finding a rebounding defender

[Back Flanker 2]

Watching our solid performance against the filth on Monday, I noticed how we don't have an answer to players like Heath Shaw and Harry O'Brien. I know they both had quiet days against the Demons, but their ability to draw a foward tag in their backline definately weakens opposition attacks. If you look at the top teams at the moment in Geelong & St Kilda, most of their attacking moves are setup by very reliable defenders attacking out of half back. Goddard, Fisher, Gram.. Scarlett, Mackie, Enright.. Gilbee, Harbrow, etc.

I'm a big fan of the improving Garland, but does he have the pace and aggression to play this role? Likewise with Morton.. Huge potential but I just can't see him brushing aside tackles and being physical enough. Grimes is obvious but he is being talked about as a midfielder, so are we looking to develop some attacking defenders? We currenly have Joel MacDonald & Cheney playing great footy in the magoo's and they seem the most likely fits. Throw in Strauss.. Are these blokes a potenial premiership half-back line?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Grimes, Frawley and Garland...how many do you want?

FWIW, I thought Shaw was quiet for the day. If I remember correctly we had Dunn draw him from the play.

[armstrong35 262]

i loved it when matthew warnock marked the ball and ran off the back line down the wing,i dont know if anyone else can remember it but it was gold!!

set up a goal too...

Edited June 15, 2010 by armstrong35

[dee-luded 2,959]

i loved it when matthew warnock marked the ball and ran off the back like down the wing,i dont know if anyone else can remember it but it was gold!!

set up a goal too...

Yep, he took IT ON, and ran the ball upfield & I think kicked inside 50, Setting the Tone.

[jayceebee31 697]

Grimes, Frawley and Garland...how many do you want?

FWIW, I thought Shaw was quiet for the day. If I remember correctly we had Dunn draw him from the play.

Re Shaw- you are correct re Dunn- a great coaching move as well.

[Back Flanker 2]

Grimes, Frawley and Garland...how many do you want?

FWIW, I thought Shaw was quiet for the day. If I remember correctly we had Dunn draw him from the play.

As I mentioned (or maybe you didn't read properly) Grimes is being groomed as a midfielder. Frawley is full-back so hardly the running half-back type, and Garland lacks pace. So I was asking for other suggestions..

And as for Shaw, yes Dunn was used (successfully) to draw him from the play, but also as I mentioned, this weakened our attack. He went from kicking 8 goals at Casey to being a spectator to keep Shaw out of the action

Edited June 15, 2010 by Back Flanker

[Matt Demon 1,407]

James Strauss will step into this roll as time goes on

[Nasher 33,607]

As I mentioned (or maybe you didn't read properly) Grimes is being groomed as a midfielder. Frawley is full-back so hardly the running half-back type, and Garland lacks pace. So I was asking for other suggestions..

You've got three things wrong.

1 - Frawley provides heaps of drive out of defence. He's in the Matty Scarlett mould. Warnock is the 'gorilla' we play who is primarily defensive.

2 - Garland lacks pace? No, no he does not. He's probably the quickest of everyone down there.

3 - I doubt Sean Wellman will be letting Grimes out of his clutches. He's been playing the Hodge role down there. He's made that position his own, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's how he plays out his career. So I'm not convinced that a move to the midfield is inevitable, despite what anyone says.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You've got three things wrong.

1 - Frawley provides heaps of drive out of defence. He's in the Matty Scarlett mould. Warnock is the 'gorilla' we play who is primarily defensive.

2 - Garland lacks pace? No, no he does not. He's probably the quickest of everyone down there.

3 - I doubt Sean Wellman will be letting Grimes out of his clutches. He's been playing the Hodge role down there. He's made that position his own, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's how he plays out his career. So I'm not convinced that a move to the midfield is inevitable, despite what anyone says.

Thought the same.

Hang on Nasher.. Grimes was recruited as a midfielder..

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

As I mentioned (or maybe you didn't read properly) Grimes is being groomed as a midfielder. Frawley is full-back so hardly the running half-back type, and Garland lacks pace. So I was asking for other suggestions..

I did read properly but you got it wrong on all three players.

And as for Shaw, yes Dunn was used (successfully) to draw him from the play, but also as I mentioned, this weakened our attack. He went from kicking 8 goals at Casey to being a spectator to keep Shaw out of the action

Dunn mounted his greatest achievement to date. Keeping an attacking player like Shaw out of the action. And that was more valuable to the team than any cameo in the VFL. If anything our attack was better having Shaw nullified. Think about it.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

James Strauss will step into this roll as time goes on

Agree, Strauss will be given this role in time and will do it extremely well.

[Jaded No More 67,629]

3 - I doubt Sean Wellman will be letting Grimes out of his clutches. He's been playing the Hodge role down there. He's made that position his own, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's how he plays out his career. So I'm not convinced that a move to the midfield is inevitable, despite what anyone says.

Hard to disagree with that, but I do hope that Strauss takes over from Grimes in the coming years, which will allow Grimes to move into the midfield.

This gives us two advantages, one being Strauss' sublime footskills (Grimes is good, but Strauss is something else), and the other is of course having all the goodness that is Grimes running around with Scully, Trengove, McKenzie, Gysberts, Blease, Morton and so forth. Mouthwatering stuff!

[volders 22]

Dunn mounted his greatest achievement to date. Keeping an attacking player like Shaw out of the action. And that was more valuable to the team than any cameo in the VFL. If anything our attack was better having Shaw nullified. Think about it.

Shaw was gone to the world in the first half, however Dunn didn't have a stat after halftime and shaw was decent.

Edited June 15, 2010 by volders

[e25 5]

I'd actually like to see how Grimes fares in the forward line.

I don't think it's beyond him.

[Swampfox 190]

Grimes owns the half back flank at Melbourne and i am starting to think maybe its his best position

Going Forward 2 - 3 years he just might stay there

As the list changes and i have no doubt it will its hard to predict but i very much doubt Grimes will play as a forward

We seem to have an abundance of talented midfielders and who knows what young Viney can become if we get him as a father/son pick

[sylvinator 96]

Grimes owns the half back flank at Melbourne and i am starting to think maybe its his best position

Going Forward 2 - 3 years he just might stay there

As the list changes and i have no doubt it will its hard to predict but i very much doubt Grimes will play as a forward

We seem to have an abundance of talented midfielders and who knows what young Viney can become if we get him as a father/son pick

The awesome thing about Grimes, is that he is actually awesome defensively. He always gets a punch in, lays the tackle. He also provides great drive! However, his best position is probably midfield, purely because he has always been a midfielder and it is probably the position he will make the most impact.

He is such an incredible young player, I have such a man crush. Honestly, he is one of the best young players i've ever seen come through the demons (admittedly, i'm 23 years old).

I forsee the rebounders from defence in 2 years time being

1. Grimes (hoping others come through, so we can move him to midfield)

2. Strauss

Clearly, we need to look to stock up more on this area. There is a reason why Bruce is being played at half back. it's because we have few options.

Defensive small defenders, who provide less rebound

1. Bartram

2. Cheney

3. Garland (able to play on small forwards)

It's pretty thin, we definitely should be looking for more small rebounding defenders. A lot is dependant on Strauss becoming a gun, putting a lot of pressure on him

[BLWNBA 732]

I'd have to say the money is on Grimes. Fantastic at what he does, and I really see him becoming our version of Hodge. Great link up player out of the back line. For what it's worth I could also see Bennell fulfilling this role as well, could provide some great drive out of defence, yet the issue with that is he is also a great goal sneak up forward.

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

our whole defense was running forwards, morton and garland made space and both kicked goals

frawley was in the 50 at one stage when aaron davey had his set shot calling for the ball, and was often rebounding out of defense

warnock did it several times, when he was on the wing breaking tackles most notably

grimes does it always, seen when he missed neville jetta with that one poor disposal

bartram does it too

i think its more our style of play to have those running defenders

strauss will do the job too, if you watch vic metro highlights video, rebounds out of defense to hit watts on the lead, amazing!

[Red Sox 2]

Garland and Frawley will be everything and more that O'Brien and Shaw are...just as much pace (really O'Brien and Shaw are NOT that quick, just find open space to run into, especially at Collingwood because they use the flanks).

Frawley is not a full back and Garland is no where near slow?? Sorry mate but what are you watching??

Frawley is as quick as any of the best defenders - goes from playing on John Brown, Jack Riewoldt to Stevie J, killing Medhurst...come on!!

Garland is a star - his confidence is returning by the minute from what we all saw in 2008...he is a ripper and very quick, a good user of the ball and gives his opponent little more than an inch in every contest.

Grimes - will stay exactly where he is - Half Back is Defacto midfield role in current football anyhow. He leaves his man to take marks, takes risk at nearly every opportunity (yes sometimes he can turn it over, once a game really no big deal - this happens when you control the play from time to time)...Grimes will be THE BEST half back in the game!!

Strauss is also another option/replacement/cover for the Grimes role - enough quality in the middle to allow us to continue with these two.

[e25 5]

I don't think Grimes is at all suited to setting up ahead of the ball, but I'd still like to

see how he fares.

[Guest DeesPower]

Watching our solid performance against the filth on Monday, I noticed how we don't have an answer to players like Heath Shaw and Harry O'Brien. I know they both had quiet days against the Demons, but their ability to draw a foward tag in their backline definately weakens opposition attacks. If you look at the top teams at the moment in Geelong & St Kilda, most of their attacking moves are setup by very reliable defenders attacking out of half back. Goddard, Fisher, Gram.. Scarlett, Mackie, Enright.. Gilbee, Harbrow, etc.

I'm a big fan of the improving Garland, but does he have the pace and aggression to play this role? Likewise with Morton.. Huge potential but I just can't see him brushing aside tackles and being physical enough. Grimes is obvious but he is being talked about as a midfielder, so are we looking to develop some attacking defenders? We currenly have Joel MacDonald & Cheney playing great footy in the magoo's and they seem the most likely fits. Throw in Strauss.. Are these blokes a potenial premiership half-back line?

The way Joel McD played at Casey last weekend including two very good running goals would indicate that he has at least potential in this area. Cheney is a totally different player, and does not have the speed of say an O'Brien who I think is exceptional as a breaking the lines running back. The closest we have is Morton who was terrific on Monday but as far as I can see was mostly l playing an elusive mid field role rather than a loose tag on a forward as O'Brien plays . Bruce is supposed to be playing this role but has lost a yard of pace and his kicking has deteriorated so is not as explosive as he used to be, althoughi am very much a fan of his and think some of the criticism of him on this site boarders on the obsessive.

I personally think Bruce at this stage of his career is best suited to the run-with tagger role in the mid field because one thing he is famous for quite rightly is his incredible engine. Like James Macd he has tremendous stamina and added to his considerable skill levels that can be used very effectively as a mid field tagger.

Edited June 16, 2010 by DeesPower

[Jaded No More 67,629]

I'd actually like to see how Grimes fares in the forward line.

I don't think it's beyond him.

I want to see him helping Jamar in the ruck.

Grimes is Superman, let's be honest here, there is nothing he cannot do

[titan_uranus 24,578]

Rubbish thread.

Every single one of our defenders has no fear in pushing up the ground. Warnock did it at least twice on the weekend, and has done it plenty of times over the year. Same goes for Rivers.

At one stage Frawley had presented an option inside our 50 (and maybe should have been passed the ball). He gives us regular run.

And then we have Garland, Bruce and Grimes providing regular run off half back.

And in the reserves MacDonald, Cheney, Strauss and McNamara wait their turn.

Possibly the last area of the team we need to look at.

[deeflog 679]

I'd actually like to see how Grimes fares in the forward line.

I don't think it's beyond him.

i thought we only had one jack grimes?

when did the cloning process happen?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Are these blokes a potenial premiership half-back line?

Absolutely. The concern is not can they rebound (which they can, by the way)... it's can they change gear week to week depending on opposition, and quarter to quarter depending on what's suitable for the weather and oppositions' tactics. In other words, if the leadership is sound, they can direct the Frawleys and Garlands to adapt quickly. Hell, if they can change gear from play to play that would be the best. Frawley is pretty spectacular at this. You see him one-on-one and just hope he can make it a fifty/fifty and bring the ball to ground. He does so, you close your eyes and sigh... and by the time you've opened them he's ten metres off his man and delivering the ball 50 metres down the ground.