Sick of everything

[G'borough Demon 0]

Have you only watched one match this year?

Not only was Davey still alright last night, but his move to half-back has seen him reach form that has some talking of an All-Australian berth. He is getting a lot more of the ball than he did last year in the forward line, and we're making the most of his wonderful kicking ability.

He hasn't backed the 'wrong donkeys', he's backed the only players he's got. He's given players like Bell, Newton, Dunn etc. plenty of matches to prove themselves, and they haven't, so we've got a heck of a lot of youth in at the moment.

Bailey's true test will come next year. If we can't get 8-10 wins next year his chances of coaching in 2011 will be shot.

Agreed, Davey at half-back has brought him into the games more this year but clearly we are not making the most of his kicking ability. We need him delivering the ball into the forward 50 where he can hurt teams. His kicking from half-back hardly gets us into the opponents half where we turn the ball over most. His position at half-back is also now too predictable, the pies and dons gave him much less time on the ball which made it hard for him to work his magic.

[Slartibartfast 17,262]

Oh and please let's not generalise all Gen Y's as being impatient. Some of us can actually see the value in building for long term success.

How can you "generalize" all??

It's a generalization Jaded, meaning a majority or a characteristic. Of course there will be exceptions and of course some will have other characteristics.

[G'borough Demon 0]

I smell a troll...

Why is it a wonder when the worst team in the AFL loses games and looks awful at times?

I don't know whether Bailey can coach, he hasn't had the cattle to show us.

He's developing the cattle and hopefully next year will provide steeper improvement, but do NOT tell me that we haven't shown more this year than last. I went to about 15 games last year and there is little comparison, other than wins and losses.

And that 'dead wood' you are refering to? How is that Bailey's fault? Who, of the last two drafts, are dead wood?

Your nose must be too close to your back end....

Agreed the workrate improved in the early games but that is dropping again through lack of game plan and confidence. The "cattle" we have cannot be blamed for lack of game plan. We have a young side but so do other teams, if your good enough your old enough in my eyes. A coach earns his money by making the individuals a team. Unfortunately Bailey dont seem to have the minerals!

[Jaded No More 68,907]

It is very predictable though having Davey run behind to receive the amount of handball he does as the designated kicker. It's almost becoming a farce because it's slowing down play. Geelong move the ball quicker than any other team. Imagine them relying on a designated kicker as much as we do. How much would it kill their instinct and slow them down ? And yes, I know we're not Geelong, but the "give it to Davey at all costs" plan is at its used by date already, imo.

Time for a bit of a plan B.

It is predictable and it shows that we have no faith in anyone else to use the footy right now.

I would like to see Bennell, Grimes, Sylvia and in the future Strauss all used to drive the ball forward.

Obviously a lack of midfield polish is killing us. But what's new?

[titan_uranus 25,014]

It is very predictable though having Davey run behind to receive the amount of handball he does as the designated kicker. It's almost becoming a farce because it's slowing down play. Geelong move the ball quicker than any other team. Imagine them relying on a designated kicker as much as we do. How much would it kill their instinct and slow them down ? And yes, I know we're not Geelong, but the "give it to Davey at all costs" plan is at its used by date already, imo.

Time for a bit of a plan B.

It is predictable and it shows that we have no faith in anyone else to use the footy right now.

I would like to see Bennell, Grimes, Sylvia and in the future Strauss all used to drive the ball forward.

Obviously a lack of midfield polish is killing us. But what's new?

Agree on all points here. Strauss might well be the long term answer. Strauss and Davey on the half-back flanks, each one able to deliver the ball beautifully by foot.

Short term answer could be Bennell (but he'll have to kick better than he did last night) or Grimes (ditto). But the true problem is that McLean, Jones, Moloney, Bruce and McDonald aren't reliable enough by foot, which makes them less appealing options.

[Jaded No More 68,907]

But the true problem is that McLean, Jones, Moloney, Bruce and McDonald aren't reliable enough by foot, which makes them less appealing options.

Bruce and McDonald are irrelevant, as both will be gone soon.

Get some quality around McLean, Jones and Moloney, and let them do what they do best, get hands on the ball and deliver to outside midfielders.

After years of being horrible at the clearances, we have actually improved this year (without a ruckman too). The stats will show that we had 3 less clearances last night, but anyone who watched the game will know that getting first hands on the ball is vastly different to using the ball to your advantage. So often we win the ball straight up, and lose it, because we have nobody to give it to.

This is why we need to draft quality ball- users who can complement the ball-getters that we already have.

Of course Blease and Strauss will hopefully be part of this solution, and I hope that Grimes and Bennell will as well. But Scully will do nicely, especially since he can win his own ball (which I really hope both Grimes and Blease can learn to do too).

[Rogue 585]

Good post.

[DaveyJones'sLocker 647]

What is that taste in my mouth ?

Carlton natural blonde?

HAHAHA YOU ARE AN IDIOT

ITS HIS SECOND GAME YOU MORON

GOD, there are some stupid people around here.

Jack Watts has been disapointing in his first 2 games... dont be affraid to admit it

my question simply asks do we think he will be great or just hope?

dont be so impatient.

FFS wait till the end of next year and if we have not improved then we should get a new coach, by improved i dont mean play finals but just show more fluent ball movement, skills be better, bodies be stronger, structure etc

i reckon we should try and get garry lyon as our forward coach and todd viney as our mids coach

end of next year, if we are not in the top 12 clubs

somthing is seriously wrong ...

Bruce and McDonald are irrelevant, as both will be gone soon.

how soon ? please explain

[Carn dees 108]

Jack Watts has been disapointing in his first 2 games... dont be affraid to admit it

my question simply asks do we think he will be great or just hope?

We know he will be a champion. Just dont expect it sooner rather than later.

What we can expect is glimpses of class.

[Nasher 33,613]

How can you "generalize" all??

It's a generalization Jaded, meaning a majority or a characteristic. Of course there will be exceptions and of course some will have other characteristics.

You're nit picking a bit there -- replace the word 'generalize' with 'stereotype' and Jaded's post makes sense.

Pedantic semantics aside, sometimes generalizations have exceptions, and sometimes they are just plain wrong.

I also don't think anyone of any generation likes or wants to be stereotyped. Do you?

[Jarka 767]

You're nit picking a bit there -- replace the word 'generalize' with 'stereotype' and Jaded's post makes sense.

Pedantic semantics aside, sometimes generalizations have exceptions, and sometimes they are just plain wrong.

I also don't think anyone of any generation likes or wants to be stereotyped. Do you?

Perhaps not but it's a fair enough generalisation. Gen Y has demonstrated a very real attitude of impatience. Compare the average debt to previous generations at the same age and the results are alarming. Personal loans, credit cards, asset finance, gen Y is well known in the finance industry for spending now and saving, well...never. 'Why bother saving when you can have it now' is a typical attitude and something that the major banks have relied on to continue to post huge profits even in these hard times.

[Real Demon 232]

But I digress. Watts will be a gem of a footballer. If you can't see it now that's ok, but the player you witness today you won't recognise in 3-5 years time.

I'm more concerned by our skill level and woeful midfield. More than ever I think we need 2 mids with whatever top 4 picks we receive at year's end. I've got no problem with Butcher if 'he's' (or should I say "his" so that some understand me) a clear standout, as top quality kpps are as rare as hen's teeth, but if there's any doubt I'd go with a mid to compliment Scully. I think we have the worst midfield I've ever seen.

Some genuine common sense at last!

Watts will be a gem, make no mistake about it!

And Hannabal, you are spot on with the midfield..........our ability to butcher the footy by foot is without compare in the AFL at present.

We need some genuine class in the midfield, and need it fast, otherwise it will make no difference who we have up forward.

I rate the Bombers midfield as junk, and they clearly outclassed our mids last night.

[timD 994]

Jarka, who taught them that attitude? Maybe their parents and the generation of advertising execs that came before them - and corporate execs who made millsions spending money they did not have and until recently did not know that they could not afford? The generation game is simplisitic rubbish.

Here is another example: if gen y kids get responsible (as is currently socially constructed) in their 30's, does it mean that they cannot delay gratification but somehow learnt to (which destroys the gen theory) or that a magical wand was waved?

[Jarka 767]

Jarka, who taught them that attitude? Maybe their parents and the generation of advertising execs that came before them - and corporate execs who made millsions spending money they did not have and until recently did not know that they could not afford? The generation game is simplisitic rubbish.

Here is another example: if gen y kids get responsible (as is currently socially constructed) in their 30's, does it mean that they cannot delay gratification but somehow learnt to (which destroys the gen theory) or that a magical wand was waved?

Actually gen y have demonstrated the exact opposite. In the lending industry it's been their generation who have pushed the market to bring out new home lending products. Instead of borrowing to 80% or 85%, which up untill now has been the norm, they've almost been solely responsible for introduction of new products that allow 95% lending of the value of the property. This is even with the increase in the value of the first home owners grant. Some of the major banks have even buckled further and introduced a 100% loan meaning no valid savings at all, the fhog goes into the government charges. Generally they borrow to the maximum of their capacity to service their debt with no thought to the future and what will happen when the rates go up or if they get into trouble and the value of the ppty goes down meaning their loan is more than what the house is worth. Added to this the standard credit card from all of the major lenders (normally max'd out), store cards and a motor vehicle loan.

As to who taught them? My guess is a combination of media, great marketing by the big companies and hollywood. Kids now are encouraged to get what they want now, why save when it's so fuckign easy to ring up and get a credit card with a $20k limit? Most kids no longer save because their spare cash goes into their mobile phone bill and ipod downloads. Our society is now about instant gratification, who gives a [censored] about the future.

[Guest sticksmorton]

Jack Watts has been disapointing in his first 2 games... dont be affraid to admit it

my question simply asks do we think he will be great or just hope?

His first two games have not been disapointing, i dont know what you were expecting of him in his first two games? amuse me and tell me?

For the record he is averaging a goal a game thats not bad!

[bush demon 2,039]

Wow Warren !

You must have creamed your dacks when you spotted this. One of your better posts. No, in fact, your best post.

Now, back under that rock.

Are you complimenting Warren, Hannabal? You to/too/two make a good complement.

PS my favourite grammatical gripe is when gen y'ers (or whoever) opine that "so and so would 'of' been a good player" etc instead of 'would have'.

Class dismissed.

[Guest fatty]

How can you "generalize" all??

It's a generalization Jaded, meaning a majority or a characteristic. Of course there will be exceptions and of course some will have other characteristics.

All generalisations are bad.

[Rogue 585]

All generalisations are bad.

:D

[Guest fatty]

Wow Warren !

You must have creamed your dacks when you spotted this. One of your better posts. No, in fact, your best post.

Now, back under that rock.

I think it was more a misunderstanding of English grammar rather than a spelling error.

Never mind. I'm glad you're helping out the kids with your insurmountable knowledge.

BTW, 2010 is far too early to judge Bailey. I'm starting to dread next year.

[rpfc 28,387]

Your nose must be too close to your back end....

Agreed the workrate improved in the early games but that is dropping again through lack of game plan and confidence. The "cattle" we have cannot be blamed for lack of game plan. We have a young side but so do other teams, if your good enough your old enough in my eyes. A coach earns his money by making the individuals a team. Unfortunately Bailey dont seem to have the minerals!

Well I certainly am smelling some sh!t.

Lack of a gameplan...

As I said in an earlier post - BACK IT UP!

Don't just insult me and tell me there is no gameplan, explain why you think that. All you have mentioned is that Bailey has a stale "hard working" meme, that he doesn't engender passion, and that Davey is too predictable as the bloke "quarterbacking" us off half back.

THE GAMEPLAN

The gameplan, as I see it, is based around quick movement through the corridor with a set up kick to half back as several mids and HBF's stream forward with sharing (and risky) handballs through the defensive corridor and deliver, preferably, a short kick to approx. 60-70 and then have lead-up forwards meet the ball. In the event of a crowded HF line the mids should continue their run and provide a handball option for the player with the ball 70 out and deliver to the top of the square over the top of the flood.

This gameplan requires a willingness to run a marathon every week if you are a mid, and have good-to-exceptional handballing skills for all players streaming off HB. Forwards need to be able to double-lead, or triple-lead, as they may lead for a kick that might be a lateral handball instead and they must be able to adjust.

I believe this to be similar to how Geelong move the football and requries a demanding skill-set that many are having trouble with, although some are improving remarkably (Moloney's handballing would be an example). Many say that you have to play the gamestyle that suits your players, but why? They should adjust to the coach, if he thinks that is the best chance of a flag, you change your style, work hard and be damn grateful for the opportunity to play for this great club.

That is my read on what the MFC has tried to do throughout the last two years, if anyone disagrees, please discuss. If anyone wants to criticise, please point out what would be a better way.

[Little Goffy 14,524]

Perhaps not but it's a fair enough generalisation. Gen Y has demonstrated a very real attitude of impatience. Compare the average debt to previous generations at the same age and the results are alarming. Personal loans, credit cards, asset finance, gen Y is well known in the finance industry for spending now and saving, well...never. 'Why bother saving when you can have it now' is a typical attitude and something that the major banks have relied on to continue to post huge profits even in these hard times.

Over the last couple of decades there has been a fundamental change in what 'savings' are - the 'Gen Y' version of savings is in a sense intellectual property. Because better qualifications, skill acquisition, a diverse and interesting resume and even 'extra-curricular activities' make such a massive difference to personal income potential in the 'information-driven economy', the best form of saving for the future isn't cash at all!

Meanwhile, the disposable income difference between what you can typically earn early in your career and what you can earn when you've developed your skills, added an extra qualification and at some point got your 'break' is so great that what you might have been able to save in five years before the gap is no more than what you could save in two years after the gap.

So the summary - younger people appear irresponsible and impatient to older people because the fundamental ways of being responsible have changed. For younger people the most important thing for planning for the future is to do as many things as possible as soon as possible. At the same time, traditional saving for a house deposit appears a futile effort given that house prices have, for fifteen years now, gone up faster than a reasonable person on a moderate income could hope to save.

I guess one way to illustrate it is, if a 19 year old said to their parents 'I don't need to study because I'm going to work at the car factory for the next forty-five years, gradually save for a deposit and settle down to raise a family', the parents would be genuinely worried about the kid's future; if that job goes, they and their family are stuffed, possibly for generations to come!

I'd like to be clear that this is not something the older generations 'did' to the younger - we all know the unemployment 'scrap heap' that so many people found themselves on as the economy shifted like this, and as so many stable jobs (textiles, manufacturing etc.) evaporated they were left with no transferable skills to take into a new career. As the economy changed, many of the older generation bore the worst possible impact of what the younger generation are now structuring their lives/careers to avoid.

This also partly explains the level of workplace conflict between generations - for the older generation there is much more of a cultural emphasis on stability and development within a role, so when a younger colleague is putting pressure on them to 'move on', it is undertansably seen as an attempt to usurp the job and kick the incumbent out. But for the younger worker the goal is almost a kind of rotation - the idea being that they'll get a go at this role, add it to their resume and then target another step - and not necessarily a liner promotion. From their perspective, the older colleague is bordering on being irresponsible themselves, by sticking in a rut and limiting their own 'personal growth opportunities'. They really do mean it when they say indelicate things like 'don't you think it's time you went somewhere else?'.

For the record, my age puts me right on the cusp of generations, and I can say without doubt that I don't belong in any of them! But then again, neither do most people.

I hope this has helped shed some light on why the different generation's annoy eachother so much.

[45HG 1,539]

I find it narrow minded, jaded (pardon the double relationship) and conceited to claim such an arrogance above a different generation, especially when the one perpetuating the slight comes from a generation with such slender differences - whose generation probably instigated the need for immediate reward and who feel than generalisations can be justified on the basis of "experience." To make a generalisation, anyone born before 1987 are impatient, narrow minded supporters based on the fact that my fiancee's father claimed after 3 quarters jack watts was "not a first round pick" and also stated, midway through last year, that Bailey couldn't coach and that we were useless

[rodent killer 0]

first of all seriously no biest but umpires WTF?

cheney tackle on monfries? plus moloney tackle on prismall in first quarter how can they possibly be given high also moloney holding the balll second qrt 7 min?! just a few of many!

its time for jeff giechen to step down the umpiring has been horrible all season!

jack watts ... looks not so great i know his young but every melbourne supporter knows this! do we think he will be great or hope he will be great?

we have been at the bottom for 2 years... almost 3 when are we going to improve ? im sick of losing i dont care wat draft picks we get!

what do we have to look forward to? when willl we start winning?

look l'm am far and away an umpire appreciator, l think its a hard job but we were MOOYDERD in the first quarter.

[Hannabal 4]

Even though I seem to have instigated this crap, why don't you take your 'generalisations' to the "General Board".

And Fats stuck his head up. How unusual. But here's the deal, Fat, 2010 is Bailey's third year and it certainly won't be too early to judge his performance. No-one I know will be expecting Finals, but there will be tangible determinators that can be measured for improvement.

Now, back in that hole with Warren.

[Jarka 767]

I hope this has helped shed some light on why the different generation's annoy eachother so much.

I'm sorry if you got the impression that gen y annoys me, because they don't. They help me keep my job because I'm in finance

And sorry H, that will be my last post on the topic