Trade Jamar

[Guest Thomo]

Draft picks for quality players can be overrated. I don't think Melbourne’s recent record is great.

Woewodin for Bell - Bad swap for the Dees

Scott Thompson Moloney - Not bad, but not as good as keeping the original player (didn't have a choice, but an example of what we got for a quality player)

Jolly for Dunn - Bad swap for the Dees, Dunn may end up ok, but aside from the last few months has been poor for 5 years

Johnston for Jack Grimes - Too early to tell, looks quality, but injury prone and may not make it

McLean for Gysberts - Too early to tell

The risk with trading a quality player for a draft pick, is that more often than not the draft pick will not make it. Even with a first round, Melbourne has seen in the past that things can go wrong with injuries, and we get little return.

[Carn dees 108]

Draft picks for quality players can be overrated. I don't think Melbourne’s recent record is great.

Johnston for Jack Grimes - Too early to tell, looks quality, but injury prone and may not make it

McLean for Gysberts - Too early to tell

The risk with trading a quality player for a draft pick, is that more often than not the draft pick will not make it. Even with a first round, Melbourne has seen in the past that things can go wrong with injuries, and we get little return.

Jack Grimes could break his leg tomorrow and id still be happy with this trade.

And although it is too early to call i am reasonably happy with the Gysberts trade although ive always been a big fan of Broc.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Draft picks for quality players can be overrated. I don't think Melbourne's recent record is great.

Woewodin for Bell - Bad swap for the Dees

Scott Thompson Moloney - Not bad, but not as good as keeping the original player (didn't have a choice, but an example of what we got for a quality player)

Jolly for Dunn - Bad swap for the Dees, Dunn may end up ok, but aside from the last few months has been poor for 5 years

Johnston for Jack Grimes - Too early to tell, looks quality, but injury prone and may not make it

McLean for Gysberts - Too early to tell

The risk with trading a quality player for a draft pick, is that more often than not the draft pick will not make it. Even with a first round, Melbourne has seen in the past that things can go wrong with injuries, and we get little return.

Very simplistic assessment.

I would say that at this stage we are looking at finishing well ahead on the last two.

That being said Jamar is the player we could least afford to trade.

Edited September 1, 2010 by dandeeman

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Draft picks for quality players can be overrated. I don't think Melbourne’s recent record is great.

Woewodin for Bell - Bad swap for the Dees

Scott Thompson Moloney - Not bad, but not as good as keeping the original player (didn't have a choice, but an example of what we got for a quality player)

Jolly for Dunn - Bad swap for the Dees, Dunn may end up ok, but aside from the last few months has been poor for 5 years

Johnston for Jack Grimes - Too early to tell, looks quality, but injury prone and may not make it

McLean for Gysberts - Too early to tell

The risk with trading a quality player for a draft pick, is that more often than not the draft pick will not make it. Even with a first round, Melbourne has seen in the past that things can go wrong with injuries, and we get little return.

As another poster said its simplistic.

None of the above players were a swap.

There are two parts here:

1. The decision to trade a player

2. What we do with the pick

In each case when we traded MFC did the right thing given the circumstances at hanrd whether it be getting value for a contracted player at the time or trade an OOC player.

In regard to the trade and draft scenarios you put forward:

Woewodin for Bell - Good trade but bad pick

Scott Thompson Moloney - Unavoidable trade, fair pick

Jolly for Dunn - Unavoidable trade, pick to still to prove itself

Johnston for Jack Grimes - Overdue trade on a declining player, Great pick. Already a win.

McLean for Gysberts - Outstanding Trade, Very good pick so far

[Guest Thomo]

If Jack Grimes injuries continue at the rate they have, the trade will have failed. Johnston has proven his best was behind him, but Jack has missed two thirds of games so far. Melbourne will not be able to carry a player like that going forward, and he will be looking for another career.

And way to early to say that you are happy with the Gysberts trade, he has played 3 games, and Mclean is still young.

The point is, people assume that we are going to get a great player with a first round draft pick. Fact is it rarely happens.

[buddha82 12]

Dumbest thread ever.

Ashamed that it came from a fellow Gooner.

I hope for your sake this was a joke thread designed to elicit this type of response.

[Guest Thomo]

As another poster said its simplistic.

None of the above players were a swap.

There are two parts here:

1. The decision to trade a player

2. What we do with the pick

In each case when we traded MFC did the right thing given the circumstances at hanrd whether it be getting value for a contracted player at the time or trade an OOC player.

In regard to the trade and draft scenarios you put forward:

Woewodin for Bell - Good trade but bad pick

Scott Thompson Moloney - Unavoidable trade, fair pick

Jolly for Dunn - Unavoidable trade, pick to still to prove itself

Johnston for Jack Grimes - Overdue trade on a declining player, Great pick. Already a win.

McLean for Gysberts - Outstanding Trade, Very good pick so far

My point was not about the reason for trade, it was that there is the assumption that if we trade Jamar that we will get a great player with the pick, and I think that most would agree that in the past this has not often been the case.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If Jack Grimes injuries continue at the rate they have, the trade will have failed. Johnston has proven his best was behind him, but Jack has missed two thirds of games so far. Melbourne will not be able to carry a player like that going forward, and he will be looking for another career.

And way to early to say that you are happy with the Gysberts trade, he has played 3 games, and Mclean is still young.

The point is, people assume that we are going to get a great player with a first round draft pick. Fact is it rarely happens.

Both Grimes injuries are unrelated. He is over the back injury. And the most recent injury was a contact injury. He has done more on the field and off the field than TJ has down at Brisbane. How could it have been a fail if the option was holding onto a lazy declining footballer?? The TJ/ Grimes scenario is already a win.

With McLean we have offloaded a slow one paced midfielder with only reasonable skills by hand or foot. And McLean is young. But isnt he injury prone??? You have seven year track record to go on. How many games has he missed and how many did he play that so many people were sure he was carrying an injury? But he is young. So is Grimes??? It is early for Gysberts but given his first couple of games his performance in his RS game was better than any game we got from Brock over the previous 3 years.

McLean was not part of the bigger picture at MFC. I could not see how we could play Beamer, Jones and McLean without having Usain Bolt to offset the lack of leg speed. He was surplus to our requirements. He might be a good pick up for Carlton. But he wont be running around the Northern Bullants. Ask any Carlton supporter how they feel about it?

The point is you need to consider what you gave up for the draft pick and why and what you do with it.

[Guest Thomo]

Both Grimes injuries are unrelated. He is over the back injury. And the most recent injury was a contact injury. He has done more on the field and off the field than TJ has down at Brisbane. How could it have been a fail if the option was holding onto a lazy declining footballer?? The TJ/ Grimes scenario is already a win.

With McLean we have offloaded a slow one paced midfielder with only reasonable skills by hand or foot. And McLean is young. But isnt he injury prone??? You have seven year track record to go on. How many games has he missed and how many did he play that so many people were sure he was carrying an injury? But he is young. So is Grimes??? It is early for Gysberts but given his first couple of games his performance in his RS game was better than any game we got from Brock over the previous 3 years.

McLean was not part of the bigger picture at MFC. I could not see how we could play Beamer, Jones and McLean without having Usain Bolt to offset the lack of leg speed. He was surplus to our requirements. He might be a good pick up for Carlton. But he wont be running around the Northern Bullants. Ask any Carlton supporter how they feel about it?

The point is you need to consider what you gave up for the draft pick and why and what you do with it.

Again, totally missed my point.

[Don24 103]

Once again majority of Demonland posters show how inept they are at being able to objectively have a football discussion. Sometimes I wonder what the point of this forum is?

The prospect of trading Jamar is a very valid discussion to have. Obviously the price would need to be right. What if Gold Coast said we need a ready made ruckman and offer pick 5? No one is talking about trading him away for nothing! His name would come up because of his age and high value combined with the question over whether he will be around when we are contending for premiership.

The fact that no one can even comprehend or think rationally about this as even an option shows how idiot the people on this forum are. I dont think he will be traded, and unless a great deal is offered I dont think he should, but he, along with a lot of other players should at least be discussed.

I raised the idea of trading Brock McLean early last season and was abused and ridiculed in this exact same way as this poster has been.... "worst post of the year" ect ect and then we traded him and everyone is full of praise and pride at what we got out of that trade. Yet no one learns....sad really...

[demon bazza 14]

Oh dear Gooner I have just come on site and read your post and am still trying to get my mind around it. Why? oh Why?

Thanks be to God that you are not a part of the footy department because if you were we would be sitting in the bottom four of the ladder every year, perhaps you like the idea and the pain but I surely don't.

[Rogue 585]

Even if Jamar won't be around when we're having a crack at a flag - and this is debatable - we're not going to be helped if we get smashed every week in the ruck, as Jaded has said.

Look at who else we have in the ruck...

[H_T 3,036]

Once again majority of Demonland posters show how inept they are at being able to objectively have a football discussion. Sometimes I wonder what the point of this forum is?

The prospect of trading Jamar is a very valid discussion to have. Obviously the price would need to be right. What if Gold Coast said we need a ready made ruckman and offer pick 5? No one is talking about trading him away for nothing! His name would come up because of his age and high value combined with the question over whether he will be around when we are contending for premiership.

The fact that no one can even comprehend or think rationally about this as even an option shows how idiot the people on this forum are. I dont think he will be traded, and unless a great deal is offered I dont think he should, but he, along with a lot of other players should at least be discussed.

I raised the idea of trading Brock McLean early last season and was abused and ridiculed in this exact same way as this poster has been.... "worst post of the year" ect ect and then we traded him and everyone is full of praise and pride at what we got out of that trade. Yet no one learns....sad really...

Ok objectively speaking Don24; and somewhat makingthe discussion valid. Let's think rationally about this for a second. Say you were prepared (even though you think Jamar won't be traded) to trade Jamar at the right price (ie. pick 5 for arguments sake) - where does that leave our ruck department ? And would you pick up another ruck to replace Jamar (ie. down grade) with another trade/pick ? Or would you gamble and roll the dice on our thin ruck stocks in PJ & Spencer for the next 2-3 years and the ability to compete, before 'hopefully' Gawn or Fitzpatrick maybe blossom ? Seriously, think about it.

[e25 5]

Even if Jamar won't be around when we're having a crack at a flag - and this is debatable - we're not going to be helped if we get smashed every week in the ruck, as Jaded has said.

Look at who else we have in the ruck...

Precisely.

We're facing the prospect of having to keep PJ because without him we may not have enough depth in the ruck dept.

Paul Johnson! Dear god...

[Don24 103]

Ok objectively speaking Don24; and somewhat makingthe discussion valid. Let's think rationally about this for a second. Say you were prepared (even though you think Jamar won't be traded) to trade Jamar at the right price (ie. pick 5 for arguments sake) - where does that leave our ruck department ? And would you pick up another ruck to replace Jamar (ie. down grade) with another trade/pick ? Or would you gamble and roll the dice on our thin ruck stocks in PJ & Spencer for the next 2-3 years and the ability to compete, before 'hopefully' Gawn or Fitzpatrick maybe blossom ? Seriously, think about it.

You may have missed in my earlier post where I said the problem with the trade is that we have a mass shortage of rucking stocks.

The only way we could get away with trading him was if We added another ruckman, OR the Football department had the belief that Fitzpatrick or Spencer were capable of holding down a regular spot and sharing the load with PJ. Even still it would leave us very vulnerable to injuries.

Would be nice if we had a few handy rucks running around and we could afford to trade him.

[Little Goffy 14,115]

Yeah, ahh... no.

We're not talking about Josh Fraser here.

We're talking about a guy with a powerful frame, first class ruck skills, the ability to take pack marks, a great work ethic and attack on the ball, all packaged with a mature attitude to continuous improvement and has started to show real presence as a leader. Wouldn't surprise me if he was in next year's leadership group.

He has also played relatively few seasons as a first ruck and isn't carrying a great deal of wear and tear, and is not at all old for a 'developed' ruckman.

Can't be far off the most valuable player on our list right now and the gap to our next best ruck option is considerable. Playing kids like Gawn and Fitzpatrick for long stints in the ruck at this age would see them be 'unavailable' for our 'premiership run' in much quicker time than Jamars career, which could well have five years to go.

Trading Jamar, even for a very good draft pick or two, would be an appalling piece of list management, not to mention a slap in the face after all our 'Demon loyalty' talk.

Also, I have a big ol' man-crush on the Russian because I'm so happy that he came good after all the years of belief I invested in him.

[digby wolf 1]

Something that I've been considering for some time is whether we should trade Jamar.

He's been great for us this season and will be useful in developing the other rucks, however, his value is at it's peak following his inclusion in the All Australian team.

He's my argument for trading him:

- he could be worth a first round draft pick (Jolly went for pick 14 and 46 when he was 27)

- he's 27 and will start going down hill in the next couple of years

- he's just played his best season

- this is the first season in which he's played 22 games, he played 21 games in 2006, but other than that, his previous best was 14 games in 2008

- he's an All Australian player and that will inflate his value significantly (Burgoyne was worth picks 8 & 9 despite his only All Australian appearance being in 2006, three years before he was traded)

- we could recruit another young player or two with a high draft pick who will develop alongside Scully, Trengove, Watts & co.

Who would want him?

- Hawthorn?

- Bulldogs?

- Adelaide (pick 14)?

- Port (pick 16)?

- Gold Coast?

- Carlton (pick 18)?

It's difficult to see who would pick him up, although I'm sure that things will become a lot clearer once the Gold Coast enters trade week and other teams get some of their picks in exchange for their players.

Typical Gooner. Trade Jamar ! Bit to much happiness with your warm gun I expect.

Edited September 1, 2010 by kerrydixon

[titan_uranus 24,857]

I raised the idea of trading Brock McLean early last season and was abused and ridiculed in this exact same way as this poster has been.... "worst post of the year" ect ect and then we traded him and everyone is full of praise and pride at what we got out of that trade. Yet no one learns....sad really...

But McLean is a midfielder, and we had midfielders to replace him with.

Jamar is a ruckman. We don't have another one (at least not a decent one). Therein lies both the difference between this situation and yours, and the problem with this idea. We'd do ourselves so much harm the pick we'd get for him would be nothing.

[Red&BlueBlood 61]

Lets trade Jamar for Brent Harvey... what - he has a good verticle leap HAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Once again majority of Demonland posters show how inept they are at being able to objectively have a football discussion. Sometimes I wonder what the point of this forum is?

I am glad these other posters had the good sense to realise the consequence of having Jamar off the list at this point in time. Its ridiculous. Its obviously does not make sense for the very reasons you muddled around to. I dont know why you feel you are on a higher plain.

I raised the idea of trading Brock McLean early last season and was abused and ridiculed in this exact same way as this poster has been.... "worst post of the year" ect ect and then we traded him and everyone is full of praise and pride at what we got out of that trade. Yet no one learns....sad really...

You werent the only one considering that option at the time. There were a number of posters that raised it. And the option had some merit despite the McLean fans being up in arms. McLean was a struggling MOR midfielder who attributes were not going to be critical to MFC going forward. Jamar is a completely different situation indeed.

[jnrmac 19,928]

Didn't we do that with Jolly and Simmonds a few years back?? We develop ruckmen and then let others get the best out of them. Not such a good idea.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Didn't we do that with Jolly and Simmonds a few years back?? We develop ruckmen and then let others get the best out of them. Not such a good idea.

No. Different circumstances.

[Don24 103]

I am glad these other posters had the good sense to realise the consequence of having Jamar off the list at this point in time. Its ridiculous. Its obviously does not make sense for the very reasons you muddled around to. I dont know why you feel you are on a higher plain.

You werent the only one considering that option at the time. There were a number of posters that raised it. And the option had some merit despite the McLean fans being up in arms. McLean was a struggling MOR midfielder who attributes were not going to be critical to MFC going forward. Jamar is a completely different situation indeed.

Rhino, you obviously dont get it. I am not frustrated over peoples lack of desire to trade Jamar, as you said, the 'very reasons i muddled around to' support that view. WHat does frustrate me though is the masses on here who refuse to even contemplate the matter and ridicule someone for raising an interesting point. No player is untouchable and it is very healthy to discuss all options. This forum is not capable of such thinking and it is why this forum is so useless and repetitive. Jamar is not out of bounds, but out of date people like yourself seem to support the view that if the opinion doesnt support yours or is a little left of centre the person should be ridiculed.

In regards to Brock, you are not correct. I started the topic suggesting he be traded, very early on, and was ridiculed by 80% of people in the exact same style as this thread, yet now that the deal is a clear winner....apparently we were all on the same page? Outrageous.

[gsmith12 491]

Something that I've been considering for some time is whether we should trade Jamar.

He's been great for us this season and will be useful in developing the other rucks, however, his value is at it's peak following his inclusion in the All Australian team.

He's my argument for trading him:

- he could be worth a first round draft pick (Jolly went for pick 14 and 46 when he was 27)

- he's 27 and will start going down hill in the next couple of years

- he's just played his best season

- this is the first season in which he's played 22 games, he played 21 games in 2006, but other than that, his previous best was 14 games in 2008

- he's an All Australian player and that will inflate his value significantly (Burgoyne was worth picks 8 & 9 despite his only All Australian appearance being in 2006, three years before he was traded)

- we could recruit another young player or two with a high draft pick who will develop alongside Scully, Trengove, Watts & co.

Who would want him?

- Hawthorn?

- Bulldogs?

- Adelaide (pick 14)?

- Port (pick 16)?

- Gold Coast?

- Carlton (pick 18)?

It's difficult to see who would pick him up, although I'm sure that things will become a lot clearer once the Gold Coast enters trade week and other teams get some of their picks in exchange for their players.

Best ruckman since Stynes and you want to trade him ?

Complete muppet.

[Dr. Mubutu 784]

Best ruckman since Stynes and you want to trade him ?

Complete muppet.

No disrespect to the Russian, but Jeff White says hi.