CAVEAT EMPTOR

[desertfox 9]

Yze-Magic you know the West Tank Eagles will lose this game no matter if Knights played all his reserve players and some rookies...

[grant 10]

Gotta love dean bailey. He will cop it from all angles this week. You would even think the players are going to ask questions. He took one for the team today.

I dont care what ppl think, but Im proud to be a dees supporter today

[rpfc 28,483]

Putrid and embarrasing. I am ashamed to be a Demon today. The only positive was that the players left nothing on the field.

DB just did what he had to do with the circumstances he has been dealt.

I guess this is harder for some, but I haven't been 'results driven' since the 'footy sucks' game in 07.

[45HG 1,539]

I cannot believe what I just saw.

DD, I agree with you. A few on here will try to play moral high ground, but we can never say anything about Carlton's tanking again. Whilst we've not gone from 4-7 to 4-18, but today was just as bad.

[45HG 1,539]

Mind you, at least we are taking ourselves seriously enough to do everything in our power to further our cause.

[rpfc 28,483]

I cannot believe what I just saw.

DD, I agree with you. A few on here will try to play moral high ground, but we can never say anything about Carlton's tanking again. Whilst we've not gone from 4-7 to 4-18, but today was just as bad.

We tanked, but come on 45H16 (?)....

They were 4 and 7 FCS...

4 and 7!

Equal, I think not.

[Ryan Dee 140]

Wow. Good get MM...

I've never seen ANYTHING like that. Any demons supporter who uses the term "Carltank" should hang their heads.

It's one thing to NOT pick up Trav Johnstone, but to put what I saw as at least 6 positional changes, that were kept for large portions of the match, and not make changes... Unbelievable. I've never seen all this in one arvo:

- Positional changes - Miller to ruck, Newton to defence, Warnock to attack, Bartram on Reiwoldt or Morton or whoever it was. PJ on Brown in defence. It just went on and on.

- Let's say we won that. We would have made the most aggressive tank I've ever seen by a long way, with the "other" 22 on our list at this stage... The Tigers really are the worst in the game at the moment. Looking at the images of the players celebrating, I can't believe they think they deserved that.

- There were positives from a LOT of players too. Apart from a great game again to Bruce, and JMac who needed one, who are the older players, there were lots of younger guys who showed new things, or consolidated form we'd seen earlier this year. Bate, Cheney, Dunn, Grimes, Jetta, Jones, Petterd, Valenti in patches, Warnock...

How we got away without those points is beyond me. I'll be trying to forget this as soon as possible, but I don't think I'll be able to.

One of the biggest spectacles I've ever seen.

Never in doubt B)

It felt like a win today. (Grimes is a star) obviously, and petterd has turned his season around in the last 4 weeks. I was starting to worry about him quite a bit but to his credit he has really picked his game up. 20 odd games petterd has played, I suppose we can all lose sight of how little he has actually played and expect to much to quick. Good on Ricky bobby.

DB well done

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

i felt sorry for bailey today, hes record is shithouse and he could of won that game today,hopefully they look after him in the future,and after todays game anyone thats concerned about draft picks need not worry.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Norm Smith would be turning in his grave at how his club have resorted to laying down.

Blame the AFL not the MFC. This club wants the young Elite talent in the team. After this year Victorian clubs will get sod all for years.

The Filth did the same a few years ago, your Great Prez agreed.

Norman is resting comfortably....

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Any demons supporter who uses the term "Carltank" should hang their heads.

Agree with you. And if a situation ever arises in the future where a team tanks against us I don't think we're in the position.

For that matter, we shouldn't be saying anything about West Coast losing either. Mind you, they're currently 19 points up.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

i felt sorry for bailey today, hes record is shithouse and he could of won that game today,hopefully they look after him in the future

That is actually a very good point JTR. You would suspect that Bailey is going to cop a lot of flak this week after this performance. If we'd wanted to win, we could have beaten them by 5 goals. That will hurt him.

[45HG 1,539]

Rpfc, you're joking mate.

I realise they were 4-7, but everything we did today was just as bad.

[dimmy 1,307]

Don't give us this rubbish about tanking. Some people have become obsessed about trading and drafts. 1 player will not win us a premiership, however I group (ie team) will. We are starting to develop a group who are really learning to together. Even Geelong make mistakes. That 2nd half today was as good a game as you could wish to see.

Warnock was up forward to provide height and strength to stretch Richmond'sdefence (and he did).

Why are we so obsessed about it. Petterd, Bartram,Grimes,Cheney, Bennell,Jetta,Frawley, Dunn all proved that they are quality players in the making. We forget sometimes these kids are only 21 (if that) They faced one of the good midfields in the AFL (admittedly with Foley absent) and more than held their own so well done ,Petterd,Jones,Bartram and Jetta. If we do not get Scully, the sky is not going to fall in !!! When you look at Premiership teams ,there are a lot of "ördinary players" in those sides.

Mc Donald was what we expect of him, wholehearted !!!

The coaches are developing flexibility. Or else we will have a side of Fevolas who can only play one position providing everyone else puts it lace out to him, or else you sulk !!

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Don't give us this rubbish about tanking. Some people have become obsessed about trading and drafts. 1 player will not win us a premiership, however I group (ie team) will. We are starting to develop a group who are really learning to together. Even Geelong make mistakes. That 2nd half today was as good a game as you could wish to see.

Warnock was up forward to provide height and strength to stretch Richmond'sdefence (and he did).

Why are we so obsessed about it. Petterd, Bartram,Grimes,Cheney, Bennell,Jetta,Frawley, Dunn all proved that they are quality players in the making. We forget sometimes these kids are only 21 (if that) They faced one of the good midfields in the AFL (admittedly with Foley absent) and more than held their own so well done ,Petterd,Jones,Bartram and Jetta. If we do not get Scully, the sky is not going to fall in !!! When you look at Premiership teams ,there are a lot of "ördinary players" in those sides.

Mc Donald was what we expect of him, wholehearted !!!

The coaches are developing flexibility. Or else we will have a side of Fevolas who can only play one position providing everyone else puts it lace out to him, or else you sulk !!

Pull your head out of the sand dimmy.

Warnock providing height! We had Miller, Newton, Johnson, Spencer and Martin all in the team, and they pick our full back! That is tanking.

I certainly don't expect to see Warnock playing forward next year, so I highly doubt that was a bid to develop 'flexibility'.

And you've ignored all the other instances of tanking, too.

To be truthful, it's hard to take you seriously when you say things like Richmond's midfield is one of the good ones in the AFL, and that the second half of this match was as good a game as you could wish to see.

[rpfc 28,483]

Don't give us this rubbish about tanking. Some people have become obsessed about trading and drafts. 1 player will not win us a premiership, however I group (ie team) will. We are starting to develop a group who are really learning to together. Even Geelong make mistakes. That 2nd half today was as good a game as you could wish to see.

Warnock was up forward to provide height and strength to stretch Richmond'sdefence (and he did).

Why are we so obsessed about it. Petterd, Bartram,Grimes,Cheney, Bennell,Jetta,Frawley, Dunn all proved that they are quality players in the making. We forget sometimes these kids are only 21 (if that) They faced one of the good midfields in the AFL (admittedly with Foley absent) and more than held their own so well done ,Petterd,Jones,Bartram and Jetta. If we do not get Scully, the sky is not going to fall in !!! When you look at Premiership teams ,there are a lot of "ördinary players" in those sides.

Mc Donald was what we expect of him, wholehearted !!!

The coaches are developing flexibility. Or else we will have a side of Fevolas who can only play one position providing everyone else puts it lace out to him, or else you sulk !!

It must be very freeing to think like you do.

We tanked.

That's not to say there isn't any benefits from the tactics.

Jetta learnt from playing on Cousins, Warnock and Frawley got a bit of freedom, Miller and Bate got to Ablett and Bartel for a half, PJ got punished and played on Brown, and Newton had the chance to be the loose man accross the backline and get some easy touches.

Jetta learnt, Miller, Bate, Frawley, and Warnock got new perspectives and we all found out that the careers of Newton and Johnson will be over in 4 or 26 weeks time.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Don't give us this rubbish about tanking. Some people have become obsessed about trading and drafts. 1 player will not win us a premiership, however I group (ie team) will. We are starting to develop a group who are really learning to together. Even Geelong make mistakes. That 2nd half today was as good a game as you could wish to see.

Warnock was up forward to provide height and strength to stretch Richmond'sdefence (and he did).

Why are we so obsessed about it. Petterd, Bartram,Grimes,Cheney, Bennell,Jetta,Frawley, Dunn all proved that they are quality players in the making. We forget sometimes these kids are only 21 (if that) They faced one of the good midfields in the AFL (admittedly with Foley absent) and more than held their own so well done ,Petterd,Jones,Bartram and Jetta. If we do not get Scully, the sky is not going to fall in !!! When you look at Premiership teams ,there are a lot of "ördinary players" in those sides.

Mc Donald was what we expect of him, wholehearted !!!

The coaches are developing flexibility. Or else we will have a side of Fevolas who can only play one position providing everyone else puts it lace out to him, or else you sulk !!

HaHa!! The second half was as good a game as you would want to see!!! What tablets are you on...Bailey did a great job today, planning for the future. He wants the PP, as i would if i were coaching.

Miller was playing midfield, warnock up forward. List management was on show thank god.

[beelzebub 23,379]

Well..im rather impressed with ol' Dean and yet his best laid plans ( as oft are to do ) nearly came unstuck !! Just shows how inept the Toiges possibly are thatwe stil nearly won that !! and they won last wekk...wtf ???

Definitely some positives to take out of it.. . Posibly we may luck out with a few getting a holiday courtesy of the judiciary... two weeks ought to be ok

but seriously.. Interesting to see the 'other' sides of a few players as they showed their wares when played out of position !!! Grimes is class . he had a few companions today. Jetta will do quite of thankyou.. but thats possibly for the player review threads.

Today was all about an outcome.. we got it... just !! phewwwwwwwwwwwww

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,846]

When we hit the front with a minute left, did anyone see Bailey lose the plot and storm out of the box. I believe he was coaching to lose.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

When we hit the front with a minute left, did anyone see Bailey lose the plot and storm out of the box. I believe he was coaching to lose.

And he was seen smiling after the result was done. Bailey is coaching for the future, not for this season. Although for him to achieve his goal the next 4 weeks could be some of the toughest games he ever coaches.

[Akum 2,660]

Don't give us this rubbish about tanking. Some people have become obsessed about trading and drafts. 1 player will not win us a premiership, however I group (ie team) will. We are starting to develop a group who are really learning to together. Even Geelong make mistakes. That 2nd half today was as good a game as you could wish to see.

Warnock was up forward to provide height and strength to stretch Richmond'sdefence (and he did).

Why are we so obsessed about it. Petterd, Bartram,Grimes,Cheney, Bennell,Jetta,Frawley, Dunn all proved that they are quality players in the making. We forget sometimes these kids are only 21 (if that) They faced one of the good midfields in the AFL (admittedly with Foley absent) and more than held their own so well done ,Petterd,Jones,Bartram and Jetta. If we do not get Scully, the sky is not going to fall in !!! When you look at Premiership teams ,there are a lot of "ördinary players" in those sides.

Mc Donald was what we expect of him, wholehearted !!!

The coaches are developing flexibility. Or else we will have a side of Fevolas who can only play one position providing everyone else puts it lace out to him, or else you sulk !!

Good post dimmy, I'm with you. I also agree that at this stage in a season, we're playing to gain something for next year rather than to get wins this year, and this would still be true if there was no such thing as a PP. But we still haven't sold our soul (which is what tanking is to me - trying to deliberately engineer a loss). FCS, we nearly won the thing, and only lost it because of a 50m kick after the siren. If McMahon had not goaled with his kick, the pro-tankers would be up in arms, saying that we had the chance to tank and we blew it, instead of rejoicing that we'd tanked! The team played to win and I'm so proud of them. We had 19 fit men at 3/4 time, then Riv got an ankle injury in the last quarter, and the boys showed heaps of character not to lie down.

But I'm also mightily relieved that they lost too. I take Jaded's point of view - the footy gods are starting to smile on us by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And I'm again going to have my cake & eat it - the fact that the team is developing this level of character makes it much more fertile territory for Scully & Trengove/Rohan/whoever to come into

Cousins, Deledio, Cotchin & Tambling is one of the better AFL midfields, at least on paper. And with our best midfielders out, the young guys did a great job to keep us in the game and then very nearly snatch it.

And I bet you that at some stage when we're a top team in the next 4 years, the move of Warnock or Frawley into the forward line will win us an important game against a top side. They definitely added bite to a forward line that has lacked it all season. We have plenty of good strong tall defenders, we found out today that some of them can cut it as forwards in an emergency.

There were a lot of positives to come out of this game. I'm still glad we didn't win, but it was not because of lack of effort by the boys.

[Akum 2,660]

Well..im rather impressed with ol' Dean and yet his best laid plans ( as oft are to do ) nearly came unstuck !! Just shows how inept the Toiges possibly are thatwe stil nearly won that !! and they won last wekk...wtf ???

Also shows that with all the experimentation in the world, there is no guarantee that we won't pick up an unexpected win if the other side is lousy enough.

DB has soared in my estimation. Everything in this game went right - he learnt a lot about a number of players, the team showed a massive amount of character to almost snatch it with the odds stacked against us (I thought it was only very good teams that get back to win games they should have lost - we came so close). But for all that, we lost and the PP's still intact. As I said, everything went right.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

By the way, it's a known fact that the umpires call time when THEY hear the siren, which can, at times, take ages to get from the source to the umpires ear.

We hear it instantly on the TV, but the umpire hears it often long enough after for a player to take the mark.

Further to that.

The AFL clarified the rule a few years ago, and again after Siren-gate in Launceston.

The is a misconception that the quarter ends when the umpire signals with his arm up. Not so. The quarter ends as soon as any one of the three umpires hears the siren.

[rpfc 28,483]

Good post dimmy, I'm with you. I also agree that at this stage in a season, we're playing to gain something for next year rather than to get wins this year, and this would still be true if there was no such thing as a PP. But we still haven't sold our soul (which is what tanking is to me - trying to deliberately engineer a loss). FCS, we nearly won the thing, and only lost it because of a 50m kick after the siren.

We tanked, we engineered a loss (however close) through selection (Sylvia - OUT, Newton - IN), injury sensitivity (Morton, Moloney, and McLean), and obtuse positional changes (Warnock and Frawley as FF and CHF). What the hell do you think tanking is?

If McMahon had not goaled with his kick, the pro-tankers would be up in arms, saying that we had the chance to tank and we blew it, instead of rejoicing that we'd tanked! The team played to win and I'm so proud of them. We had 19 fit men at 3/4 time, then Riv got an ankle injury in the last quarter, and the boys showed heaps of character not to lie down.

Not me. I have always said that I hoped DB did what he did today but that if the players still got up and won, and they nearly did - that fate was being unkind, and that no fault should be at the feet of Bailey.

But I'm also mightily relieved that they lost too. I take Jaded's point of view - the footy gods are starting to smile on us by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And I'm again going to have my cake & eat it - the fact that the team is developing this level of character makes it much more fertile territory for Scully & Trengove/Rohan/whoever to come into

Cousins, Deledio, Cotchin & Tambling is one of the better AFL midfields, at least on paper. And with our best midfielders out, the young guys did a great job to keep us in the game and then very nearly snatch it.

And I bet you that at some stage when we're a top team in the next 4 years, the move of Warnock or Frawley into the forward line will win us an important game against a top side. They definitely added bite to a forward line that has lacked it all season. We have plenty of good strong tall defenders, we found out today that some of them can cut it as forwards in an emergency.

There were a lot of positives to come out of this game. I'm still glad we didn't win, but it was not because of lack of effort by the boys.

???????

I don't know where to start here...

Richmond have a good midfield...

Warnock and Frawley as future forwards...

I guess sense was made with the reference to the development of the younger players but...

One final thing - Haven't we had disagreements over the past few weeks about tanking? And, considering you are OK with what was done and this is exactly what I had in mind, why have we been arguing?

I guess that is two final things, but I am interested...

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Doesn't any one do the player analysis anymore? Y'know, the three word thingy?

[Ryan Dee 140]

Doesn't any one do the player analysis anymore? Y'know, the three word thingy?

Hope not.

Pretty sure joeyboy does it, or something like that.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Mr Morton