Just watching "League Teams": St. Kilda

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

Wow!

Now thats where we need to get to!

Also 12 first round picks!

Tells the story!

[Sir Why You Little 34,941]

Wow!

Now thats where we need to get to!

Also 12 first round picks!

Tells the story!

Course it does. Hard Work & Draft Picks. Those who want 5 wins+ this year are deluding themselves.

Lyon has taught his Team to all do specific Jobs & they the players are respecting that.

[Einstein 1]

The Saints are a machine right now. Their defensive pressure at the contest is amazing to watch. And even when their isn't direct pressire, teams are worried out of it because they are expecting it. The Bulldogs last week were hearing footsteps all night.

Best Saints team I've seen. Will be interesting to see if they can maintain it.

Can't wait to see a Demon machine someday soon.

Edit - On the subject of the number of players used, I'd like to see the stats on modern day premiership teams and the number of players they have used during the season, along with the number of debuts made in that season. I suspect the numbers would be low.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Einstein

[Sir Why You Little 34,941]

Most Sides who win the Flag have a pretty settled side all year, particularly in defence.

6 Guys who know what to do & where to run....& Know there Team mate is going to do the job...TRUST.

It's what Bailey must teach. (and i am sure is) I can see good battles between Lyon & Bailey in the crystal ball.

[Einstein 1]

So here's the last 11 seasons, number of players used by the premiership team, the wooden spooner and the Dees. Not sure what is tells us, but it is what it is.

2008 Hawthorn 31, Melbourne 39

2007 Geelong 31, Richmond 37, Melbourne 39

2006 - West Coast 34, Carlton 37, Melbourne 35

2005 - Sydney 32, Carlton 36, Melbourne 34

2004 - Port Adelaide 32, Richmond 39, Melbourne 34

2003 - Brisbane 32, Western Bulldogs 32, Melbourne 33

2002 - Brisbane 30, Carlton 39, Melbourne 32

2001 - Brisbane 35, Fremantle 37, Melbourne 34

2000 - Essendon 30, StKilda 38, Melbourne 35

1999 - North Melbourne 34, Collingwood 39, Melbourne 38

1998 - Adelaide 38, Bridbane 41, Melbourne 36

[Sir Why You Little 34,941]

So here's the last 11 seasons, number of players used by the premiership team, the wooden spooner and the Dees. Not sure what is tells us, but it is what it is.

2008 Hawthorn 31, Melbourne 39

2007 Geelong 31, Richmond 37, Melbourne 39

2006 - West Coast 34, Carlton 37, Melbourne 35

2005 - Sydney 32, Carlton 36, Melbourne 34

2004 - Port Adelaide 32, Richmond 39, Melbourne 34

2003 - Brisbane 32, Western Bulldogs 32, Melbourne 33

2002 - Brisbane 30, Carlton 39, Melbourne 32

2001 - Brisbane 35, Fremantle 37, Melbourne 34

2000 - Essendon 30, StKilda 38, Melbourne 35

1999 - North Melbourne 34, Collingwood 39, Melbourne 38

1998 - Adelaide 38, Bridbane 41, Melbourne 36

2000 says it all. Bombers had 5 less players to worry about. That's such a difference.

30 players & they lost only one game Phuk. Trully amazing. We had a good side that year. But 2001 didn't make the 8. What was going on????

[praha 10,368]

We should have won the flag in '98. I get angry every time I think that that crap Adelaide team got to play an injured and tired Bulldogs in the Prelim, but we get North. They may have beaten North, and we would have had an enormous chance against the Crows again in the GF.

[grazman 6,652]

Loved the bit where Tony Shaw was discussing Melbourne and said that Mark Jamar had been good this year, but was a bit down last week and that Nathan Jones and Brock McLean would be important at the stoppages this week.

Edited July 30, 2009 by grazman

[H_T 2,941]

Loved the bit where Tony Shaw was discussing Melbourne and said that Mark Jamar had been good this year, but was a bit down last week and that Nathan Jones and Brock McLean would be important at the stoppages this week.

LOL. Typical Shaw.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

So here's the last 11 seasons, number of players used by the premiership team, the wooden spooner and the Dees. Not sure what is tells us, but it is what it is.

2008 Hawthorn 31, Melbourne 39

2007 Geelong 31, Richmond 37, Melbourne 39

2006 - West Coast 34, Carlton 37, Melbourne 35

2005 - Sydney 32, Carlton 36, Melbourne 34

2004 - Port Adelaide 32, Richmond 39, Melbourne 34

2003 - Brisbane 32, Western Bulldogs 32, Melbourne 33

2002 - Brisbane 30, Carlton 39, Melbourne 32

2001 - Brisbane 35, Fremantle 37, Melbourne 34

2000 - Essendon 30, StKilda 38, Melbourne 35

1999 - North Melbourne 34, Collingwood 39, Melbourne 38

1998 - Adelaide 38, Bridbane 41, Melbourne 36

Good stat Einstein.

What it tell me is that you not only need to have quality in your list (particularly stars) but you need to have your best fit and on the paddock as much as possible.

So many things need to go right to win a flag. Some of those things a Club can influence, some it just cannot control (eg collision injuries like ACL, Collarbone etc).

[wattsup 470]

We should have won the flag in '98. I get angry every time I think that that crap Adelaide team got to play an injured and tired Bulldogs in the Prelim, but we get North. They may have beaten North, and we would have had an enormous chance against the Crows again in the GF.

agree considering we smashed adelaide in the 1st final how did that work here is thhe ladde 4 1998 was the final 8 and who plays who different back then cause if it was today then we would have played north back then and not adelaide in 1st game

1 NORTH MELBOURNE 22 16 6 0 2486 2117 117.4 64

2 W. BULLDOGS 22 15 7 0 2353 2019 116.5 60

3 SYDNEY 22 14 8 0 2283 2143 106.5 56

4 MELBOURNE 22 14 8 0 1989 1956 101.7 56

5 ADELAIDE 22 13 9 0 2172 1763 123.2 52

6 ST.KILDA 22 13 9 0 2148 2104 102.1 52

7 WEST COAST 22 12 10 0 1940 1773 109.4 48

8 ESSENDON 22 12 10 0 2250 2071 108.6 48

9 RICHMOND 22 12 10 0 2018 1906 105.9 48

10 PORT ADELAIDE 22 9 12 1 1928 2017 95.6 38

11 CARLTON 22 9 13 0 2018 2109 95.7 36

12 GEELONG 22 9 13 0 1777 1963 90.5 36

13 HAWTHORN 22 8 14 0 1992 2083 95.6 32

14 COLLINGWOOD 22 7 15 0 1968 2167 90.8 28

15 FREMANTLE 22 7 15 0 1739 2277 76.4 28

16 BRISBANE 22 5 16 1 1860 2453 75.8 22

Edited July 31, 2009 by wattsup

[Sir Why You Little 34,941]

agree considering we smashed adelaide in the 1st final how did that work i cant remember the ladder positions

We got shafted that's what Happened. Crows should have been booted out after Week 1

But that year the league had some hopeless final system in place, that was quickly changed.

But of course we copped it!!!! BASTARDS.

[old55 21,646]

We got shafted that's what Happened. Crows should have been booted out after Week 1

But that year the league had some hopeless final system in place, that was quickly changed.

But of course we copped it!!!! BASTARDS.

That's cry-baby [censored].

North were the best side that year, we couldn't beat them in the PF and we didn't deserve the flag, they should've won the GF and would've if they'd kicked straight - it would've been over by half time. We've NEVER deserved to win the flag since 1964, not in 1987, 1988, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2000 or 2002.

We need to build the best list we can and be like Geelong and St.Kilda - legitimate favourites for once. I'm looking forward to it in 5 years.

Edited July 31, 2009 by old55

[Hobbits's 17]

That's cry-baby [censored].

North were the best side that year, ..

That's bullsh!t. North may have finished top, but it's debatable that they were the best. Just so happens that the best defence usually comes through out on top. As it did with Adelaide who were the arguably the best defence. They thoroughly deserved that Premiership. So North couldn't convert before halftime.....didn't mean they were entitled to win it.

[Geddy Lee 582]

That's cry-baby [censored].

North were the best side that year, we couldn't beat them in the PF and we didn't deserve the flag, they should've won the GF and would've if they'd kicked straight - it would've been over by half time. We've NEVER deserved to win the flag since 1964, not in 1987, 1988, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2000 or 2002.

Hawthorn were the best team last year, as Adelaide were the best team in 98. Only one day matters.

[titan_uranus 22,788]

Course it does. Hard Work & Draft Picks. Those who want 5 wins+ this year are deluding themselves.

Lyon has taught his Team to all do specific Jobs & they the players are respecting that.

The interesting thing will be to watch next year and see if the same things start to happen at Melbourne. We'll have the top draft picks, but will we gel together like St Kilda has?

Loved the bit where Tony Shaw was discussing Melbourne and said that Mark Jamar had been good this year, but was a bit down last week and that Nathan Jones and Brock McLean would be important at the stoppages this week.

I hate how there are so many journalists/commentators who don't do enough research and who don't know enough about all 16 teams. If you're going to be a commentator then you should be able to provide accurate assessments of all 16 clubs, not just the better ones or your favourites.

Hawthorn were the best team last year, as Adelaide were the best team in 98. Only one day matters.

Agree. Essendon has the same story in 1999, losing the Prelim to Carlton by 1 point when they felt that they were the better team. If we were premiership material in 1998, we should have beaten North Melbourne. We didn't, so we weren't.

[CHAMP 347]

Loved the bit where Tony Shaw was discussing Melbourne and said that Mark Jamar had been good this year, but was a bit down last week and that Nathan Jones and Brock McLean would be important at the stoppages this week.

Yeah, I laughed, but honestly did it surprise you. It surprises me that he still gets a gig. Offers nothing new or insightful to any discussion because he's always struggling with an intellectual deficiency, throws in a few buzz words and cliches and sits back thinking, "I got away with saying nothing again".

[Sir Why You Little 34,941]

Agree. Essendon has the same story in 1999, losing the Prelim to Carlton by 1 point when they felt that they were the better team. If we were premiership material in 1998, we should have beaten North Melbourne. We didn't, so we weren't.

Not Argueing the point about who was best all year. My point is that the AFL tinkered with the Mcintyre System that year. Adelaide who finished 5th after Round 22 were beaten by melbourne by 10 Goals-Thus should have been eliminated from the Finals after that Game, but weren't.

They won the Flag fair & Square no doubt, but we Demons got shafted by the System that year no doubt.

The '98 Granny was a ripper though as i Detest Wayne (How Did he avoid Jail in America???) Carey!!!

Loved that Bad Kicking!

[praha 10,368]

I'm sorry, but we were better than the doggies and better than the crows that year. Adelaide might have beaten North in the prelim and that would have made us the favourite for the flag. We were second best behind North going into those finals. Forget about the ladder.

Oh well. 11 years ago lol

[Einstein 1]

You can't complain that we didn't win a premiership because of the finals system.

Yes, the finals system from 1994 to 1999 was a rubbish system. All finishing 4th in 1998 meant was that unless the very unlikely happened, which was both 1st and 2nd losing, we would be playing in week two regardless of whether we beat the Crows or not. The Crows in 5th place were essentially in the same position other than the fact that they had to play the 4th placed team, Melbourne, away.

Regardless of the result, it was very likely that both teams would be playing in week two of the finals. So long as 1st defeated 8th and 2nd defeated 7th, teams 3 4 5 and 6 would all play the next week.

The only way the Crows would have been eliminated after week one was if both 1st and 2nd lost. Of all the seasons that this system was in place, never did 1st and 2nd both lose and only twice did either of them lose, Carlton 2nd in 1994 and Geelong 2nd in 1997.

So it was a rubbish system with too many logical flaws that I was happy to leave behind for the current system.

You can't say the AFL screwed us because the system was the system, good or bad. It applied to every team.

If we had played under the current system, we would have played North first week in a Qualifying Final which I would estimate we would have lost.

Adelaide would have beaten Essendon in their Elimination Final in Adelaide, which would then mean we would play Adelaide in a Semi at the MCG, which I believe we would have won.

We would have then played the winner of the Bulldogs v Sydney Qualifying Final in a Preliminary Final. If it were the Swans it would have been at the SCG, which would have been a tough task. Otherwise the Bulldogs at the MCG. Would we have beaten either of those sides? Maybe, we were playing some good footy, but we couldn't say certainly.

Then we would have encountered most likely North in the Grand Final, which considering we didn't beat them in a Prelim Final, it would be hard to suggest we would have beaten them on Grand Final day.

In short, we didn't win the flag in '98 because we weren't good enough.

Of all the seasons where we can look back and think about the one that got away, 1998 isn't one I think to often about.

[Sir Why You Little 34,941]

You can't complain that we didn't win a premiership because of the finals system.

Yes, the finals system from 1994 to 1999 was a rubbish system. All finishing 4th in 1998 meant was that unless the very unlikely happened, which was both 1st and 2nd losing, we would be playing in week two regardless of whether we beat the Crows or not. The Crows in 5th place were essentially in the same position other than the fact that they had to play the 4th placed team, Melbourne, away.

Regardless of the result, it was very likely that both teams would be playing in week two of the finals. So long as 1st defeated 8th and 2nd defeated 7th, teams 3 4 5 and 6 would all play the next week.

The only way the Crows would have been eliminated after week one was if both 1st and 2nd lost. Of all the seasons that this system was in place, never did 1st and 2nd both lose and only twice did either of them lose, Carlton 2nd in 1994 and Geelong 2nd in 1997.

So it was a rubbish system with too many logical flaws that I was happy to leave behind for the current system.

You can't say the AFL screwed us because the system was the system, good or bad. It applied to every team.

If we had played under the current system, we would have played North first week in a Qualifying Final which I would estimate we would have lost.

Adelaide would have beaten Essendon in their Elimination Final in Adelaide, which would then mean we would play Adelaide in a Semi at the MCG, which I believe we would have won.

We would have then played the winner of the Bulldogs v Sydney Qualifying Final in a Preliminary Final. If it were the Swans it would have been at the SCG, which would have been a tough task. Otherwise the Bulldogs at the MCG. Would we have beaten either of those sides? Maybe, we were playing some good footy, but we couldn't say certainly.

Then we would have encountered most likely North in the Grand Final, which considering we didn't beat them in a Prelim Final, it would be hard to suggest we would have beaten them on Grand Final day.

In short, we didn't win the flag in '98 because we weren't good enough.

Of all the seasons where we can look back and think about the one that got away, 1998 isn't one I think to often about.

Who am i to argue with the great Albert Einstein!! Hehe.

It's all Hypothetical i know, but 98 still irks me & always will. We Smashed those Crows & were not rewarded QED.