Bailey or Lyon

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Are you suggesting that Lyon would take this squad to a flag in the space that Bailey has left on his contract?

Again, speculation as to who should coach this team is premature in the extreme. However and accepting our youth and inexperience, how long does anybody believe it to be acceptable to have a win/loss record of 18%? Another 2 years, maybe 3, why don't we say 5?

Let's get real here.

[H_T 3,047]

It is patently obvious about the lack of experience and youth of our team, but we are not unique and we compete in the same market as the Kangaroos of this world, who gave their supporters a lot more to hang on to than our lot did.

The Kangaroos playing list is a little more advanced in terms of development and games of experience compared to our team yesterday.

That doesn't excuse the poor performance at all, just thought I'd point that out.

Let's give some credit to Freo's pressure which created alot of forced and unforced errors which can be improved on.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The Kangaroos playing list is a little more advanced in terms of development and games of experience compared to our team yesterday.

That doesn't excuse the poor performance at all, just thought I'd point that out.

Let's give some credit to Freo's pressure which created alot of forced and unforced errors which can be improved on.

Thanks HT, point taken, but I just feel we are using our youth as a crutch, when we should be forging forward. I think the tendency to see our situation as unique, gives rise to making excuses for sub-par performances. If the group's collective confidence continues to be shattered, the damage done has the potential to go right through the entire club.

Edited February 21, 2010 by iv'a worn smith

[Still Waiting 94]

Gee there are a lot of posters on here that seemingly would be happy for us to have another "unimproved" lowly year in the AFL. "Harden up" those of you who keep making excuses.

If it aint working, change it or fix it !!!!!

Bit sad really, I want SUCCESS, no excuses anymore. It just HAS to get better - sooner not later.

[Keyser Söze 0]

Gee there are a lot of posters on here that seemingly would be happy for us to have another "unimproved" lowly year in the AFL. "Harden up" those of you who keep making excuses.

If it aint working, change it or fix it !!!!!

Bit sad really, I want SUCCESS, no excuses anymore. It just HAS to get better - sooner not later.

It seems people with your attitude want improvement from the club with no concept of where this improvement will come from.

You're looking at the bottom line, but you need to look into the finer detail and see that, in spite of what you WANT, some things just aren't exactly possible or reasonable at this stage.

Sure, over the course of a season, the team should show improvement in a number of areas, and if they don't something needs to change.

But we can't expect the team to burst out of the gates and win the first 6 games convincingly. It just won't happen.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

It seems people with your attitude want improvement from the club with no concept of where this improvement will come from.

You're looking at the bottom line, but you need to look into the finer detail and see that, in spite of what you WANT, some things just aren't exactly possible or reasonable at this stage.

Sure, over the course of a season, the team should show improvement in a number of areas, and if they don't something needs to change.

But we can't expect the team to burst out of the gates and win the first 6 games convincingly. It just won't happen.

No question about that, but if you want to "compete" in this cut throat and unforgiving market, you need to show more. Like I said, the longer we keep thinking we are somehow unique, the more likely we will fail. 2010 is not going to see us make finals, but I would contend we have a right to expect more than just platitudes.

[praha 11,240]

If we don't win 5+ games this year, Bailey will be gone at seasons end. And I doubt Lyon will replace him.

[H_T 3,047]

Gee there are a lot of posters on here that seemingly would be happy for us to have another "unimproved" lowly year in the AFL. "Harden up" those of you who keep making excuses.

If it aint working, change it or fix it !!!!!

Bit sad really, I want SUCCESS, no excuses anymore. It just HAS to get better - sooner not later.

Believe me, we all want success. In fact, some may want it more than others. I'm one of those.

Some however, can identify the real reasons by dissecting a game such as last nights. Some want results now. I know of four boys who played their first game for Melbourne last night. I know alot more who have only played a handful of games and are in their second season. I know there are many that haven't played alot together too.

Surely you can see there is a mountain of development to be done ? I'm leaning towards a gradual improvement over the course of this season with plenty of exciting times, despite the poor showing in Perth.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Anyone who knows football knows that Lyon has a great knowledge and understanding of the game, and has alot of experiance in the game, coaching included.

I ignore the personal swipe Demon3. It was unnecessary.

He has no experience in coaching and his jolly for the Irish series and his selection of player for that event shows he did not understand the player type required for the series.

FWIW, Tim Watson has a great knowledge and understanding of the game but.....

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Thanks HT, point taken, but I just feel we are using our youth as a crutch, when we should be forging forward. I think the tendency to see our situation as unique, gives rise to making excuses for sub-par performances. If the group's collective confidence continues to be shattered, the damage done has the potential to go right through the entire club.

No its a fact. Nobody likes the sub standard performances and it was just that. We have to improve on this.

We played about nine blokes who had 10 games or less experience. You could probably add another six guys that have less than fifty games. Young players are going to take time to mature.

How much better would we have been with Jamar, Bate, Bartram, Bruce etc is hard to gauge. But if dont have a key senior list players on the ground then there is a real issue playing so many kids so often in the same team.

While there is alot of promise, the playing list is younger than the past three years.

Hopefully we dont see too many efforts like this. But its also a reminder that the young talent will take time.

And you are right about confidence, the environment and the playing list has to be managed carefully. This season could be as difficult as past years.

[Demon3 2,541]

I ignore the personal swipe Demon3. It was unnecessary.

He has no experience in coaching and his jolly for the Irish series and his selection of player for that event shows he did not understand the player type required for the series.

FWIW, Tim Watson has a great knowledge and understanding of the game but.....

See, thats where your wrong RR, and thats what smacks of ignorance. When Lyon was in charge of the International rules, the selection criteria was that the All Australian side must be picked, and then after that fill the gaps, that changed after his 4 year stint, yet he was still able to win 2 series with a team that was clearly not suited to the hybrid game.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

See, thats where your wrong RR, and thats what smacks of ignorance. When Lyon was in charge of the International rules, the selection criteria was that the All Australian side must be picked, and then after that fill the gaps, that changed after his 4 year stint, yet he was still able to win 2 series with a team that was clearly not suited to the hybrid game.

That is incorrect. There has been a mixed acceptance of the Irish series by the players and the squad may have drawn players who may have been or had been AA but it was not a directive that they must be picked. If you did the research on this you might be discovering what actually smacks of ignorance

And further a coaching stint in an end of season jolly with no consequence is hardly a grounding for AFL coaching.

It will 12 years this year since he retired as footballer. He has had plenty of time to have coached if he had wanted to. He hasn't.

Neither the experience or pedigree to coach at AFL at the moment. BTW, this is a critic of the notion of Lyon coaching and not the person as you have alleged elsewhere.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

No its a fact. Nobody likes the sub standard performances and it was just that. We have to improve on this.

We played about nine blokes who had 10 games or less experience. You could probably add another six guys that have less than fifty games. Young players are going to take time to mature.

How much better would we have been with Jamar, Bate, Bartram, Bruce etc is hard to gauge. But if dont have a key senior list players on the ground then there is a real issue playing so many kids so often in the same team.

While there is alot of promise, the playing list is younger than the past three years.

Hopefully we dont see too many efforts like this. But its also a reminder that the young talent will take time.

And you are right about confidence, the environment and the playing list has to be managed carefully. This season could be as difficult as past years.

I agree with you RR, my problem watching last nights game was our 2-3 Experienced players who really gave nothing. Maybe they are not good enough to lead.

It is what the club must find out in the weeks to come.

Some one has got to lead these kids...Maybe the Footy Department is planning on doing it themselves-to evolve a new leader.

FWIW i would have liked to see Brad Green up forward last night.

LJ was not ready to play physically or mentally last night, for whatever reason.

[Hardnut 327]

iv is pretty well spot-on.

Huddles, zones, rolling zones are passing fads - basic football attitudes and skills are the real essential requirements - footy is a simple game.

Look at the attitude difference at North this year - similar group of players to last year, but they played simple, hard, disciplined footy, enjoyed it and got the result they wanted.

Based on DB's two years, he should move on immediately and give MFC a chance of success this year.

[rpfc 28,469]

iv is pretty well spot-on.

Huddles, zones, rolling zones are passing fads - basic football attitudes and skills are the real essential requirements - footy is a simple game.

Look at the attitude difference at North this year - similar group of players to last year, but they played simple, hard, disciplined footy, enjoyed it and got the result they wanted.

Based on DB's two years, he should move on immediately and give MFC a chance of success this year.

You have used one NAB cup round to indict Bailey and champion Scott.

I form opinions on posters and remember their contributions well.

That is all I will say...

Some on here are trying to say that we will lose 14 games, and that that will be a successful season, and yet you don't think being belted at Subi is acceptable.

That dog don't hunt.

[agent_orange 0]

There's your problem.

Its a NAB Cup match being treated as though it was Rnd 1

I think the it is more the disappointment that we are seeing the same thing we saw last year.

Bailey has one thing in mind, possession game he learnt at Port. We don't have the players or skills to pull it off.

[agent_orange 0]

Really i didn't see Dean bailey dropping simple chest marks and missing every second target.... thats simple skill errors not coaching!!

I put it down to his lack of game plan. I don't think the players have any idea what the coach is trying achieve. They are playing like a bunch who are just making it up as they go.

Can anyone here tell me what Bailey's game plan is? Love to know.

[furious d 464]

I wouldn't like to see Lyon or Viney coaching at Melbourne. Lyon is champion of the Grant Thomas "ruckmen aren't necessary" school of coaching that almost cost St Kilda its entire window. Viney just because I don't like the idea of a father coaching his son at AFL level, and young Jack is going to be a demon.

As for last night, rpfc nailed it. Most of us expect to win 8 or so games this year, NEWSFLASH- that means we have to lose 14. Some of our losses will no doubt be insipid, so brace yourselves.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Bad Call!!! Horrendous Call!!! while our performance was

at best poor. It's hardly time to start beating the jungle drums calling

for a coaches head on the basis of one game. This is the most apathetic form of support. Calling for

Bailey to be sacked lacks courage lacks insight and common sense. In fact it's Richmond like.

If I was CEO I'd sign Dean to 2 more years and it's not blind faith it's the most pragmatic option

2 years to clear out the list 2 years to develop the recruits. The jungle drums started to beat loudly for Clarkson

2006/2007 and look what he did.

Please Garry Lyon if he had the cojones he'd of put his hand up long ago your talking about a media performer

with no recent senior coach experience. Scott West is more qualified than Garry Lyon.

This thread is nominated for the most ridiculous, over reactionary and ignorant of the year.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

As for last night, rpfc nailed it. Most of us expect to win 8 or so games this year, NEWSFLASH- that means we have to lose 14. Some of our losses will no doubt be insipid, so brace yourselves.

Being Thrashed by the Shockers should Never be accepted regardless of what the game is. Sure we are going to lose games this year, But not against that soft Mob. You are excusing our experienced players.

Those days are over in my book.

[demon3165 2,719]

All I can say is.

The lunatic is on the grass.

The lunatic is on the grass.

Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs.

Got to keep the loonies on the path.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

All I can say is.

The lunatic is on the grass.

The lunatic is on the grass.

Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs.

Got to keep the loonies on the path.

Now you have spent the day off your Medication haven't you 3165...Naughty Boy!!!!

[demon3165 2,719]

Now you have spent the day off your Medication haven't you 3165...Naughty Boy!!!!

Was just getting off them.......lol....... until I have read most of the posts on this subject, don't know if I need them or some of our supporters??

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

The laughable thing is expecting Lyon to take a million dollar a year pay cut to coach us.

[flog 20]

All I can say is.

The lunatic is on the grass.

The lunatic is on the grass.

Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs.

Got to keep the loonies on the path.

Thats a Pink Floyd track is it not? Brings back some hazy memories! like super super hazy