List Management

[Number 2 13]

What a great win by the boys on Saturday.

Over the weekend I got to thinking that list management will make or break our football club in the future. We have and will have some great youngsters but the void could be players around the 21-25 mark.

Have a look at what I have worked up below and tell me what you think.

I know this thread is similar to others but I think it has a place on the board.

Below are the list of players that should help Melbourne make the next run at finals:

On the list: (youngest to oldest)

1. Jack Watts (18 years old)

2. Sam Blease

3. James Strauss

4. Jamie Bennell

5. Tom McNamara

6. Addam Maric

7. Neville Jetta

8. Cale Morton

9. Kyle Cheney

10. Jack Grimes (20 years old)

11. Austin Wonaeamirri

12. Liam Jurrah

13. James Frawley

14. Ricky Petterd

15. Rohan Bail

16. Colin Garland (21 years old)

17. Clint Bartram

18. Nathan Jones

19. Matthew Bate

20. Simon Buckley

21. Stefan Martin

22. John Meesen

23. Brock McLean (23 years old)

24. Colin Sylvia

25. Jared Rivers (25 years old)

26. Matt Warnock

27. Brent Moloney

28. Mark Jamar (26 years old)

29. Aaron Davey

30. Brad Green (28 years old)

Below are the players that I do not see as vital in a run to the next finals series

Off the list: (youngest to oldest)

1. Lynden Dunn

2. Michael Newton

3. Daniel Bell

4. Paul Johnson

5. Brad Miller

6. Paul Wheatley

7. Matty Whelan (30 years old)

8. Cameron Bruce

9. Russell Robertson (31 years old)

10. James McDonald (33 years old)

We will recruit up to 7 players <19 years of age and possibly lose 5 of the 10 I list above.

If Garland is in the middle age of the group that remains (listed above) and we add 7 players younger than him he will fall to the bottom third of the list. From my view I think this almost makes us too young if that can be possible.

I think in this years trade period we need to target two players in between the ages of Jared Rivers and Colin Garland. We will take two of the best kids in the land, if we can selectively trade to get a couple that suit our needs I think we can give the ultimate a shake by 2011. Sure 2011 is only 2 years away but the addition of a couple of handy players, the progression of what we have and the talent of two of the best youngsters in the land gives us hope.

So my question is: should we target these two players?

http://www.afc.com.au/players/playerprofil...50&typeid=2

[Not getting game time at Adelaide and looked the goods only a year ago.]

http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/players/p...09&typeid=2

[dropped to the reserves in round 13, ???]

Add them to our mix and see what you think.

I'm keen for some feedback here boys.

Go Dees!

[biggestred 5,140]

no, go for youth and only youth.

it will mean we have a core group of players between 18-23, which we need, because when they get to 24-29 in 6 years time, they will be absoulte guns, having played with eachother for 6 years.

this is not a 2011 team, its a 2015 team. wakey wakey

[H_T 3,049]

Over the weekend I got to thinking that list management will make or break our football club in the future. We have and will have some great youngsters but the void could be players around the 21-25 mark.

...

...

If Garland is in the middle age of the group that remains (listed above) and we add 7 players younger than him he will fall to the bottom third of the list. From my view I think this almost makes us too young if that can be possible.

If we add 7 players younger than Garland to the list, and the likes of McDonald, Roberston, Whelan, PJ, Bell, Buckley and one other (Wheatley or Bail) go, of course we will have a younger list.

How young is too young by the way?

At least this way - through youth - we will be able to determine by replenishing the list, other avenues to a much better list than one which would appear 'much the same'.

When you're a side that has won 5 of it's last 36 games....and you've already well into started rebuilding through youth & developing......I'd prefer they keep going with this blueprint. If some players become available through trade that are worthwhile for our current list, fine. They don't necessarily have to be between the ages of Garland & Rivers.

Getting someone like Steven Salopek (who has played 90 + games) wouldn't be improving the list from my point of view. Others may beg to differ. But in 5 years time when the side is well on the up, he will be reaching the end of his best footy. And what exactly is his best footy? It's not outstanding.

[Number 2 13]

thanks High Tower, you make a valid point.

I guess my question is, can we afford to go with extreme youth or do we have to trade for some talent now?

I rate Salopek and Griffen and I worry if we just pick kids that we will remain in a hole for another 2 years.

what I am trying to get is a mix, I think successful sides have a mix of youth and experience.

I am concerned if we go for youth and do not improve significantly that we could wind up low on the ladder again. My view is that being low on the ladder next season provides no benefit due the Gold Coast. If we go for a mix of youth and players like Salopek and Griffen then we have a balanced list that can achieve sooner.

[H_T 3,049]

thanks High Tower, you make a valid point.

I guess my question is, can we afford to go with extreme youth or do we have to trade for some talent now?

I rate Salopek and Griffen and I worry if we just pick kids that we will remain in a hole for another 2 years.

what I am trying to get is a mix, I think successful sides have a mix of youth and experience.

I am concerned if we go for youth and do not improve significantly that we could wind up low on the ladder again. My view is that being low on the ladder next season provides no benefit due the Gold Coast. If we go for a mix of youth and players like Salopek and Griffen then we have a balanced list that can achieve sooner.

In terms of a balance list, you need to identify where our list has holes in it. Some would say it looks like a slice of swiss cheese at present.

I think we are all of the opinion that our midfield will be operated on at the end of year. Talk of Tom Scully is just mouth watering. Another midfielder could well be what the club has in mind, despite earlier spruiking a KPF is on the shopping list.

I think Melbourne supporters would feel we still need another presence down forward. With Robbo's career coming to a close, the failure of Newton to make the most of his opportunities to date, the ever frustration with Miller and to a lesser degree Bate. We need someone else to take up the slack for the future with Watts, Jurrah and Co.

So, I still think a KPF may still be on the shopping list, how quick we fill this void is the question. Through the draft/pre-season draft or trade....? Will it be filled at the end of this year, or left until next year when Gold Coast come in.

Whichever way, Melbournefc needs to be vigilant and very smart. This could be the 'key ingredient' to create the right chemistry or synergy if you like for the Melbournfc to go faaarrrr into September in a few years time.

In my opinion we may even unearth something in Martin or even Garland up forward. Unless something really good pokes its head up come draft/pre-season draft time this year, we concentrate on drafting midfielders this year, then I would be inclined to wait another 12 months - see how Martin/Garland progress as forward options - then see when Gold Coast come in, see if we can draft or trade for a good pick/player (KPP) prospect then.

IMO anyone in the 18 to 23 year bracket so they can mature/grow with the likes of Grimes, Watts, Morton, Jurrah, Blease, Strauss, Frawley, Maric, Wonaeamirri, etc.

[JACKATTACK 17]

I like your thinking number 2. I can't say that I would be particularly excited about picking up said players, but I do think a more mature player in whatever position is worth a look. And by more mature I mean 26 max.

I would even consider trading away a pick (perhaps even our second pick) if the right player was interested, would have to be a fair gun though.

[Yze_Magic 3]

Would gladly give up pick 18 or 35 for Steven Salopek.

he woll be 24 at the start of next season, and thats not a bad age.

Averaging 24 touches a game this year, and was 6th in Ports best and fairest last season despite missing 7 games.

Hes well and truly a veteran now, and we cant have a list full of teenagers.

[rpfc 28,779]

I'm not certain Salopek was dropped. He may have had a niggle or something. Anyway, he is highly rated by the Power and I believe he re-signed last year.

We might get someone in the PSD, but trading picks?

We should be looking to get into the top 20 picks, not out of it.

[H_T 3,049]

We should be looking to get into the top 20 picks, not out of it.

Correct.

[Deeoldfart 8,065]

............................................. We might get someone in the PSD, but trading picks?

We should be looking to get into the top 20 picks, not out of it.

Definitely. No exceptions!

[Carn dees 108]

Would gladly give up pick 18 or 35 for Steven Salopek.

he woll be 24 at the start of next season, and thats not a bad age.

Averaging 24 touches a game this year, and was 6th in Ports best and fairest last season despite missing 7 games.

Hes well and truly a veteran now, and we cant have a list full of teenagers.

Agree i really rate salopek, doubt theyd give him away though.

[dee-luded 2,959]

No trading our picks, this only gambles our medium term for a potential quick gain. This is partly why we are in this deep hole now, due inpart to trading for experience without the required class to underpin the strategy.

As well we are feeling the strain of missed draft picks who would be in their Mid twenties now.

Draft picks are important & the culture amongst the young guns growing together is irreplaceable.

Stay the Course. Stick with Youth.

Edited July 6, 2009 by dee-luded

[Dexter23 2]

Selopek is a great player, smart footballer. Think his from Narre Warren (Casey.....), could be a good signing. Thinking that we could have a few senior players leaving us its not a bad idea, experience, class and leadership. I worry that losing too many of our older players and not having enough experience to still "compete".. Just a thought. I believe he will be in the right age bracket to warrant targeting him. Not sure whether it would be worth trading picks, not yet... Obviously we have to wait until Trade time, its a long way away, Anything could happen. "Bailey" would be the best to ask having just come from there!!! Interesting........

[Roost It 1,434]

Selopek is a great player, smart footballer. Think his from Narre Warren (Casey.....), could be a good signing. Thinking that we could have a few senior players leaving us its not a bad idea, experience, class and leadership. I worry that losing too many of our older players and not having enough experience to still "compete".. Just a thought. I believe he will be in the right age bracket to warrant targeting him. Not sure whether it would be worth trading picks, not yet... Obviously we have to wait until Trade time, its a long way away, Anything could happen. "Bailey" would be the best to ask having just come from there!!! Interesting........

He comes in the PSD or not at all. Picks inside inside the top 20 are worth more than gold this year. I actually don't see we he fits in our planning.

[Ryan Dee 140]

Would gladly give up pick 18 or 35 for Steven Salopek.

he woll be 24 at the start of next season, and thats not a bad age.

Averaging 24 touches a game this year, and was 6th in Ports best and fairest last season despite missing 7 games.

Hes well and truly a veteran now, and we cant have a list full of teenagers.

Why would port give him up? and for picks 18 and 35 in what is a so called shallow draft.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Mr Morton

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Nah, if anyone should be trading for picks it would be us.

[Fat Tony 5,273]

We could get a pretty good player if we put pick 18 on the table given draft picks are worth 'gold' this year. We need to remember that the talent in the draft this year is pretty thin after the top few picks.

I also think we can learn something from how well the recent Farren Ray, Scott Thompson and Darren Jolley trades have worked out for their respective clubs. This is the type of player I think we should be looking to target. (i.e. 20 to 25) I know this type of trade can work the other way (such as with Cameron Wood and Fergus Watts) but the chances of picking a top liner with pick 18 are pretty low anyway.

Draft picks are still very much a lottery despite how much you hear that recruiting has improved. For example, look through the 2006 draft and you will see that around half the players are yet to really establish themselves as 'best 22' AFL players. While you might get a Joel Selwood at 7, you could easily get a Mitchell Thorp or a Ben Reid.

I would take a 24 year Salopek over almost all of the players taken in the first round after Selwood at 7. And 2006 was considered to be a 'bumper' draft.

2006 Draft

1 Bryce Gibbs (Carlton)

2 Scott Gumbleton (Essendon)

3 Lachlan Hansen (Kangaroos)

4 Matthew Leuenberger (Brisbane)

5 Travis Boak (Port Adelaide)

6 Mitchell Thorp (Hawthorn)

7 Joel Selwood (Geelong)

8 Ben Reid (Collingwood)

9 David Armitage (St Kilda)

10 Nathan Brown (Collingwood)

11 Andrejs Everitt (Western Bulldogs)

12 James Frawley (Melbourne)

13 Jack Riewoldt (Richmond)

14 James Sellar (Adelaide)

15 Daniel O'Keefe (Sydney)

16 Mitchell Brown (West Coast)

[Guest]

I also think we can learn something from how well the recent Farren Ray, Scott Thompson and Darren Jolley trades have worked out for their respective clubs.

The difference is that all these players came into teams that were near the top of the ladder with a solid group of experienced players. It would not neccesarily be the same if Melbourne traded for a player like Farren Ray. I also think that having a lot of players <23 means that they will all peak at the same time, giving us the best chance of winning a premiership. I don't think drafting seven 18 yo's is a problem but that doesn't mean that we won't trade for an established player.

[Fat Tony 5,273]

I also don't have an issue with us having a lot of kids on the list given where we are at. Its just that history tells us that the chance of picking a good player is not that much higher with a late first round pick than a pick at the end of the draft. As such I think picks 5-40 are currently highly overvalued by recruiters/clubs and that, where possible, they should be traded away for young talented underperforming players or interstate players that want to come back to live in Melbourne.

While Melbourne may not have got the same results if we had have picked up Farren Ray this year, I think he will be a good player for at least five more years. I think St Kilda got a steal for only losing 17 spots in the draft (31 to 48).

[Redleg 41,475]

I would take a 24 year Salopek over almost all of the players taken in the first round after Selwood at 7. And 2006 was considered to be a 'bumper' draft.

2006 Draft

1 Bryce Gibbs (Carlton)

2 Scott Gumbleton (Essendon)

3 Lachlan Hansen (Kangaroos)

4 Matthew Leuenberger (Brisbane)

5 Travis Boak (Port Adelaide)

6 Mitchell Thorp (Hawthorn)

7 Joel Selwood (Geelong)

8 Ben Reid (Collingwood)

9 David Armitage (St Kilda)

10 Nathan Brown (Collingwood)

11 Andrejs Everitt (Western Bulldogs)

12 James Frawley (Melbourne)

13 Jack Riewoldt (Richmond)

14 James Sellar (Adelaide)

15 Daniel O'Keefe (Sydney)

16 Mitchell Brown (West Coast)

I would be very happy if number 13 walked out on his club and came to us via the PSD or for a reduced trade because of our "hopefully" first pick in the PSD.

[H_T 3,049]

I would be very happy if number 13 walked out on his club and came to us via the PSD or for a reduced trade because of our "hopefully" first pick in the PSD.

I'm hoping you know something Redleg.... it sounds enticing!

[Redleg 41,475]

I'm hoping you know something Redleg.... it sounds enticing!

As Sergeant Schultz in Hogan's Heroes would say, " I know nothing".

If I did know something confidential, I certainly wouldn't post it.

He would be a nice pick up though.

[kemp 0]

there could be a clean out of richmonds forwards with a new coach and if we are prepared to throw away a second round pick, we could do a lot worse. Then again, maybe we could just give Newton one more chance. Its not like he's solely responsible for all our losses. C'mon Newts, a summer of goalkicking practice!

[Yze_Magic 3]

Jack Riewoldt?

Have you people lost your mind?

The kid is average at best.

Doesn't kick goals, which is sort of important for a key forward.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

there could be a clean out of richmonds forwards with a new coach and if we are prepared to throw away a second round pick, we could do a lot worse. Then again, maybe we could just give Newton one more chance. Its not like he's solely responsible for all our losses. C'mon Newts, a summer of goalkicking practice!

You are right there.

Possible:

Richo - Retire - No

Brown - Retire - No

Schultz - Delist - No

Pettifer- Delist - No

Riewoldt is a must keep for the Tigers