather tackling harder. We got killed in the tackles - probably why they smashed us in the middle.

No one urging "strong" play used the word 'thug'.

Only the oppologists and hand wringers are using the shut down terminology.

We others want the Hardassed footy back that Barrassi and McMahon and others brought with their kit. None of this Silk lapel rubbish.

[old dee 22,946]

I understand that but I encourage you, as painful as it is to watch a replay of the game. I'm not saying that if we keep the effort up, we win the game, but there is a distinct difference in effort between the two halves.

Stats don't always tell the story when it comes to effort. If a hard-bodied opposition player goes to a contest with one of our whippets, and wins, it doesn't mean our whippet wasn't giving 100%, but the stats won't tell you that.

I wasn't for a second trying to say that Hawthorn didn't dominate the game - I just noticed most Hawthorn kicks being charged down in the first half.

If there is somewhere we can find the smother stat differential between the first and second half, I may have some evidence in your language.

I was there in the flesh Once was too much!

I know it is our want to find positives in the worst of situations.

There is in my view very little in the first half that makes up for the second half.

Sorry to be a pain but the statt that I worry about is the final score.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

I was there in the flesh Once was too much!

I know it is our want to find positives in the worst of situations.

There is in my view very little in the first half that makes up for the second half.

Sorry to be a pain but the statt that I worry about is the final score.

Yeah, no worries mate. I pretty much agree with you, maybe not as focused on the final score at this stage but we both want the same thing.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I don't like thoughtless action for the sake of action.

The point is that they are easy ideals to bring up and use certain players as examples of absolutes, but in reality it's all shades of grey, no matter what you say.

Did you think it was thoughtless action when Hawthorn had their line in the sand game and declared they wouldn't be intimidated anymore? I thought it was very clever and it worked.

We have been considered the weakest team in the competition for as long as I can remember and I for one would like it if the other club's didn't relish the prospect of playing us anymore.

I want to see more of Tappy handing it out to the opposition and perhaps a few of the other boys might just join in.

[Redleg 37,907]

The stats for the whole game were terrible.

MFC's kids were monstered by a focussed and thorough top 4 side. Inside 50s 74-34 are embarrassing.

Its ordinary when not one of our senior players seemed to be visible when the heat was on.

Another worrying issue besides the fact that we have few strong bodied forwards like Cloke, Dawes and Brown or more recently Buddy, Roughie and Hale is that our kicking, especially in the backline was atrocious. I rewatched the game and saw Grimes and Tappy ( inexperienced I know ) play on from a behind kick off and get brought down with the ball. Also Grimes on at least 3 occasions with no pressure miskicked to the Hawks in general play when he had players to kick to. I am talking about 20-30 metre passes. That is very worrying, as it is the second week he has done this.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

namby pamby my arse. The games tougher physically and mentally than it's ever been. Just because players don't go around king hitting each other means little. Sit on the boundary line and watch, listen and feel how hard the players hit, how fast the game is and how switched on you need to be to play it.

Spot on Roost. I sat behind the Interchange Bench for the 2004 GF. The sound of the Hits was FULL ON. And that was 7 years ago, no wonder that the Rotations ballooned in the future years. I an still staggered players can withstand it for 2 hours

There is nothing Namby Pamby about modern football, players are fully professional now so they learn more strategies & set plays.

A set play in the old days was finding the Beer esky at half time.

[old dee 22,946]

Spot on Roost. I sat behind the Interchange Bench for the 2004 GF. The sound of the Hits was FULL ON. And that was 7 years ago, no wonder that the Rotations ballooned in the future years. I an still staggered players can withstand it for 2 hours

There is nothing Namby Pamby about modern football, players are fully professional now so they learn more strategies & set plays.

A set play in the old days was finding the Beer esky at half time.

Is that from experience WYL?

However I do agree with you it is not a game for the faint hearted.

Some players have the ability of imposing themsleves on the game and others don't.

We just need a few more imposers