Demons finalise list

[Yencks 8]

if anyone can remember, the most frustrating thing he did (or didnt do) this year for mine was against the roos

he got an unlucky bounce and the ball landed in nathan thompsons hand who quickly went to have a kick for goal

CJ one metre away could have easily gone for the smother but literally just gave up, showing no determination

on the note of newton...i saw him and PJ going to the Internations Rules match tonight

[Guest Golgothan]

I thought it was 67 or 83.

I suppose that changes it a bit. Pick 51 is still of debatable value but I accept there is reasonable parity between 51 vs. CJ, and not having to pay his wage.

Our picks would be earlier then pick 67 & 84 anyway. Many clubs have a limited number of picks that they can use, so they'll only take 3 or 4 picks. This could mean that clubs that picked up extra picks like Collingwood or WB wouldn't take a pick after the 3rd round.

Someone on BF usually figures out the draft order after list lodgement (so you know the maximum picks a club could take), it will probably be up in the next few days, if i see it i'll post it on here.

[Whispering_Jack 28,089]

Our picks would be earlier then pick 67 & 84 anyway. Many clubs have a limited number of picks that they can use, so they'll only take 3 or 4 picks. This could mean that clubs that picked up extra picks like Collingwood or WB wouldn't take a pick after the 3rd round.

Someone on BF usually figures out the draft order after list lodgement (so you know the maximum picks a club could take), it will probably be up in the next few days, if i see it i'll post it on here.

Prior to today's list lodgements Carlton had picks 6, 40, 69 etc. If CJ nominates for the ND there's a fair chance someone would take him before #69 which means they would have to use #40 to get him. Alternatively, he nominates for the PSD where the Blues have #6 and given the dearth of players of any decent calibre WCE or Freo would surely consider him. It may not be that easy for him to finish up at Carlton after all.

[Dee tention 611]

Your a 'Fu..ing' joke Melbourne! Could'nt offer CJ more than 1 year? Pathetic! You let the good one's go and persist with retards. He is in my best 22.

CJ heading to the Blues! That would be great! They will both stick it right up us.

I take my above opinion back on being misinformed.

If he was offered 2 years and chose too still go. Well break a leg CJ! Cheap skate! Visy Blues are throwing money at everybody trying to buy a premiership. We on the other hand cannot attract anybody! But thats fine by me. Thats why it will be sweeter when we do have success. Players who dont want too play for our club can [censored] off! Leaving a club in need is weak and shows a weakness in their mental stability and character.

The Demon's arnt going anywhere but right to the top!

Stick it too em Dee's! Get tuff and smash em!

[pantaloons 2,019]

I'd rather Dean Bailey hadn't come out and said he was disappointed in Johnson. Again it paints us as the dateless dweeb on prom night. In reality, we've lost an incredibly soft player who was never going to be a part of any premiership side, so let's move on. If pick 51/67 doesn't turn out to be better than Chris Johnson, then that will be an indictment on our drafting.

[Scoop Junior 3,044]

Well I am concerned.

We chase players and interview them and they don't want a bar of us (eg Prismall, Warnock).

Now, we can't even retain a mid-range player at our club despite sitting down with him and trying to get him to say.

So not only are guys we are chasing refusing to play for us, but even our own are refusing to re-sign with us.

Despite people's opinions on the ability of guys like Prismall, Warnock and CJ, the trend of players not wanting to play for MFC is a bad one and it indicates that there is something NQR at the moment. And to make matters worse, we can't even delist a player that we don't want any more (Carroll). What is going on at this club!?

It can't simply be dismissed as not wanting to play for the bottom club.

We have only one hope - drafting well.

Maybe pick 1 will be the first good news story on the Demons since our elimination final win back in 2006.

[pantaloons 2,019]

Well I am concerned.

I agree with what you've said, Scoop. Not because I value CJ as a footballer, but because it's sad that the son of a former club star can't be stuffed pulling on the jumper.

[Whispering_Jack 28,089]

Well I am concerned.

We chase players and interview them and they don't want a bar of us (eg Prismall, Warnock).

Now, we can't even retain a mid-range player at our club despite sitting down with him and trying to get him to say.

So not only are guys we are chasing refusing to play for us, but even our own are refusing to re-sign with us.

Despite people's opinions on the ability of guys like Prismall, Warnock and CJ, the trend of players not wanting to play for MFC is a bad one and it indicates that there is something NQR at the moment. And to make matters worse, we can't even delist a player that we don't want any more (Carroll). What is going on at this club!?

It can't simply be dismissed as not wanting to play for the bottom club.

We have only one hope - drafting well.

Maybe pick 1 will be the first good news story on the Demons since our elimination final win back in 2006.

I agree with what you've said, Scoop. Not because I value CJ as a footballer, but because it's sad that the son of a former club star can't be stuffed pulling on the jumper.

Let's not get our knickers in a knot over this. The fact of the matter is that we made the first decision and that was the decision to shop him around. Having done that, if the player feels that his future might lie somewhere else, it's quite natural that he should weigh up all of his options and make his own decision in his own interests. That's how the world works and both decisions sit well with me. I wish him good luck wherever he ends up.

Now let's get on with the job of recruiting well for our future rather than dwelling on the past.

[grazman 6,636]

Well I am concerned.

We chase players and interview them and they don't want a bar of us (eg Prismall, Warnock).

Now, we can't even retain a mid-range player at our club despite sitting down with him and trying to get him to say.

So not only are guys we are chasing refusing to play for us, but even our own are refusing to re-sign with us.

Despite people's opinions on the ability of guys like Prismall, Warnock and CJ, the trend of players not wanting to play for MFC is a bad one and it indicates that there is something NQR at the moment. And to make matters worse, we can't even delist a player that we don't want any more (Carroll). What is going on at this club!?

It can't simply be dismissed as not wanting to play for the bottom club.

It shouldn't be dismissed at all, but it's important to keep it in perspective. It's disappointing we weren't able to get some sort of compensation for CJ in the form of a trade in the last two years, but that in itself should be instructive as to his perceived value.

The club was interested in both Warnock and Prismall (as were others), but they went elsewhere, I'd hazard a guess that the other clubs wanted them more by offering them more money - substantially more money in the case of Warnock I think. CJ was initially offered a one year deal and in an effort to keep him that was extended to two years. He decided to go. How much the contract was worth is purely speculative, but I think it's pretty logical to assume that he left us for more money. I don't see that as having anything to do with the love of the club. Clearly in the eyes of many supporters he was judged to be in that NQR range, a view shared by the club given they offered him up for trade in consecutive years. There's been many criticisms of the club and how it goes about recontracting it's players. We didn't pay over the odds for CJ just to keep him at the club - clearly like Prismall, Warnock and those that requested to be traded from Hawthorn this year he saw more opportunities elsewhere (not surprising given Carlton's lack of depth). It isn't about loving the jumper, it's about earning a living, players of this ilk have to make hay while the sun shines. I'd be more concerned if we lost a top ten B&F due to the fact that we were overpaying fringe players.

I'm not particularly upset about losing CJ, and how genuine the two year offer was is debatable (they'd have a fair idea from his manager what other offers had been put on the table). He's had enough opportunities to show that if he was going to be a gun he'd already be there. He's a nice kick (beautiful kicking action), but not necessarily a good one (I was disappointed this year with how many times he failed to hit targets even under minimal pressure). People will disagree, but it's one less NQR on our list, it might hurt our depth a little, but it does create another opportunity.

[Hannabal 4]

Well I am concerned.

It can't simply be dismissed as not wanting to play for the bottom club.

I couldn't agree less.

Once upon a time Brad Sewell was happy to come to Melbourne, but Ferguson didn't want to leave his mates and play for the lowly Hawthorn.

You're reading too much into a fringe player being convinced that better opportunities lay elsewhere. I didn't notice any max exodus.

[timD 994]

I cannot understand the inconsistency of some people. If you want the club to recognise its talent and root out fringe, then people like CJ MUST go - you cannot say that you want the club to bottom out without losing people (this is not you, H). For god's sake, it is annoying to see people who argue for change and then get upset and worried when change starts to happen and the costs are obvious.

[beelzebub 22,308]

It shouldn't be dismissed at all, but it's important to keep it in perspective. It's disappointing we weren't able to get some sort of compensation for CJ in the form of a trade in the last two years, but that in itself should be instructive as to his perceived value.

.....

.

.

CJ People will disagree, but it's one less NQR on our list, it might hurt our depth a little, but it does create another opportunity.

A particularly balanced look at this. Some seem 'crushed' that some of thee guys apparently dont have the love for this club we do and yet the criteria in al reality for barracking for, as opposed to playing for ..a club are probably chasms apart.

Dont beat ya self up folks..its almost comical really . A quick trip to Safeway...aisle 4.. back on the right..2nd shelf up...grab a packet of reality pills..and take some

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I cannot understand the inconsistency of some people. If you want the club to recognise its talent and root out fringe, then people like CJ MUST go - you cannot say that you want the club to bottom out without losing people (this is not you, H). For god's sake, it is annoying to see people who argue for change and then get upset and worried when change starts to happen and the costs are obvious.

I agree TimD.

I look forward to the future not dwelling over NQRs that never looked like making it.

Good summary Graz.

[Scoop Junior 3,044]

We didn't pay over the odds for CJ just to keep him at the club - clearly like Prismall, Warnock and those that requested to be traded from Hawthorn this year he saw more opportunities elsewhere (not surprising given Carlton's lack of depth). It isn't about loving the jumper, it's about earning a living, players of this ilk have to make hay while the sun shines. I'd be more concerned if we lost a top ten B&F due to the fact that we were overpaying fringe players.

So CJ saw more opportunities at an improving team like Carlton than at the bottom club who managed only 3 wins for the season? If you couldn't see yourself getting a game at Melbourne next year, then you may as well take yourself out of the AFL altogether.

Hannabal, it's not so much that we lost CJ. It's that another player doesn't want to play for us. We get shunned by the AFL in the draw, shunned by the tv stations, media personalities and now players. We are just a leftover at the moment.

I didn't want to swap pick 19 for Warnock, but for a guy to emphatically state that he did not want to go to a club that has been working on him for a year and is where his brother plays is not a great result.

As I said in my previous post, drafting is the only way out of this mess. If we can draft well and create a strong team, then our perception in the football world will improve. I don't want to think what could happen if we don't draft well.

[Jarka 767]

Here is what I posted in the CJ thread on the main board...

Well, there goes the theory held by many here that he's a dud and the club is better off without his skills. It's a pity because often the egos gets in the way of some reasonably intelligent individuals.

Losing CJ is a small blow, but he wants to go to another club, what can you do? The club did the right thing in not matching the other financial offer, nor making ridiculous promises about guaranteed game time. Carlton (I presume) is currently throwing arond the cheque book (what a surprise), but the club is desperate for success. Years of farming the best picks and landing the best player in the comp have put enormous pressure on them to succeed. Their fans won't be happy with another couple of years of mediocrity.

I'm sad about losing CJ, I've always liked him and felt that Daniher didn't develop him properly. Most likely his time at the club under Daniher jaded him enough to want to leave. It's a pity we won't see the best of him but his absence won't be the difference between our success and failure.

Losing CJ for nothing is not the best outcome but it's hardly the time to start slashing wrists.

Currently the club is 'unattractive' and for many reasons. Poor performance, uncertain future, poor training facilities, poor crowds etc. This is the task ahead for Bailey and the club. We're starting from a long way back but for the first time in a long time I think we're finally heading in the right direction.

The club is doing the right thing in not paying over the odds for a semi fringe player, it's just sad that it involves a player who I like.

[Jarka 767]

As I said in my previous post, drafting is the only way out of this mess. If we can draft well and create a strong team, then our perception in the football world will improve. I don't want to think what could happen if we don't draft well.

I agree, our picks from 07 and this year (possibly next as well) is going to be crucial for our long term success.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,327]

I would have loved us to have landed a big fish during the trade period. In saying this I actually think our lack of action fills me with great confidence that the current management actually know what they are doing.

We chose not to overextend or overvalue a unproven ruckman or a B grade mid with a knee reco. Yes we may not have been their first choice (which is disappointing) but I am sure that decision for them may have been more difficult if we had thrown money, extended tenure of contract or enticed their current club with pick 17.

We chose not to overvalue a player who until the last half of the year would not have been in 90% of supporters starting 22 and I doubt with the improvement of Grimes, Petterd, Cheney and new draftees was a given to get a game next year.

We chose to not promote Valenti although he showed he can get a kick at AFL level. Instead we retained him for the back up player he should be.

To me we have learnt from previous mistakes and our lack of action shows that we are standing firm on our plan.

[Spirit of the Demon 211]

So CJ saw more opportunities at an improving team like Carlton than at the bottom club who managed only 3 wins for the season? If you couldn't see yourself getting a game at Melbourne next year, then you may as well take yourself out of the AFL altogether.

Hannabal, it's not so much that we lost CJ. It's that another player doesn't want to play for us. We get shunned by the AFL in the draw, shunned by the tv stations, media personalities and now players. We are just a leftover at the moment.

I didn't want to swap pick 19 for Warnock, but for a guy to emphatically state that he did not want to go to a club that has been working on him for a year and is where his brother plays is not a great result.

As I said in my previous post, drafting is the only way out of this mess. If we can draft well and create a strong team, then our perception in the football world will improve. I don't want to think what could happen if we don't draft well.

CJ didn't feel secure at Melbourne because he's played only 31 games in 5 years and he's been offered for trade two years running. Carlton apparently needs him and is prepared to throw money at him. So what's the problem?

We now have an opportunity to draft an extra young kid at pick 50 (assuming we pass with our last pick to stay in the PSD). With that selection we could pick up a youngster who represented his state in the Under 18's and could become a star of the future for us. I agree we need to recruit well but this makes me more excited about the draft in 4 week's time than ever.

[Hannabal 4]

Hannabal, it's not so much that we lost CJ. It's that another player doesn't want to play for us. We get shunned by the AFL in the draw, shunned by the tv stations, media personalities and now players. We are just a leftover at the moment.

We all know that we're on the nose, but I won't let a soft fringe player that is a genuine list clogger become one more example of our woe. Treat CJ's departure in isolation for what it is.

I don't think you're doing that.

[e25 5]

A particularly balanced look at this. Some seem 'crushed' that some of thee guys apparently dont have the love for this club we do and yet the criteria in al reality for barracking for, as opposed to playing for ..a club are probably chasms apart.

Dont beat ya self up folks..its almost comical really . A quick trip to Safeway...aisle 4.. back on the right..2nd shelf up...grab a packet of reality pills..and take some

Right next to a packet of CJs. They're 20 cents for a dozen (as we don't have dimes).

[titan_uranus 22,741]

Whoa. Had no idea about this until just now. Surprised me somewhat. But I understand. After being shopped around, I'm guessing one of the West Australian clubs has made some sort of offer in the PSD, and CJ feels he'll do better at a club that wants him. He had enough time to earn a spot on the Melbourne list, but didn't. A couple of good games this year doesn't make him a required player, and both the club and Chris knew that. One could argue that it's a problem that we can't retain our players and that no one wants to play for us, but one look at McLean donating $10,000 of his own money to keep the club afloat shows that there are still those who care about the club.

Put simply, I don't care that he's gone.

[grazman 6,636]

So CJ saw more opportunities at an improving team like Carlton than at the bottom club who managed only 3 wins for the season? If you couldn't see yourself getting a game at Melbourne next year, then you may as well take yourself out of the AFL altogether.

I think you're trying to shove a square peg into a round hole...

Opportunity isn't about where you're team finishes, it's about the chance you get to play senior footy and no small part of that is the money you make from doing it. You may well disagree with my assertion that Carlton's depth is worse than ours, but which of the following don't you agree with:

1. CJ wasn't highly valued by the FD, hence he was offered up twice for trade.

2. He's actually not that good a player, hence no one actually offered us enough to trade for him.

3. He was offered two years by us and chose to go to the PSD for an offer from Carlton, hence they're offering him more money.

Warnock and Prismall are inconsequential to the argument, they chose to go elsewhere for far more money than we were prepared to pay for them. It's got nothing to do with perception and everything to do with making a living. You may as well raise Chris Judd, tell me that money had nothing to do with his decision.

[Swampfox 190]

In deciding on delisting and the trading of players especially of the younger variety i am a little dissapointed Bailey hasnt added more to the list

I can see his dilema though as making an error of judgment can be condemmed in hindsight by the fans and club hierachy alike

It is however quite rare that a delisted player goes on to become a great elsewhere

Not suprised at all on Valenti and hope he realises he needs to work on his weakness as his strength in getting the ball is excellent and probably what saved him

Glad we kept Zomer but he must start showing us something other than potential in a lower grade of football

I see quite a few players on the list that have next season to improve or clean out their locker

[pantaloons 2,019]

Haven't read every post here, so sorry if it's already been raised, but two years was an overly generous offer to CJ anyway. Why two year deals are offered to clearly sub-par players like CJ and Newton is beyond me.

[EVIL DEE 1]

lets pick him in the PSD, let him play 2s all year then trade him for Cousins in 09.