List Changes

[Redleg 41,467]

I was just reading the 2007 Melbourne handbook and noticed that 21 senior players from the 2007 list have gone in 3 years. That is some change.

[rpfc 28,779]

I was just reading the 2007 Melbourne handbook and noticed that 21 senior players from the 2007 list have gone in 3 years. That is some change.

But, even with that change, if we don't win 8 games - Bailey's gone.

7 wins and it is sayonara.

8 and its yeah, ok, we will give you another 3 years.

Ah, football fans, we are so ridiculously stupid.

Edited December 1, 2009 by rpfc

[The Chazz 4,077]

But, even with that change, if we don't win 8 games - Bailey's gone.

7 wins and it is sayonara.

8 and its yeah, ok, we will give you another 3 years.

Ah, football fans, we are so ridiculously stupid.

I would be shattered if Dean Bailey got the arse if we won 7 games this year. He inherited a pretty crappy list, and in the 2 years to date, he has been a big player in getting the list of kids we have got now. He sacrificed winning games by playing kids, and dropping/delisting some of our favourites. Had to be ruthless, and did it very well.

I'm confident that if we win 6+ games in 2010, Bails will get a 2 year extension.

On the flip side though, if one of my worst fears comes true and they do give him the arse, pleeeeeeeease can we not have Garry Lyon coaching??? He's not a coaches [censored], but should it happen, in 2-3 years time when these kids are starting to show some consistency, it will be Lyon that looks like the hero, not in my book sorry.

It's too early to tell what sort of a coach Bails is, he hasn't been able to operate ate 100% in a majority of his games as coach, and when he has, we've had some bloody good wins, as well as putting in some very good performances against sides we shouldn't have been close to. Give him the 2 years extension now, that means he will be coaching up to the end of 2012 - if there is no significant improvement in that time, we still have a lot of football left in most of our list.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Bailey has performed to the script he was given with the job. A plan was put in place

most likely the fastest way possible to a premiership and lasting success.

Upon reviewing our list he was of the mind we had a lot of players past their

prime and a lot of players who were not up to AFL. I think Bailey rates players on the

following 1st commitment/accountability to the jumper/cause i.e. team players 2nd Versatility and game

plan adaptability 3rd Ability to run 4th The mercurial.

I think he has adopted Bomber Thompson's philosphies on players/development I can see his choices in player recruitment much in the same

way Geelong's was. An elite midfield is at the core with players who can play multiple roles by moving forward or back as required. A rock

solid rebounding/attacking defence and a functional forward line.

Geelong almost lost faith in Thompson in 2006 he was nearly sacked It took 160 games and 6 seasons before it all clicked.

Bailey coming from such a low base and faced with a debiliating injury run where Neitz could no longer play, Robbo ruptured

his achilies, players who weren't committed to the necessary level i.e Carrol decimated his opportunity for transition .

He has been required to fashion a side amongst fire and brimstone with criticism a lot unfounded, unhelpful and disrespectful to the MFC

from every corner supporters, media, AFL and has been unwavering in his objectives the rebuild has gone on.

I don't want to support a team that sacks the coach without a thought I'd go support Richmond if i wanted that.

We need stability, we need to educate/develop the young players we have this will take another 4 years.

Nothing Bailey has done so far makes me think he cant do the development and just remember in reality he has had nothing to work with

in terms of a functional, talented and consistant side.

If it was up to me I'd sign him for another 2 years today because then i could access his coachin performance honestly.

[The Chazz 4,077]

...

Totally correct Diablo - backs up my opinion of Bails.

It's amazing how many Melbourne supporters were calling for his blood as early as mid-2009, but they were the first ones touching themselves when we read out the names Trengove and Scully last Thursday. These people are frustrating, they wanted Bailey too win more games, but then are happy to get the first 2 picks - can't have both, people!!!

As we have both said, give him a 2 year extension immediately, this will show the Club has great faith in him, and will show the players there will be stability in the immediate future, which, based on the original OP of the player changes, I think a lot of the more senior guys especially would like to see that stability. It will also give DB the confidence that the Club still believes he is the right man for the job.

Further to the list changes; I think at the end of 2010 there will be a couple more interesting delistings/retirements. I just hope Junior Mc puts his hand up half way through this year and announces his retirement at the end of the season, as I have a bad feeling he will struggle to get a game in 2011, which will then turn people against Bailey (again) for handling the situation similar to the Jeff White/Robbo/Yze/etc scenarios. I wouldn't be surprised in C Bruce gets the tap on the shoulder midseason too. Retire on your own terms or be prepared to play a lot of footy for Casey in 2011.

(McDonald and Bruce are 2 names used as an example. I'm not sure about contracts, etc, and I do rate both players as excellent clubmen).

Edited December 2, 2009 by billy2803

[rpfc 28,779]

Rabble, rabble...had enough time...rabble, rabble...significant improvement or else...rabble, rabble...no rush to re-sign, nobody wants him...rabble, rabble.

[Redleg 41,467]

Rabble, rabble...had enough time...rabble, rabble...significant improvement or else...rabble, rabble...no rush to re-sign, nobody wants him...rabble, rabble.

That sounds like the witch in Sleeping Beauty.

[rpfc 28,779]

That sounds like the witch in Sleeping Beauty.

Angry towns people in South Park.

Showing your age possibly?

No. Ok, then.

[Redleg 41,467]

Angry towns people in South Park.

Showing your age possibly?

No. Ok, then.

Never seen an episode of South Park. Never seen an episode of the Simpsons either. I suppose I am an old fart.

[dee-luded 2,959]

But, even with that change, if we don't win 8 games - Bailey's gone.

7 wins and it is sayonara.

8 and its yeah, ok, we will give you another 3 years.

Ah, football fans, we are so ridiculously stupid.

I'd say 7 wins or more is a pass.

Only 6 wins & questions will be asked...

I'm satisfied, that the, 'football department team', is doing a good job, & bailey has followed the plan set out for the team.

He's done a good job & now must start to get some good wins for club morale.

2010 is still a major development year in that we will see the introduction of quite a few 1st gamers & also other young regulars will still be trying to get games of experience into their careers.

I don't expect us to set the footy world on fire next year, so I would think this teaching coach should be safe for a little while yet.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This topic has been bashed around in other threads but.....

depending where those wins come, we may have more than 8 wins but Bailey may not survive the heat.

At 8 wins at year end would you give him 3 years? I doubt he will accept a shorter term. I am not sure I would. But I am not certain I would be in the position to be confident in giving him another 3 years. Its an interesting one.

[Rogue 585]

Further to the list changes; I think at the end of 2010 there will be a couple more interesting delistings/retirements. I just hope Junior Mc puts his hand up half way through this year and announces his retirement at the end of the season, as I have a bad feeling he will struggle to get a game in 2011, which will then turn people against Bailey (again) for handling the situation similar to the Jeff White/Robbo/Yze/etc scenarios. I wouldn't be surprised in C Bruce gets the tap on the shoulder midseason too. Retire on your own terms or be prepared to play a lot of footy for Casey in 2011.

Given that our third pick in the draft will be nearing #60 I doubt we'll want to cut too many players, so I'm not expecting too many interesting delisting/retirements.

McDonald won't be anything like the White, Robbo or Yze scenario.

Bruce could be an interesting case, but if he plays good footy in 2010 I think there'll be a role for him in the future.

There are still players on our list we'll decide simply aren't up to AFL standard.

At 8 wins at year end would you give him 3 years? I doubt he will accept a shorter term. I am not sure I would.

Why wouldn't you?

First, you might never get another chance at senior level. Second, you'd be leaving just as the list you built was ready to progress.

I highly doubt there'd be many sides trying to poach you on the back of 8 wins, and you'd be crazy to give up a senior gig after you've spent a couple of years presiding over a rebuilding.

He'd be the first AFL Coach who, after taking his side to two wooden spoons and then ~11th on the ladder, turned his back on a two year contract extension because it wasn't long enough!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I reckon even if Bailey fails next year he'll just sneak in for one more year based on the fact he has a squad entirely made up of kids. It's 2011 where they'll mark him more harshly.

What will play a bigger part, however, is what coaches are available for what wil be the second-most attractive list in the AFL.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I reckon even if Bailey fails next year he'll just sneak in for one more year based on the fact he has a squad entirely made up of kids. It's 2011 where they'll mark him more harshly.

What will play a bigger part, however, is what coaches are available for what wil be the second-most attractive list in the AFL.

When would you give him the extra year?

If Bailey does get to the end of 2010 when his 3 year contract is over, offering him another year would be a half hearted endorsement of Bailey by the Board, Bailey would see it as a lack of faith and the risk is he will push for ST wins at the cost of LT development of players.

If MFC are of that mindset then they should be thinking of a coach for the future beyond Bailey.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Why wouldn't you?

First, you might never get another chance at senior level. Second, you'd be leaving just as the list you built was ready to progress.

I highly doubt there'd be many sides trying to poach you on the back of 8 wins, and you'd be crazy to give up a senior gig after you've spent a couple of years presiding over a rebuilding.

He'd be the first AFL Coach who, after taking his side to two wooden spoons and then ~11th on the ladder, turned his back on a two year contract extension because it wasn't long enough!

Its interesting. I guess if I was Bailey I would want to know what has changed from 3 years ago when you appointed me for 3 years and now you offer me less than that. Given the difficult road Bailey has taken and there is no doubt he has sacrificed his WL record for list development with the knowledge and acceptance of the Board I dont think the issue of the wooden spoons and the ladder placings should be significantly relevant. If it is then I think the Club does not have fiath in Bailey and he will be operating with one eye looking over his shoulder all the time.

[Deeoldfart 8,065]

Never seen an episode of South Park. Never seen an episode of the Simpsons either. I suppose I am an old fart.

That makes two of us, at least!

Edited December 2, 2009 by Deeoldfart

[dee-luded 2,959]

Its interesting. I guess if I was Bailey I would want to know what has changed from 3 years ago when you appointed me for 3 years and now you offer me less than that. Given the difficult road Bailey has taken and there is no doubt he has sacrificed his WL record for list development with the knowledge and acceptance of the Board I dont think the issue of the wooden spoons and the ladder placings should be significantly relevant. If it is then I think the Club does not have fiath in Bailey and he will be operating with one eye looking over his shoulder all the time.

I think the key is, if the club & the players, especially, still have faith in the coach.

[45HG 1,559]

I think there's too much speculation over the issue - it basically comes down to your personal approach and attitude IMO

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

When would you give him the extra year?

I thought his contract went for a year after that?

If not, then I fail to see why 2 more years isn't fair. This is assuming we end up on 6 wins or so... If there's pressure, he has to understand he's in the gun.

I can't imagine it would come to this though. Even the most ardent one-eyed Pies fans can see we're coming (except Old Xavs).

[mordja 187]

impatience.

rarely do people work better under intense pressure or being forced to play/coach for their jobs.

id rather DB was coaching for the long term interests of MFC as opposed to guarding his own back and trying to win games short term by not blooding players.

[Redleg 41,467]

impatience.

rarely do people work better under intense pressure or being forced to play/coach for their jobs.

id rather DB was coaching for the long term interests of MFC as opposed to guarding his own back and trying to win games short term by not blooding players.

Well said.

[Gooner 9]

If he's got a strategy for the club, then give him time.

If we haven't won at least 2-3 games by round 10, then it may be time to look at DB's plans, but otherwise I'd be in favour of giving him another two years.

[Demonator 93]

impatience.

rarely do people work better under intense pressure or being forced to play/coach for their jobs.

id rather DB was coaching for the long term interests of MFC as opposed to guarding his own back and trying to win games short term by not blooding players.

I agree, and that is exactly the way I thought he coached this year?!

[Adzman 2,154]

The dees will give him a MINIMUM of 2 years. I would think given where the list is at, he would need a 3 year deal to really see where this is all heading.

Dropping Bails next year isn't going to achieve a thing, even if we only notch up 6 wins. We are the MFC, not the RFC. Sacking coaches is not an annual ritual that helps a club develop.

We have weathered the storm, Bails is now driving this ship to calmer waters.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

The bottom line is, if Bailey does not coach us long term, the next coach of the MFC will benefit from all the dirty groundwork that Bailey has done.

Bailey may never get the gratitude he deserves for doing the hard thing, the right thing by the club. He put his own reputation on the line for the sake of our future, and for that he deserves to be rewarded with another 2 year contract to take him through to 2013.

Now is the most crucial time for our list in terms of development, and game-day tactics are less critical. From the outside, Bailey strikes me as a great teacher and developmental coach, which is what we need at this stage of our premiership cycle. In 3 seasons we may well be ready to challenge for a flag, and by then I think we'll know whether Bailey is the right tactical coach to take us there.