David Hale

[MadAsHell 4,214]

Could be ok if a change of scenary is all that he needs to rejuvenate his career.

Not sure what I'd be prepared to give up for him though? Maybe a straigh swap for Warnock if the FD are convinced that Martin & McNamara can provide our cover if any of Frawley, Rivers or Garland were to go down injured.

[sylvinator 96]

Pick 134!

If we chase Hale, it will be the ultimate 'bandaid solution'. We want a 200cm forward who can do ruck relief. Yes Hale is technically that, but he's not a particularly good footballer.

This will be similar to recruiting Ben Holland for pick 20 or Paul Johnson for pick 30. Sure they are decent players who fill a void in the team, but they aren't great footballers so they don't take your team forward.

I'd be a bit disappointed if we went for Hale. Up til now our recruiting processes have been about getting top end talent at all costs- as many top draft picks as possible to give ourselves the best possible chance to achieve the ultimate success.

If we want a 200cm forward/ruck, we either need to use pick 12 (Lycett? Gorringe?) or go for a really good one that can take our team forward (Mitch Clarke? Dean Cox?)

Hale for me represented mediocrity and a removal from our current strategy which i've greatly respected.

[sylvinator 96]

And just to be clear, if we did get Hale, he might play a few decent games for us, and play a nice role in the team. But i'm sick of mediocrity, and band aid solutions. If we want to move forward into finals, top 4 and ultimately premiership, Hale is not the answer. The last 3 years we've had a really great vision of how to get the best talent from across Australia, I believe we should continue down that path and this would be a diversion.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

I've heard worse ideas. Hale, IMO, isn't as bad as some are making him out to be, and would be a better second ruckman for us in 2011 than anyone on our list at the moment. He would be the 2-3 year short term second ruck before Gawn and hopefully Fitzpatrick are ready to play AFL football.

However, he is not worth too much. In terms of draft picks, I wouldn't want to see anything earlier than a third round pick used on him. Given that the Gold Coast are also interested, I doubt we will be able to beat their offer (or at least we would be foolish to try).

[No16 1]

If we do not overpay for him, he will fill a gaping hole...

His career started going downhill when he was moved from ruckman/forward to a forward/ruckman...

Probably a split 50/50 role with Jamar in the ruck rather than the 20% he was doing at North with the emergence of Goldstein and co...

[sylvinator 96]

If we do not overpay for him, he will fill a gaping hole...

His career started going downhill when he was moved from ruckman/forward to a forward/ruckman...

Probably a split 50/50 role with Jamar in the ruck rather than the 20% he was doing at North with the emergence of Goldstein and co...

2 points

1. Considering we have the All Australian ruckman, who played 95% of game time in the ruck this year, do you now think they're going to change Jamar's role to 50% in the ruck. I would imagine, given Jamar's success, he would still ruck 80% of the time

2. Bailey has specifically said we are on the look out for a big forward. Hale is 200cm who plays predominantly forward. If we trade for Hale it is pretty clear we are doing it in the hope he'll be a big bodied forward.

conclusion: Hale's role will be as a forward/ruckman, not a 50/50 role with Jamar

[Mono 455]

If we do not overpay for him, he will fill a gaping hole...

Which will depend on how keen north are to move him on. He has 2 yrs (I think) of a contract left with them; will they pick up part of his payments?

then there's the trade. What do they want that we would supply? Not much in the way of players I would have thought.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Could be ok if a change of scenary is all that he needs to rejuvenate his career.

Not sure what I'd be prepared to give up for him though? Maybe a straigh swap for Warnock if the FD are convinced that Martin & McNamara can provide our cover if any of Frawley, Rivers or Garland were to go down injured.

No. I expect more for Warnock or we should keep him. Warna is a much better footballer than hale.

[DeeZee 7,445]

My Brother is a Kangaroos supporter, and reckons Paul Johnson is better than Hale,who he says constantly dissapoints,and hasnt played a decent game in 3 years.

[Hannabal 4]

This is from a North supporter on BF:

Okay few things we need to establish here:

It has been 3 Years since David Hale played predominantly as a ruckman. He has put on around 8kgs since then.

When he did play as a pure ruckman not a ruckman/forward, he was only 21-22 years of age (still developing)

He was our number 1 ruckman who always took the oppositions best ruckman, which results in his low average hitouts, not to mention he was still developing.

When he was playing as a forward we didn't exactly have a crash hot midfield, which results in his low goal averages and disposal counts. He didn't really have support in the forward line either.

I'm one of the first people to get on Hale's back once he has a [censored] game, but there are reasons why he has low numbers. He is definately worth a 2nd rounder, and i believe he if was a 2nd string ruckman to someone like Mark Jamar, he would honestly do very well. He is a shitload better than most 2nd string ruckman, and he would also have the ability to push forward on them and have an impact on the scoreboard. If you ask why he isn't in our side at the moment, you only have to see the ruck combo of Goldy and Macca to understand. He is good insurance for us in case one of them go down, but I doubt a 26 year old would want to be playing reserves all year when he knows he could be the 2nd ruck in almost any team in the competition. His value stands as an early 2nd rounder in this years draft. Possibly a first rounder based on where other ruckman like cameron would have gone in the past.

I'm probably a tad harsh on Hale. It can take ruckman years to show their worth as we know too well. He may be a decent understudy to Jamar, especially as both can go forward. Hale needs to ruck and he hasn't been doing that very much at all the last few years.

[MadAsHell 4,214]

No. I expect more for Warnock or we should keep him. Warna is a much better footballer than hale.

Fair enough to, it's difficult to get an idea of how much someone like Hale would cost given what is cabale of but rarely shows. Also ruckmen do seem to cost over traditionally.

If we were to trade a draft pick I wouldn't want to offer any higher then pick 49 personally.

[daisycutter 29,710]

If we can't find a reasonable draft/deal could we try Warnock as a resting fwd/relief ruck as a last resort? Its a bit left-wing but would it be worth a try?

Just throwing it out there (and ducking)

Edited September 26, 2010 by daisycutter

[Carn dees 108]

Im willing to give him a chance considering i didnt rate Leigh Brown at all.

And i think he could provide a tall target at full forward and he is capable of kicking bags, and also help out Jamar.

[Guest hangon007]

Which will depend on how keen north are to move him on. He has 2 yrs (I think) of a contract left with them; will they pick up part of his payments?

then there's the trade. What do they want that we would supply? Not much in the way of players I would have thought.

Some would argue Hale having a "2 year contract" weakens Norths position at the trade table if they want to move him on. Simply because it cuts down their options as North now need to find a trading partner who is willing to accommodate Hale inside their salary cap.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Fair enough to, it's difficult to get an idea of how much someone like Hale would cost given what is cabale of but rarely shows. Also ruckmen do seem to cost over traditionally.

If we were to trade a draft pick I wouldn't want to offer any higher then pick 49 personally.

I still reckon that Martin can do as well as Hale.

[1858 285]

I'm probably a tad harsh on Hale. It can take ruckman years to show their worth as we know too well. He may be a decent understudy to Jamar, especially as both can go forward. Hale needs to ruck and he hasn't been doing that very much at all the last few years.

You should trust your initial instinct on this one.

In my view, PJ's standard of rucking, marking and general aerial ability is so shocking that some of us have been spooked into the idea of taking on any old replacement. I get the feeling that the club's mindset is that incremental improvement (which is what Hale is at best) is good enough and personally I fear that our 2nd pick is on the table here.

The poster you quoted states that Hale only played ruck as a 21/22 yr old (and for some reason had to mention twice that he was still developing). That should ring alarm bells because at 26 (if the cliche stands) Hale should be coming into it as ruckmen apparently take time yet he's been over taken by a 22 yr old (who by the poster's logic is still developing).

Hale is slow, an ordinary tap ruckman for his height, extra weight doesn't seem to be a biproduct of extra strength and I see other comments about his ability that are none too complimentary regarding defensive pressure and agility. He's had quite some time to prove and improve on his rucking ability and as you put it so eloquently earlier he is a spud.

If we had both Hale and PJ on our list yes I would play Hale before PJ but there isn't much in it and what Hale may offer up forward (which IMO isn't that much) PJ at least makes up for in run and chase - both are spuds at the stopages or in the packs so if we give away our 2nd pick for him then North have done very well.

[Mono 455]

Some would argue Hale having a "2 year contract" weakens Norths position at the trade table if they want to move him on. Simply because it cuts down their options as North now need to find a trading partner who is willing to accommodate Hale inside their salary cap.

Which would put GC in box seat you'd have thought. And they have plenty of picks to trade.

[The O 39]

I'm probably a tad harsh on Hale. It can take ruckman years to show their worth as we know too well. He may be a decent understudy to Jamar, especially as both can go forward. Hale needs to ruck and he hasn't been doing that very much at all the last few years.

Hannabal I've slowly warmed to the idea of drafting Hale on a number of fronts:

• We've drafted 4 mids with our top 4 picks last year, with two young ruckman. We all know it traditionally takes ruckmen a number of years to develop (not saying Gawn or Spencer won't come on quicker), so why not get some cheap insurance.
  
• So assuming we have a minimum 3 picks this year, what position's/roles would we be looking at drafting. Maybe another running defender, maybe we strike it lucky and get the KPF we want as our 1st round pick (although a lot will depend on the GC needs).
  
• Hale needs an opportunity and we can offer it to him. He can play forward and has a desire to take a considerable ruck role, allowing the MFC to push Jamar forward where we know he can have a significant scoreboard influence.
  
• Hale is 26 (same age as Jamar), has the size and mobility for a modern day ruckman/forward.
  
• He's capable of taking a contested mark up forward, and his game will improve with better forward delivery.
  
• Drafting Hale could allow Martin to be developed as a full time backmen, rather than continuing to develop him as a part time forward.
  
• If Gawn, Fitzpatrick or Spencer's development progress quicker than expected, then we could potentially play 3 ruckmen in games with 2 operating out of the square, creating a nightmare for opposition teams.
  
• With comprimised drafts over the next 2 years, finding a draft gem is going to become tougher for all clubs.
  

Edited September 26, 2010 by The O

[rpfc 28,734]

No team is full of world beaters.

Role players are required. The FD would like a resting ruckman capable of taking some pressure off Jurrah and Watts, and give Jamar the occasional rest.

I think some of you want to fill the 22 with dead-set stars of the game. And it won't happen, and nor will you fit them under the cap.

He's younger than Jamar, he has proven himself to be a better goalkicker than Jamar, and he can pitch-hit in the ruck.

If the price is right, and Jesse White and Mitch Clark aren't available, why not?

[1858 285]

If the price is right, and Jesse White and Mitch Clark aren't available, why not?

Is our 2nd pick the right price?

[rpfc 28,734]

Is our 2nd pick the right price?

What will it be? About 29/30?

You'd have to ask Prendergast what talent he thinks will be there.

Otherwise, jettison a player and satisfy the Kangas through that in some way.

My thinking is that they will keep PJ if they cannot get Hale/Clark/White etc but he's off if we get one of them.

[e25 5]

I think our 2nd round pick at around 32 will be too much for Hale.

Depends on how much our footy dept thinks we need a bloke like him.

Stef Martin does just as good a job IMO.

[1858 285]

What will it be? About 29/30?

As it stands it is pick 32 but more importantly it is our 2nd pick so the next pick we have in the ND (notwithstanding other trades) would be hit and miss (probably miss) not to mention the fact that we may not even have room to use it - big factor here.

You'd have to ask Prendergast what talent he thinks will be there.

Otherwise, jettison a player and satisfy the Kangas through that in some way.

Personally I like your 2nd option. If we trade our 2nd pick we are looking at bringing in just 1 likely future prospect at a time when we still have a fair few question marks and this years draft is apparently not too bad for depth which is probably significant to perhaps the 30's at least (guessing a little here I admit).

My thinking is that they will keep PJ if they cannot get Hale/Clark/White etc but he's off if we get one of them.

Yep, for sure. Edited September 26, 2010 by 1858

[old55 23,687]

If Gawn, Fitzpatrick or Spencer's development progress quicker than expected, then we could potentially play 3 ruckmen in games with 2 operating out of the square, creating a nightmare for opposition teams.

That would be a nightmare alright.

[Kit Walker 225]

Stef Martin does just as good a job IMO.

Based on what?

I don't think Martin has shown anything as either a ruckman or a forward. He may have had a late start to his career, but he's 24 in November - not exactly a kid.