THE TOM SCULLY TO GWS THREAD

[Roost It 1,434]

He already has by his manager saying he hasn't signed anything yet. Just move on.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Roost It

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Hard to indicate anything positive or negative comparing our issue with Geelong's similar issue last season. Geelong are a tough seasoned team who have dominated for the past four seasons. But it still hurt them greatly though not on the ladder. This year will tell what the residue damage might be. We are still in our nappies.

Edited February 17, 2011 by america de cali

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

But it still hurt them greatly though not on the ladder.

how then did it hurt them? Please don't tell me they would have won that prelim and then the flag if it wasn't for the Ablett situation

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Please refer to their off field issues.

[nutbean 8,838]

To answer why any imperative to sooner (much) rather than later:

I read Garry's article. It's very good. Healthy perspective.if only it was that straightforward..

There are a number of ways to look at this. Some will see varying relevance; some possibly none lol.

Today football is big business. Players are the ingredients in a complex recipe. You plan success upon the nurturing and realization of the various 'crops' year to year. Much effort , time and certainly not least, money is invested. The players are the fruit of all this.

One view, ripening fruit for your adversaries can't be looked upon as terribly clever.

Another:

You're an employer. Your staff / team members are your greatest asset. Would you knowingly upsikill someone if you were aware they were to defect to your competition? Be honest here, of course not. You put those resources behind someone who is going to give a return. Win/win

Whilst Garry, Dean , Jimma et all utter the 'good talk' of eyes on the ball and these things work out it's really a front. A front for denial.

Look at Geelong, they went completely off the boil last season. Yes some may attribute a little to two-face Thompson but without doubt it was the uncertainty surrounding Abblett. There team was even more cemented than ours is yet and still it gnawed away. Despite any efforts of club or players the media has it's bone and won't let it alone.

Do you seriously think this will die down just because those involved would like? No chance in he'll.

There's a great big elephant at the MFC and it needs to be addressed and sorted.

Were I a player I'd find it awkward . Does he want to stay or go. I have no issue should he go. It's his life. Take the money; no probs here.

I'm not going to blame him for any predicament he's in as it's the makings really of the AFL scurrilous loopholes.

Abject secrecy, from your team mates, friends, club etc is abhorrent.

Young Tom seems a fellow of outstanding character. I'm but asking him to show it. Show his cards. Play your own game not the leagues conceitful skullduggery .

The only way to truly make it go way is to dispense with it. Nullify it.

Then and only then can all get onwith things without looking over shoulders and second guessing.

I fully acknowledge the intent and sincerity behind the stiff upper chin approach but it's really just putting off today's dealings for tomorrows pain.

We all know what "contract negotiations at seasons end" really translates to.

You need to know where all stand.

Couldn't disagree more - WE the SUPPORTERS want to know now. I am no different - I want it resolved now. The club I am sure would like to know now.

There are several players unsigned at the moment that come out of contract at the end of this year and the reason we are getting up in arms about these others players is because of rumour and innuendo ( which could turn out to be correct) is not surrounding these players

A mature club would not rush head on into giving ultimatums and demanding alternative timetables purely to dispel rumours and make us feel better.

Look at the Watts example last year - there were mild nervous rumblings that he had not signed but certainly not the mass hysteria we are seeing now - why ? because the rumours of him being targeted were not circulating. Why was there not the demands for his contract to be resolved earlier last year ? Again - because we didnt think he was being targeted. Why didnt we call for him to be at Casey until his contract was signed - again - no pressure due to no rumours. In fact with the Davey and Green contract negotiations there were even less rumblings and there were counter offers on the table. We are being ruled by emotion not good business practice. Let negotiations take their natural course. I hope we have learned something from the Thompson handling of the Ablett situation - I think Geelong have and will handle Bartel situation a little differently. ( read the article in Hun earlier this week and Geelongs stance)

Realistically - what is the rush ? It is only that we want this agony to go away. Look that NRL equivalent - they have players that sign up with other clubs before seasons end. If these clubs are making a play for the finals - do they not play these players ? Of course they do and these players go at it just as hard. The notion that we are putting development into a player for someone is more than countered by the argument that the player whilst at our club will help us win games. The only argument that holds some water is that a player leaving is taking a spot of someone else we could be developing. If it is a choice of playing finals this year because Scully has a cracker of a year and will make such a difference as opposed to putting time into another player because Scully is leaving - I vote for finals

I again re-iterate to the club - negotiate as you would normally negotiate - do not be rushed into ultimatums because of media/supporter pressure. "put up or [censored] off" negotiation stances usually end unhappily.

[nutbean 8,838]

how then did it hurt them? Please don't tell me they would have won that prelim and then the flag if it wasn't for the Ablett situation

I will counter that they may not have won games last year and may not have made it as far as they did if it wasnt for Ablett.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I will counter that they may not have won games last year and may not have made it as far as they did if it wasnt for Ablett.

WHAT? we are discussing whether or not having a gun player 'in limbo' affects the club during the season. Obviously it had NO effect on their ability to win games so what negative effects are there to worry about? 'Off-field issues' ADC please do tell

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

WHAT? we are discussing whether or not having a gun player 'in limbo' affects the club during the season. Obviously it had NO effect on their ability to win games so what negative effects are there to worry about? 'Off-field issues' ADC please do tell

Work it out for yourself.

[Redleg 40,926]

I can see this thread going to 100 pages and 5000 posts.

[nutbean 8,838]

WHAT? we are discussing whether or not having a gun player 'in limbo' affects the club during the season. Obviously it had NO effect on their ability to win games so what negative effects are there to worry about? 'Off-field issues' ADC please do tell

The only negative effects is my ulcer developing, supporters having apoplexy and the media working themselves into a frenzy. The players dont play any differently and Ablett certainly didnt drop his bundle - the only one who did drop the bottom lip was Mark Thompson - and I think his end season burnout says a lot to his state of mind.

[rpfc 28,433]

To answer why any imperative to sooner (much) rather than later:

I read Garry's article. It's very good. Healthy perspective.if only it was that straightforward..

There are a number of ways to look at this. Some will see varying relevance; some possibly none lol.

Today football is big business. Players are the ingredients in a complex recipe. You plan success upon the nurturing and realization of the various 'crops' year to year. Much effort , time and certainly not least, money is invested. The players are the fruit of all this.

One view, ripening fruit for your adversaries can't be looked upon as terribly clever.

Another:

You're an employer. Your staff / team members are your greatest asset. Would you knowingly upsikill someone if you were aware they were to defect to your competition? Be honest here, of course not. You put those resources behind someone who is going to give a return. Win/win

Whilst Garry, Dean , Jimma et all utter the 'good talk' of eyes on the ball and these things work out it's really a front. A front for denial.

Look at Geelong, they went completely off the boil last season. Yes some may attribute a little to two-face Thompson but without doubt it was the uncertainty surrounding Abblett. There team was even more cemented than ours is yet and still it gnawed away. Despite any efforts of club or players the media has it's bone and won't let it alone.

Do you seriously think this will die down just because those involved would like? No chance in he'll.

There's a great big elephant at the MFC and it needs to be addressed and sorted.

Were I a player I'd find it awkward . Does he want to stay or go. I have no issue should he go. It's his life. Take the money; no probs here.

I'm not going to blame him for any predicament he's in as it's the makings really of the AFL scurrilous loopholes.

Abject secrecy, from your team mates, friends, club etc is abhorrent.

Young Tom seems a fellow of outstanding character. I'm but asking him to show it. Show his cards. Play your own game not the leagues conceitful skullduggery .

The only way to truly make it go way is to dispense with it. Nullify it.

Then and only then can all get onwith things without looking over shoulders and second guessing.

I fully acknowledge the intent and sincerity behind the stiff upper chin approach but it's really just putting off today's dealings for tomorrows pain.

We all know what "contract negotiations at seasons end" really translates to.

You need to know where all stand.

...so we seek an ultimatum?

I would love to know where we stand, but it isn't our right to know.

Let's be prudent and work through this like a confident club.

[Demonstone 22,534]

With this thread going around and around in ever-diminishing circles, it can only be a matter of time before it disappears up its own fundament.

For all those who are certain one way or the other, remember that wise people are full of doubt and see all shades of grey, while stupid people have no doubts and see things in black and white terms.

[beelzebub 23,376]

There's no Grey at Melbourne. Just Red and Blue.

GWS however embraces Grey!!!

Common sense dictates you only build longevity and securely on firm foundations. That comes from knowledge, not uncertainty or guesswork.

Wise men also know for every proverb a balancing one can be found

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

For all those who are certain one way or the other, remember that wise people are full of doubt and see all shades of grey, while stupid people have no doubts and see things in black and white terms.

If that is the case then wise people don't post here.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Work it out for yourself.

no, please, you have made a statement now justify it

[rpfc 28,433]

If that is the case then wise people don't post here.

We see grey, ADC.

You only see black where the colours haven't settled yet.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Then you must be wise and/or colour blind.

Edited February 17, 2011 by america de cali

[Matt Demon 1,442]

Had morning tea at aami park cafe today as I was working there for the day. Saw a few of the boys having something to eat. Scully and Rob Campbell were sitting away from everyone having what looked to be a serious talk. They were chatting for at least a half hour. Would love to be a fly on the wall.

[H_T 3,047]

I can see this thread going to 100 pages and 5000 posts.

Impossible. Apologies in advance but.....

If it's 100 pages it will be ~4000 posts or if it is 5000 posts it will be ~125 pages. Either way it's a mammoth thread.

But it's quite feasible on current form that ADC may contribute to nearly half of that.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Had morning tea at aami park cafe today as I was working there for the day. Saw a few of the boys having something to eat. Scully and Rob Campbell were sitting away from everyone having what looked to be a serious talk. They were chatting for at least a half hour. Would love to be a fly on the wall.

Thats actually quite interesting. Campbell despite newness to club is seen by club as a wise head, a mentor type for the younger ones.

Fly, wall.. Yes fascinating lol.

I see no need to rush to negotiations per se but what motive is there for the Scully camp not to open them or at least suggest "my intent is to pursue a career at Melbourne. Managent and the club will look at and hopefully agree to mutually beneficial conditions and remunerations as soon as able"

Nothing needs to be rushed into . Slams door on vultures. Everyone gets on with it all.

Or, we have what we have. Totally unecessary unless ulterior motives lurk.

[rpfc 28,433]

Then you must be wise and/or colour blind.

I can be whatever you want.

I just don't think you are interpreting the 'facts' correctly.

And I think that you don't show enough circumspection when discussing what should be done.

[rpfc 28,433]

Thats actually quite interesting. Campbell despite newness to club is seen by club as a wise head, a mentor type for the younger ones.

Fly, wall.. Yes fascinating lol.

I see no need to rush to negotiations per se but what motive is there for the Scully camp not to open them or at least suggest "my intent is to pursue a career at Melbourne. Managent and the club will look at and hopefully agree to mutually beneficial conditions and remunerations as soon as able"

Nothing needs to be rushed into . Slams door on vultures. Everyone gets on with it all.

Or, we have what we have. Totally unecessary unless ulterior motives lurk.

That's implied is it not?

He plays for us. He puts the jumper on and runs 25kms a game.

If we don't believe this view is held on all our players at face value, then we are in a terrible place.

If we ask that question then we are saying to our players - we don't believe you're serious about this club because you haven't committed your intent to be apart of our future in the press.

And do you really think that a statement other than a 're-signing' statement will quell the innuendo and pressure?

[jayceebee31 761]

Scully is much more valuable to us than Moloney or Petterd, for a start.

Arguably already a better player too (definitely in my opinion).

We do NOT have a surplus of elite mids.

We have a surplus of promising talented kids who could potentially play in the midfield.

Scully has in one season shown he belongs there as a general. You undersell him terribly.

We could get 2 x 1st round picks for him, sure.

They could end up being Jarrad Oakley-Nichols and James Sellar.

Or Daniel O'Keefe and Beau Dowler.

Or Marcus Drum and Adam Thomson.

Or John Meesen and Danny Meyer.

All 1st round picks.

Instead of Scully.

The last bolded part is incorrect.

It is irrelevant until the end of the season.

This is only an issue in the minds of frustrated and frenzied supporters.

Get over it.

Chances are we won't know until late in the season, at earliest, no matter how much hand-wringing you engage in.

Hard for me to say -but the above is a true, concise and accurate post..

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

I can be whatever you want.

I just don't think you are interpreting the 'facts' correctly.

And I think that you don't show enough circumspection when discussing what should be done.

You have the novel ability of seeing "facts" as grey.

[nutbean 8,838]

That's implied is it not?

He plays for us. He puts the jumper on and runs 25kms a game.

If we don't believe this view is held on all our players at face value, then we are in a terrible place.

If we ask that question then we are saying to our players - we don't believe you're serious about this club because you haven't committed your intent to be apart of our future in the press.

And do you really think that a statement other than a 're-signing' statement will quell the innuendo and pressure?

This whole issue really is " a disturbing conundrum" ( for the future, abbreviated to "ADC" )