Geelong Win Hypothetical

[Pipefitter 2,163]

Ok, this is a complete long shot but if we beat geelong this weekend would you pro-tankers still want to put the season to bed and lose every other game?

You have to remember that most young lists break out seasons have been kickstarted by a late season charge the year before (St. Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn).

I still think we are a year away from that happening but you just never know what winning confidence can do for a bunch of kids.

[IWAP 170]

I can see your point there, but remember Richmond won 8 out of their last 11 games last year. Now look at them.

[Pipefitter 2,163]

I can see your point there, but remember Richmond won 8 out of their last 11 games last year. Now look at them.

Thats richmond though.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

No.

I want priority picks and no amount of "miraculous" late-season wins will change my mind.

Even if given the choice between winning every game from now till the end of the season and making up numbers in the finals, or finishing last and getting picks 1 & 2, I'd choose the picks.

I'm sick of making up numbers and winning completely irrelevant games of football.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Definitely not.

Most young sides actually tire after a long season to date.

[Nasher 33,617]

If it happened the 4 wins dream becomes next to impossible. It still wouldn't change my outlook though.

Thankfully, it won't happen.

[H_T 3,049]

Call me selfish, tell me I am wrong. But i know one thing I want Tom Scully at Melbourne. He may not guarantee a Premiership, granted. But he will provide an advantage for Mfc over other sides in the future. Its like starting at 30-0 when serving for the set with him on your side. It wont guarantee a win but by jingo it will give you a head start. When will the Melbournefc get an elite midfielder if we miss Scully this year?

[Sir Why You Little 37,119]

Ok, this is a complete long shot but if we beat geelong this weekend would you pro-tankers still want to put the season to bed and lose every other game?

You have to remember that most young lists break out seasons have been kickstarted by a late season charge the year before (St. Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn).

I still think we are a year away from that happening but you just never know what winning confidence can do for a bunch of kids.

Whether we win games before the end of the season or get Draft picks it is ENTIRELY in the Hands of the Kids on our list Now.

They will determine the outcome-And they will have have to deal with it next year

It is out of our hands....

[rpfc 28,729]

Ok, this is a complete long shot but if we beat geelong this weekend would you pro-tankers still want to put the season to bed and lose every other game?

You have to remember that most young lists break out seasons have been kickstarted by a late season charge the year before (St. Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn).

I still think we are a year away from that happening but you just never know what winning confidence can do for a bunch of kids.

Of course, it changes the scenario: it means we are further along the rebuilding path than I thought.

BUT your last line about being a year away from this kind of a rally indicates that you yourself don't think we are there.

Hypotheticals are intriguing but hollow.

A bit like a win against Richmond...

[Nasher 33,617]

Call me selfish, tell me I am wrong. But i know one thing I want Tom Scully at Melbourne. He may not guarantee a Premiership, granted. But he will provide an advantage for Mfc over other sides in the future. Its like starting at 30-0 when serving for the set with him on your side. It wont guarantee a win but by jingo it will give you a head start. When will the Melbournefc get an elite midfielder if we miss Scully this year?

That's exactly what I reckon too HT. I hate all this talk of tanking and I feel sick at the thought of not doing everything possible to win. I don't see what the alternative is though. We're still short of an elite midfielder and I can't see a way of winning a flag without one, and I can't see how we're ever going to get one without this pick.

You can't guarantee the elite midfielder* will win you a premiership, but you can almost guarantee you won't win a premiership without him.

*By elite midfielder I don't mean Scully specifically, just any elite midfielder.

[old55 23,687]

That's exactly what I reckon too HT. I hate all this talk of tanking and I feel sick at the thought of not doing everything possible to win. I don't see what the alternative is though. We're still short of an elite midfielder and I can't see a way of winning a flag without one, and I can't see how we're ever going to get one without this pick.

You can't guarantee the elite midfielder* will win you a premiership, but you can almost guarantee you won't win a premiership without him.

*By elite midfielder I don't mean Scully specifically, just any elite midfielder.

It's a good analogy HT but I'd put it this way - we've got less resources than other clubs and a worse draw. The only advantage we've got, and it's fleeting, is the ability to get better personnel in. Currently we're starting 0-30 down every game. A better list will enable us to start 0-0 at least.

If we don't get better players in than other clubs then we'll never win a flag. "Scully" wont guarantee us a flag, but not getting him will guarantee that we wont win one. And it's only going to get harder for us with new teams with draft concessions and free agency. This is the last fuel stop for 20 years.

Edited July 14, 2009 by old55

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It's a good analogy HT but I'd put it this way - we've got less resources than other clubs and a worse draw. The only advantage we've got, and it's fleeting, is the ability to get better personnel in. Currently we're starting 0-30 down every game. A better list will enable us to start 0-0 at least.

If we don't get better players in than other clubs then we'll never win a flag. "Scully" wont guarantee us a flag, but not getting him will guarantee that we wont win one. And it's only going to get harder for us with new teams with draft concessions and free agency. This is the last fuel stop for 20 years.

Exactly right.

Whether we win games before the end of the season or get Draft picks it is ENTIRELY in the Hands of the Kids on our list Now.

They will determine the outcome-And they will have have to deal with it next year

It is out of our hands....

I would have thought the Football Dept should have a big influence on that outcome.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Ok, this is a complete long shot but if we beat geelong this weekend would you pro-tankers still want to put the season to bed and lose every other game?

You have to remember that most young lists break out seasons have been kickstarted by a late season charge the year before (St. Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn).

I still think we are a year away from that happening but you just never know what winning confidence can do for a bunch of kids.

No, I want the priority pick for the club & for me.

If we lose the priority pick, then I want the best available classy midfielder.

After that I want the best set of round by round picks we can get.

Next year I want to start to feel free to Barrack for wins & nothing but wins.

I still feel hollow to my core with disappointment & fear of shipwrecking our rebuild, & wake with dread of missed opportunities & a highJacked grief period of regrowth.

[donny williams no 25 0]

Exactly right.

What--you agree that not getting Scully means that we won't win a premiership?That one player is SO MUCH BETTER than anyone else that he would make that much difference. What rubbish!

I would have thought the Football Dept should have a big influence on that outcome.

How? Just spell it out in words of one syllable so that dumb-bums like me can follow it! Drop half the players?The young ones or the old ones? Tell the players not to try?

Read what Schwab has says and tell us he's wrong about a losing culture. I blieve he's dead right.

[Hannabal 4]

How? Just spell it out in words of one syllable so that dumb-bums like me can follow it! Drop half the players?The young ones or the old ones? Tell the players not to try?

Read what Schwab has says and tell us he's wrong about a losing culture. I blieve he's dead right.

The "losing culture" line that gets trotted out is the greatest furphy in sport. A winning culture happens when you've got the best players.

And yes, no-one expects the players to be giving anything less than 100%.

[Nasher 33,617]

What--you agree that not getting Scully means that we won't win a premiership?That one player is SO MUCH BETTER than anyone else that he would make that much difference. What rubbish!

It isn't rubbish, it's reality. Look at all the recent premiership teams in recent years. They all have one thing in common; at least one elite midfielder. Voss/Aker/Black. Hird. Ablett. Goodes. Cousins/Judd. It's an absolute must. It doesn't have to be Scully but it has to be someone -- but Scully is this year's elite mid and we're not going to get another opportunity to get one in future years.

How? Just spell it out in words of one syllable so that dumb-bums like me can follow it! Drop half the players?The young ones or the old ones? Tell the players not to try?

Read what Schwab has says and tell us he's wrong about a losing culture. I blieve he's dead right.

Rest core players during vital periods of the game. Davey or Bruce tearing the game apart? Sit them in the forward pocket or on the pine while the game is up for grabs. Jamar on fire, currently beating everyone in the ruck? Sit him on the bench too and give Martin an extended hitout. This has the added benefit of giving him practice when there's nothing on the line in terms of 4 points/finals.

Select players who have clearly demonstrated they are not good enough. Selecting PJ, Miller, Bartram and Newton -- all legitimate fringe players -- in future weeks is another good step.

Obviously telling the players not to try is not plausible and won't happen.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What--you agree that not getting Scully means that we won't win a premiership?That one player is SO MUCH BETTER than anyone else that he would make that much difference. What rubbish!

Re read and trying and think this time. Its not that hard

How? Just spell it out in words of one syllable so that dumb-bums like me can follow it! Drop half the players?The young ones or the old ones? Tell the players not to try?

Read what Schwab has says and tell us he's wrong about a losing culture. I blieve he's dead right.

Words of one syllable wont help you. And repeat the above direction. I sure you will do better this time if you are even the smallest bit creative. Take the challenge

BTW Hannibal sums it up in regard culture.

[Roost It 1,434]

"Scully" wont guarantee us a flag, but not getting him will guarantee that we wont win one.

I am in favour of the 4 wins policy but this statement is the single most ridiculous thing I have read on the topic. Who's to say that in 4 years time our pick at no. 4 in this draft becomes the elite midfielder we need, or even our pick at 20. Tom Scully is currently ahead of the pack no doubt but so was Luke Ball when Judd was taken at pick 3. Scully commited himself to football at 13, what's to say his body won't go the distance. He is not the be all and end all. Remember players like Grimes, Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta, Wonaeamirri,Petterd, possibly Mckenzie and Bail have all been recruited and 1 or 2 of them may also become elite. Sylvia may also climb there.

I think the club would be silly to win more than 4 games and in watching Sunday's game I thought Bailey coached us toward a loss, however the players wanted it and the Power most certainly didn't. What to do? Circumstance has given us a bountiful array of top 20 picks. Give them time to develop, you might be surprised. From where I sit, add, at worst, picks 4 and 20, this club has the players, it just needs the development and with our new facilities we may have a chance.

Tom Scully or bust? I don't think so.

[Rogue 585]

A win over Geelong wouldn't change my mind.

[old55 23,687]

I am in favour of the 4 wins policy but this statement is the single most ridiculous thing I have read on the topic.

Fine - let's hope we don't have to find out I am right.

[donny williams no 25 0]

Re read and trying and think this time. Its not that hard

Words of one syllable wont help you. And repeat the above direction. I sure you will do better this time if you are even the smallest bit creative. Take the challenge

BTW Hannibal sums it up in regard culture.

You arrogant dill! Don't sit there insulting people.

Old55 said "not getting him [scully] will guarantee that we won't win one [premiership]'

You replied --'exactly"

Really?

I have thought about it and my view is that the difference between Scully and the next best midfielder available is likely to be bugger-all. All the evidence points to that conclusion as, in any draft, there will be a number of great midfielders.

Another poster points out the value of gun mid-fielders in premiership teams and refers to Simon Black and his value to Brisbane.I agree, and Black was drafted at 30 something, Luke Power at 5 in the same draft

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I am in favour of the 4 wins policy but this statement is the single most ridiculous thing I have read on the topic. Who's to say that in 4 years time our pick at no. 4 in this draft becomes the elite midfielder we need, or even our pick at 20.

Tom Scully or bust? I don't think so.

its not a Tom Scully or bust issue.

The issue is whether we would be better off with Tom Scully than not having him notwithhstanding that picks 4 and 20 are good or not. Would we not be better with PP 1 in addition to picks 4 and 20?

Your favouring of the 4 wins policy should give a hint.

[Roost It 1,434]

its not a Tom Scully or bust issue.

The issue is whether we would be better off with Tom Scully than not having him notwithhstanding that picks 4 and 20 are good or not. Would we not be better with PP 1 in addition to picks 4 and 20?

Your favouring of the 4 wins policy should give a hint.

I was replying to a post that stated that we were guaranteed not to win a premiership without Tom Scully. Therefore it is a Tom Scully issue.

As you know I do think we would be better off with Tom Scully and another very high pick I just don't believe that we're screwed without it.

No need to be a smartarse, I'm not 12 years old.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Roost It

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I was replying to a post that stated that we were guaranteed not to win a premiership without Tom Scully. Therefore it is a Tom Scully issue.

As you know I do think we would be better off with Tom Scully and another very high pick I just don't believe that we're screwed without it.

No need to be a smartarse, I'm not 12 years old.

I think the point is that it going to be tough enough for MFC to win a premiership in the next 5 to 7 years anyway. There are so many aspects to AFL where MFC start well behind other Clubs eg finances, supporters, facilities etc. Even if we had all the draft picks that we wanted and used them correctly we are only just a chance of challenging with no certainties.

Its critical that we make the most of the opportunities before us. Scully is looking like a blue chip ball magnet and is critical for us to develop a capable midfield lead by elite players like Scully. We dont have them and no certainty to develop them woth what we have. Scully looks to be our best opportunity.

And if we dont get that right then our bare chance at challenging will become remote. And Old 55's comment has merit. Its not black and white as you would like to construe it.

[Roost It 1,434]

I think the point is that it going to be tough enough for MFC to win a premiership in the next 5 to 7 years anyway. There are so many aspects to AFL where MFC start well behind other Clubs eg finances, supporters, facilities etc. Even if we had all the draft picks that we wanted and used them correctly we are only just a chance of challenging with no certainties.

Its critical that we make the most of the opportunities before us. Scully is looking like a blue chip ball magnet and is critical for us to develop a capable midfield lead by elite players like Scully. We dont have them and no certainty to develop them woth what we have. Scully looks to be our best opportunity.

And if we dont get that right then our bare chance at challenging will become remote. And Old 55's comment has merit. Its not black and white as you would like to construe it.

It is actually Old 55's comment that see things as black and white. Yes Tom Scully is currently the recruiters favourite and he ticks almost all the boxes. But who's to say that pick 4 won't end up the superior midfielder. My point remains that to suggest we can't win a flag without Scully and pick 2/3 as opposed to just pick 4 is, in my opinion, seeing things too simply. As of next year our facilities will be first rate and our coaching team continues to grow. At this point in time, with the squad we will have at year's end it is more about development that it is about Tom Scully. I say this even though I don't think the club will win more than 4 games and I'm pretty sure they'll pick Tom Scully first up. We are arguing over a point that is most likely moot.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Roost It