The biggest turnover, surely

[youami 54]

Has there been a bigger turnover of players in terms of games played over a 3 year period? Since Dean Bailey took over from Neale Daniher at the end of 2007 he has made/making some changes.

2007

Pickett (204)

Bizzell (165)

Johnstone (160)

Brown (146)

Ward (136)

Godfrey (105)

Ferguson (47)

Neville (0)

Total Games – 963

2008

Neitz (306)

Yze (271)

White (268)

Holland (191)

Carroll (71)

C.Johnson (31)

Bode (9)

Weetra (2)

Total Games - 1149

2009 – Potentially (and with the point of getting the total games lost to 3000 in 3 years. All games in brackets are a rough guess of what they’ll be at round 22 2009)

McDonald (235)

Robertson (230)

Whelan (150)

Wheatley (140)

Bell (65)

P.Johnson (60)

Buckley (21)

Total Games – 901

In 3 years we’ve lost roughly 3000 games of experience, to put that in some context, our list at the moment has 2307 games of experience, and that includes all of the 2009 class above, you’d imagine it will be below 2000 games at the end of this year.

This is the reason we are a long way off, all we can do is get games into our young blokes and hope to fast track them, we must all wait patiently in the interim.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Interesting list.

To be fair Pickett and N Brown retired 2007 and players like Neitz, Yze and White were finished as AFL footballers well before their contracts expired. In the case of the major 2009 departures, the same could be said.

But it does highlight with some of the peripheral names listed that there was an air of quantity over quality.

[praha 11,253]

Quite a list. No doubt had Daniher stayed on, all of Johnstone, Ward, Godfrey, Ferguson, Neville, Yze, White, Carroll, Bode and Weetra would all still be on the list and playing.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

To be fair Pickett and N Brown retired 2007

As did Bizzell.

I was actually thinking of this the other day and I believe that no matter who got the coaching job at Melbourne, most if not all of those would players would still have gone.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Interesting way of looking at it.

I would like to see how a stat like this correlates with form over a long period of time, and do it for all teams. There would be chicken or egg problems (which came first) with the result but still be interesting. Probably take a long time to sort through the data.

[Guest hangon007]

Quite a list. No doubt had Daniher stayed on, all of Johnstone, Ward, Godfrey, Ferguson, Neville, Yze, White, Carroll, Bode and Weetra would all still be on the list and playing.

Are you sure your not a closet Tigers man? That the sort of thing their supporters would suggest.

[Toad33 57]

Interesting list.

To be fair Pickett and N Brown retired 2007 and players like Neitz, Yze and White were finished as AFL footballers well before their contracts expired. In the case of the major 2009 departures, the same could be said.

But it does highlight with some of the peripheral names listed that there was an air of quantity over quality.

Clearly you have NO understanding of what 'experience' is, or counts for.

Why do you think coaches want to get games into young players? To get them SOME experience!. I am sure you can work out the rest.

I am not by any stretch of the imagination saying those players should have been playing in 2008, but you have to acknowlegde that with them goes a huge amount of experience, self belief (which comes from experience) and ability.

The challenge now for DB is to build those numbers back up BUT do it over a wider base of players so we are not relying on too few again in the future.

Go Dees - Building for the Future

[Slartibartfast 18,009]

Good post.

To put it in perspective the total games played by our list at the beginning of 2009 was 2078, the least in the league. The next lowest was Freo on 2220.

The possible loss this year of another 900 games takes about 40% of our lists experience and will leave us with something in the order of 1700 games experience (a list plays 484 games during a H&A season) . At the top end is Sydney with 3510, Saints with 2915 and Geelong 3138.

Games are one indicator of a lists strength. The others are the fitness of the list (all clubs that have won a flag since 1999 have had 18 or more players play 19 games or more in the H&A season) and of course talent.

But not all is lost. Hawthorn only had 2240 games experience on their list at the beginning of this year. They had a great run with injury last year and some superstars.

[H_T 3,049]

Good post.

To put it in perspective the total games played by our list at the beginning of 2009 was 2078, the least in the league. The next lowest was Freo on 2220.

The possible loss this year of another 900 games takes about 40% of our lists experience and will leave us with something in the order of 1700 games experience (a list plays 484 games during a H&A season) . At the top end is Sydney with 3510, Saints with 2915 and Geelong 3138.

Games are one indicator of a lists strength. The others are the fitness of the list (all clubs that have won a flag since 1999 have had 18 or more players play 19 games or more in the H&A season) and of course talent.

But not all is lost. Hawthorn only had 2240 games experience on their list at the beginning of this year. They had a great run with injury last year and some superstars.

Good post Fan. Do you have all clubs total games played for the start of 2009 handy? It would be interesting to compare it to the likes of Collingwood,Carlton, etc...

[Adelaide Demon 0]

One thing, Paul Johnson won't be getting delisted, I would reckon anyway. I am not and have never been a fan of his. He will be on the list next year and the one after that I would say. If we got rid of him and didn't trade for a new ruck, we would have Jamar plus kids. Granted, Johnson's not much better than Spencer or Meesen and I feel that with even half a season in to either of them both would become far better players than Johnson, but as much as I hate to say it, we need his 'experience' in the ruck department as we have basically none there following Whitey's departure. And to say that White was 'finished as an AFL footballer long before his contract expired' is incorrect in my judgement. He was averaging 19 touches a match last year. Obviously he was well below his 2004 level but he was our best ruckman last year.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Clearly you have NO understanding of what 'experience' is, or counts for.

Why do you think coaches want to get games into young players? To get them SOME experience!. I am sure you can work out the rest.

I am not by any stretch of the imagination saying those players should have been playing in 2008, but you have to acknowlegde that with them goes a huge amount of experience, self belief (which comes from experience) and ability.

The challenge now for DB is to build those numbers back up BUT do it over a wider base of players so we are not relying on too few again in the future.

Clearly you dont read the posts before your melodrama attacks.

At the end of 2007, Brown, Bizzell and Pickett were finished as footballers. Ward, Godfrey and Ferg were not good enough. Yze, White and Neitz could barely justify a spot in a bottom side based on performance levels.

Experience is very important. However MFC's problem at the end of 2007 and still in 2009 is that the limited number of senior players that had experience were no longer players who were capable of sustaining the performance necessary to provide leadership, strength and guidance to younger players. They were no longer good enough. It was so bad in some cases (like Pickett and Yze) that all they gave was a higher average playing age and games to a side without noteworthy commensurate performance or support.

Its where MFC's rebuild is far more challenging than most other Clubs because in other situations, those other Clubs have had a smaller of experienced leaders who were still playing a good standard of AFL football.

Its left us very exposed in 2008 and will take some years to rectify

[Yencks 8]

in all honesty, you can probably add dunn and newton to that list. as well as probably valenti and zomer

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

in all honesty, you can probably add dunn and newton to that list. as well as probably valenti and zomer

Add Miller and and Rivers as well. Miller has already been dropped and Rivers has to be close.

[pringle 56]

Add Miller and and Rivers as well. Miller has already been dropped and Rivers has to be close.

?????

Please elaborate.

[rusty_corner 0]

Add Miller and and Rivers as well. Miller has already been dropped and Rivers has to be close.

Rivers!!!! You've got to be kidding. This is his first year back from injury. He is the captain of our backline. No way he will be delisted

and the only way Miller will go is with a decent trade...will not be delisted

[rpfc 28,913]

Add Miller and and Rivers as well. Miller has already been dropped and Rivers has to be close.

I hear Miller is back this week and Rivers is a very good player.

So nah, we won't add them.

Very sobering those numbers, we are very inexperienced.

[w00dy 146]

in all honesty, you can probably add dunn and newton to that list. as well as probably valenti and zomer

Newton is contracted, Dunn will hold his spot, Valenti is a rookie listed player, Zomer hasn't played a game...

[QueenC 74]

Add Miller and and Rivers as well. Miller has already been dropped and Rivers has to be close.

You are really beginning to sound like a broken record, get over it.......

[Hannabal 4]

Rivers has been very ordinary this year. He hardly gets a touch and no longer takes his trademark marks. He's been negating OK, but his lack of athleticism in the modern game is telling.

As Garland, Frawley and Martin mature I doubt we'd miss River.

[rpfc 28,913]

Rivers has been very ordinary this year. He hardly gets a touch and no longer takes his trademark marks. He's been negating OK, but his lack of athleticism in the modern game is telling.

As Garland, Frawley and Martin mature I doubt we'd miss River.

They don't think like Rivers does.

Remember how valuable Bizzell was when we were decent, I believe his value will rise immeasurably when we are a better team.

And don't tell me that he might not be a part of that better team, he is a member of the only consistently good aspect of our team - the backline.

[Hannabal 4]

They don't think like Rivers does.

E.x.p.e.r.i.e.n.c.e

[Sir Why You Little 37,310]

Add Miller and and Rivers as well. Miller has already been dropped and Rivers has to be close.

You are Joking aern't you! Improve the delivery from the Midfield & we will get a lot more out of these players who can both take a good Mark.

I just wish Miller would take half an "angry" pill before each game & legally throw his weight around more. His Mojo must return.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Rivers has taken Franklin*, Kosi and Cloke** out of the last three games he's played.

If he played for any other team people would be calling for him in the All Australian team.

*Franklin kicked most if not all of his goals with Frawley playing on him.

** Cloke had 20 touches, but most were up the ground where he is next to useless with less than 50% disposal efficiency.

[Hannabal 4]

Rivers has taken Franklin*, Kosi and Cloke** out of the last three games he's played.

If he played for any other team people would be calling for him in the All Australian team.

*Franklin kicked most if not all of his goals with Frawley playing on him.

** Cloke had 20 touches, but most were up the ground where he is next to useless with less than 50% disposal efficiency.

Cloke played very well.

Have you seen the year Franklin is having ? He can't take a mark since his injury.

[Little Goffy 14,754]

I can verify that Rivers has in fact taken a few of his trademark marks, I remember watching, catching the crash and thinking 'I'll bet that was Rivers stuck in the middle of all that...

He's been a long time out, and certainly not going to be delisted at the end of this year, thats for sure.

I'd think Johnson will be with us a little longer too, despite his frickin horrendous use of the ball so often this season. He's wearing out his time though...

I actually think Bruce is in danger, at the very least of being dropped occasionally. He gets plenty of posessions, but rarely is damaging with them becasue he never quite gets that extra half pace ahead that he needs to be. Same deal defensively, he is often in the vicinity but never quite close enough to be putting on pressure, and his tackles are too often 'just a tackle', lacking the impact to cause a turnover.

It makes me very sad to see so many stalwarts fading, but even Bruce will be a fringe player by this time next year.