Defensive: Bartram, Garland, Macdonald, Bail, Rivers, Grimes

Guts: Jamar, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Moloney, Sylvia

Forwards: Watts, Bate, Dunn, Green, Jurrah, Maric

Pine: Petterd, Jones, Martin

Sub: Jetta

For the purposes of this thread I'm more interested in the discussion and the balance of teams and the rationale than the actual team. I've also named them in groups rather than positions - if you'd prefer to name yours in positions then feel free.

I've tried to balance the team I'd like to see with the team I'd expect to see in an attempt to come up with a realistic round one team. As an example of this, I've got Jones in the bench where I'd have preferred Jetta on pre-season form (this didn't actually come down to a choice between Jones and Jetta though - I'll elaborate further on). I started out by listing the entire team (from memory, so hopefully there aren't any embarrassing omissions), scratched off the "definitely won't" play, putting the "definitely will play" in position, then filling in the gaps as necessary.

I've assumed Frawley, Morton, McKenzie and Newton are unavailable through injury.

The sticking points for me were:

- Ruck. The second ruck problem for me was by far the hardest to solve. I couldn't decide whether we needed a second ruck in the side and in the end went with the safer option of having him in the side with the runner (Jetta) as the sub, rather than vice versa. The logic in the end was that I believe it's a lot easier and much less risky to sub out the ruckman with a runner than being forced in to subbing a runner with a ruckman. I chose Martin more out of 'type' than any belief in his ability to fill the role - given that his time in ruck should be significantly less than 50%, then he needs to be mobile and able to fill other roles. I don't think Spencer meets the guidelines there. Despite his lack of popularity around here, I'd have chosen Newton if he were fit as I believe this is the role he is on the list to perform. I also considered Dunn as the pinch-hit ruckman, but I thought that was too risky an approach, a) because he could get cained in the ruck and B) he fills an important role in the forward line.

- On pre-season form I really wanted Jetta in the side but couldn't make it happen - but he's there as "plan B" if Martin spuds it up.

- Maric vs Wonaeamirri - I like the latter more but with pre-season fitness and form, it was a no-brainer at this point. I'm very glad there might be some competition for this spot.

- Bate. I'm not sure he's got a place forever but found it surprisingly difficult to find a better alternative as a marking option. I'll be surprised if he doesn't play.

Interested in the thoughts of others.

"Boys back in Economy": Bartram, Garland, Macdonald, Bail, Rivers, Grimes

"In the Guts": Jamar, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Moloney, Sylvia

"Show me the Money Men": Watts, Bate, Petterd, Green, Jurrah, Maric

"Splinter Men": Dunn, Jones, Martin

"Flouro Man": Jetta

Good thread Nasher. My thoughts are very similar to yours - The sub, 2nd Ruck, etc. Although I started Dunn on the pine for Petterd.

Defensive: Bartram, Garland, Macdonald, Bail, Rivers, Grimes

Guts: Jamar, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Moloney, Sylvia

Forwards: Howe, Bate, Dunn, Green, Jurrah, Maric

Pine: Petterd, Jones, Jetta, Benell

Sub: gysberts/strauss

I wonder if teams might go with an extra runner than semi big man as their sub. A risk if your ruck is injured but might be able to keep up the rotations with the runner. in our case i reckon dunn can give Jamar the chop out and after all he played the whole year without much support and made all australian

I posted this in the other round one team thread last week.

FB - Bartram Garland Rivers

HB - Bennell MacDonald Grimes

C - Davey Moloney Green

HF - Sylvia Watts Jurrah

FF - Martin Petterd Maric

R - Jamar Scully Trengove

i - Dunn, Jones, Maric

sub - Bail

emergency - Bate

Dunn to tag Goodes, swap him to where ever Goods lines up (might be with MacDonald if in forward line, Trengove if in the middle) - Probably the only player that can run with him and compete for strength and height

Martin in the 21 to provide ruck relief, from the forward or backline, depending on matchups.

Bartram - Best stopper in the backline outweighs poor disposal

Garland to take the most dangerous forward

MacDonald/Rivers - Similar strengths weaknesses, one will go out for Frawley

Grimes to stay in the backline

Davey and Bennell to work the HBF Wing position to provide run/class/pressure of the half back line and deliver to the forwards

Scully, Trengove, Moloney, Jones Jetta to rotate on the ball with stints from Davey, Sylvia, Maric, Bennell

Green to the Wing - I think he is better at FF, but for team balance with Petterd I'd move him up the ground. From there he can also push further up the ground if we are struggling to clear out of the backline, and deliver into the forwards.

Sylvia on the HFF rotating into the middle. This is where he does the most damage.

Watts at CHF - Not ideal for another year or two, but with Jurrah and Sylvia there he won't get all of the attention. Would also like to see him cover ground from deep forward to HBF.

Jurrah Floating around HF/FF/Wing. I think he plays best when given a bit of freedom to roam – as long as he puts pressure on when the Swans have the ball

Maric looks to have forced his way in. I like Wonna more, but at this stage it has to be Maric.

Moloney is still the best clearance player, and can't expect a bunch of 19 year olds to cope with all the work. Has his weaknesses and may not be there long term

Scully/Trengove – The future onballers are a walk up start

Jamar - No explanation necessary.

Jetta has tackled his way into the side.

Jones is still best 21 in my opinion. Will run and tackle all day. Needs to work on a few things to hold his place, but half the midfield are still kids, so need his size.

Bail to sub on for some run late. I good cameo and I can see him slidding into the side early in the season

Emergency

Bate - I rate him, but Dunn is in front of him for the Goodes matchup, Martin infrount for Ruck, Watts infrount for development.

I still think this side is short of a tall down forward, a skilled backman and another onballer. Any chance the AFL will change to a six man bench?????

Defensive: Bartram, Garland, Macdonald, Bail, Rivers, Grimes

Guts: Jamar, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Moloney, Sylvia

Forwards: Howe, Bate, Dunn, Green, Jurrah, Maric

Pine: Petterd, Jones, Jetta, Benell

Sub: gysberts/strauss

I wonder if teams might go with an extra runner than semi big man. A risk if your ruck is injured but might be able to keep up the rotations with the runner. in our case i reckon dunn can give Jamar the chop out and after all he played the whole year without much support and made all australian

I note from my team you've got Howe in the place of Watts - what are your thoughts there?

[Minor point - you've got 4 on the bench when the max this year is 3]

I note from my team you've got Howe in the place of Watts - what are your thoughts there?

[Minor point - you've got 4 on the bench when the max this year is 3]

good point about the bench, Bate comes out of the side and Petterd starts on the ground

Howe for Watts? I don't think Watts is showing nearly enough defensive pressure and/or intensity and takes too few pack marks. Howe is older, more experiened playing against men and can take a big grab appraently (though to be fair haven't seen too many thus far). Has an X factor, woyuld like to see how he goes in the big time and we could do with a stronger player down there

Oh and i think i'll change my sub to tapscott

I think we will line up as follows

Backs Bartram, Garland, MacDonald, Rivers, Grimes, Bennell

Mids Sylvia, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Moloney, Jamar

Forwards Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, Dunn, Green, Maric

Bench Jones, Jetta, Martin

Sub Aussie

I have a feeling that Aussie may be the wild card, I can't find a spot for Bate, I just think the Sydney defenders will run off him all day.

Warnock anyone? I would have thought with Frawley out, we need another big bodied defender.

Defensive: Bartram, Garland, Macdonald, Bail, Rivers, Grimes

Guts: Jamar, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Moloney, Sylvia

Forwards: Watts, Bate, Dunn, Green, Jurrah, Maric

Pine: Petterd, Jones, Martin

Sub: Jetta

I can't have Bate, Dunn, Green and Petterd - really 4 medium forwards - all in the side.

One of Bate or Petterd has to go for me, possibly both.

I'd consider Bennell for a bit more pace and persevere with Strauss's kicking in the backline.

Bail, Bate or Petterd would be the potential outs. It's a tough one and I've squibbed a final 22.

Always reward good form even in practice matches.

Backs: Bartram, Garland, Bail, Rivers, Grimes, Jetta

Mids: Jamar, Trengove, Moloney, Scully, Davey, Sylvia

Forwards: Watts, Dunn, Maric, Petterd, Green, Jurrah

Int: Jones, Tapscott, Macdonald

Supersub: Martin

I think we'll beat the Swannies by 11 points in a classic struggle

What about Martin as a tag for Goodes?? Can match him for speed and height. Either that or Dunn I suspect.

Back: Bartram, Garland, Rivers, Grimes, MacDonald, Warnock

Mid: Jamar, Trengove, Jetta, Davey, Moloney, Scully

Fwd: Jurrah, Petterd, Sylvia, Green, Martin, Maric

Int:Jones, Dunn, Bennell

Sub: Watts

Warnock - we could get into match up trouble if White Goodes Pyke/Mumford all go forward at once.

Jetta - in form & deserves a spot.

Maric - see Jetta.

Interchange probably need at least two capable of going into the midfield. Dunn probably deserves to start on the ground too.

Watts - form not great but he will probably play. Could make a good sub at this stage.

Next in line: Bail, Wona, Tapscott, Gysberts.

B Rivers Warnock Bartram

HB Grimes Garland Bennell

C Jetta Scully Davey

HF Sylvia Dunn Watts

F Green Jurrah Maric

Fol- Jamar, Trengove, Moloney

Int- Jones, Bate, Bail

Sub- Tapscott

This is a mix of what i'd like to see and what i think i'll see.

Bails doesnt seem to omit Bennell or Jones too often so i think they'll both be in the side.

Sylvia is most damaging on a HF flank IMO

Jetta and Maric should play based on form - whilst both are small and mobile, they offer us different things (pressure vrs goals)

Key match ups:

Mumford / Jamar

Goodes / Grimes

Defenders: Garland, Rivers, Grimes, Bartram, Bail, MacDonald

Midfielders: Jamar, Moloney, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Sylvia

Forwards: Watts, Green, Jurrah, Dunn, Petterd, Maric

Bench: Jetta, Martin, Jones

Sub: Jetta

Without Morton to run with Goodes, I'm not sure who'll do that role. Might be Grimes, but he would be giving away oodles of height/strength. Frawley could have done it, but of course we don't have him either. Martin I'd say is too slow. Same with MacDonald. So that match up is a bit of a problem IMO.

Bate is not best 22. Dunn and Petterd play his role, but do it better.

Warnock misses out to Martin. Martin offers flexibility in that he can ruck, or help fill Frawley's absence if things aren't working well in defence. Has to start, we need a second ruck when Jamar will be going toe-to-toe with Mumford.

Backs: Bartram, Garland, Rivers, Grimes, MacDonald, Davey

Mids: Jamar, Trengove, Jetta, Sylvia, Moloney, Scully

Fwds: Jurrah, Petterd, Watts, Green, Maric, Dunn

Ints: Jones, Bennell, Tapscott

Sub: Martin

*Maric and Jetta rewarded for pre-season form I agree.

* Tappy to debut

* Stiff - Bail and Bater

Defensive: Bartram, Garland, Macdonald, Bail, Rivers, Grimes

Guts: Jamar, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Moloney, Sylvia

Forwards: Watts, Bate, Dunn, Green, Jurrah, Maric

Pine: Petterd, Jones, Martin

Sub: Jetta

The sticking points for me were:

- Maric vs Wonaeamirri - I like the latter more but with pre-season fitness and form, it was a no-brainer at this point. I'm very glad there might be some competition for this spot.

I know Warnock isn't popular atm but he is a dead certain starter. Jessie White will be playing FF and no one you have listed can play on White. Warnock will play. Bradshaw is iffy starter to but Garland might be an option. Goodes also playing more forward this year. Problems there if Bradshaw plays cause Garland can play on Goodes.

They won't have much of a defense. Bolton, LRT down, Kenelly and Malceski also but our attack isn't the greatest.

Bartram Warnock Garland

Davey Rivers Grimes

Sylvia Trengove Jetta

Watts Jurrah Green

Maric Jamar Dunn

Spencer Scully Moloney

Bail, Bennell, Jones, Sub. Tapscott

Very nervous having Warnock, Rivers, Bartram kicking so Davey to float back and help Grimes kick. Tapscott to come in at half time and DAvey pushes to the midfield.

Jetta deserves his spot in the middle.

Spencer to ruck the whole first half by himself. Sub off at half time and Jamar to ruck rest of the game. Tapscott plays a half cause he prob can't run out a full game.

FB: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

HB: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

C: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

HF: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

FF: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

R:JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

I know Warnock isn't popular atm but he is a dead certain starter. Jessie White will be playing FF and no one you have listed can play on White. Warnock will play. Bradshaw is iffy starter to but Garland might be an option. Goodes also playing more forward this year. Problems there if Bradshaw plays cause Garland can play on Goodes.

Spencer to ruck the whole first half by himself. Sub off at half time and Jamar to ruck rest of the game. Tapscott plays a half cause he prob can't run out a full game.

Interesting thoughts these 2.

If Sydney go with just White and Goodes then I'd say why bother playing Warnock. Play Joel Macdonald instead.

Also I'd go with Stef Martin over Spencer. That way he can go back if Sydney throw a ruckman forward. Let Jamar ruck 70% and play Martin the rest. Spencer is a much better tap ruckman than Martin but is just devoid of talent around the ground. Mumford would kill Spencer for footy smarts. We'd also be getting smashed in the clearances.

FB: Bartram Rivers Macdonald

HB: Grimes Garland Bennell

C: Scully Moloney Davey (drop into the backline)

HF: Petterd Watts Dunn

FF: Maric Green Jurrah

Foll: Jamar Sylvia Trengove

Int: Martin, Jetta, Jones. Sub: Bail

Emer: Tapscott (nearly snuck him in), Bate (pls dont play him), Warnock

The secret for us beating Sydney is to do 4 things.

1. Break even in the contested ball - hence why Jones gets a run. He, Moloney, Scully, Trengove and Jetta must get their hands on it.

2. Stop their run off half back - Maric, Jetta, Petterd, Dunn even Bennell or Bail if they go forward must play accountable footy as forwards

3. Minimise the influence of Goodes. Last year Morton went head to head and was even with him at 3/4 time. This year he's more likely to play at CHF and I think Garland gets him at CHB. An advantage of playing Warnock would be to free up Rivers for 3rd man up duties but I think Grimes and Macdonald have to take that role.

4. Move the ball quickly and isolate Green and Jurrah.

EDIT: Thought it wasn't so great having Bail as a sub due to the fact he's got a strong body and gun endurance. He may as well be out there from the start. Either Bennell or Petterd I'd look at for the sub. Possibly Bennell as the sub and start Petterd on the ground. Presuming Ricky isn't quiet 100% after missing a lot of footy he could come off and Bennell come on and be fresh for the second half playing forward/back or middle.

how much upside is left with bate? he`s had a few years now. green must play full forward all year. great mark , great kick and with 2-3 good years left in him he adds the class and experience needed to a young forward and is not keeping a young player out of their spot.

maric green jurrah

dunn watts pettard

the perfect mix

FB: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

HB: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

C: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

HF: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

FF: JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

R:JURRAH JURRAH JURRAH

this team would be the best team ever.

Also I'd go with Stef Martin over Spencer. That way he can go back if Sydney throw a ruckman forward. Let Jamar ruck 70% and play Martin the rest. Spencer is a much better tap ruckman than Martin but is just devoid of talent around the ground. Mumford would kill Spencer for footy smarts. We'd also be getting smashed in the clearances.

Ideally i want a ruckman who can ruck. Stef can't.

Spencer looks out of depth everywhere but i would have simple instructions for him all around the ground. Be aggressive and knock bump Mumford and nuetralise Mumford's aggressiveness and second efforts. Yes i know i could be setting up for giving away frees but that's how i'd play it.

i wouldnt midn seen martin on goodes......

I won't go for a full team list, but I'd like to see speed, speed and more speed on the park. That's what allowed us to destroy them last year, and while they have a few more quick players on hand this time we should still be able to run rings around them.

I'd love to see a 'Guts' line when the teams are released. LOL

Backs

Grimes, Rivers, Garland, MacDonald, Batram, and Bail.

Mids

Moloney, Jones, Davey, Scully, Sylvia, and Jamar.

Forwards

Jurrah, Green, Maric, Dunn, Watts, and Bennell.

Bench

Trengove, Jetta, and Martin.

Sub

Bate

The most talented player in the all lines has played less than 30 games - Grimes, Scully, and Watts.

Couldn't tell you how they will go week-to-week...

Bate as a sub is a strange one. It isn't tactical - I really believe you should play your in-form talent from the start and not for one quarter or a third of the game. I chose Bate as the 22nd-ish player picked keeping in mind that a ruckmen will not be a sub. Bate coming in sacrifices some run, but could have an impact in the forward line.

Otherwise, I am happy to give Bate a start and take Bennell out. Anyway, I tried to shape the team around more run as I can see our midfield as having their slow and lazy days this year.