A Failed Football Theory

[Guest Mos Def]

G'day guys.. long time reader of Demonland.. first time poster.

I've been watching the Dees all my life, I'm in my 30s, and I'm moved to post by our current on field situation.

I'm going to stick clear of the players for the moment.. there are so many kids, not all of them will make it, and the ones that do will get bigger and stronger and better over the next few years.

What worries me is that we have absolutely no structure and a completely unaccountable and uncontested gameplan that I fear will never work.

If you think back to the Cats four or five years ago, they had guys in position that may not have made it to the side now, but they were the same type of player, and they were playing a very similar style of football. Guys like McCarthy and Playfair were replaced with Lonergan and Ablett and Hawkins, all upgrades on the guys tey replaced, but they are the same sort of players.

And on top of us not ha ving that.. the over handball and backwards style of play goes against both waht is currently successful and what has been successful in the last 10 years. The teams that win Premierships win contested footy, are accountable and have good solid structures forward and back. Wat do our guys learn when they run through the middle of the ground and have no one to kick to or win a hard ball and handball short to a teammate who gets crunched?

We're developing our structure at the back really well.

What about the forward line?

I fear we will never be successul with the style and structure we have now.. and in the greater picture, how are we going to get out of the hole the club is in off the field when we have shot ourselves in the foot by ensuring we do not have on field success under the current regime...

How long can Jimmy stand for it? I hope not long.

[leucopogon 1,519]

I agree with your sentiments. I'm still unsure if Bailey's a hack or our list is a shambles (or both).

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,784]

79-9 at half time. Can this club sink any lower

[Kiss of Death 747]

The sad thing is that I think if it was dry weather football, we'd be doing so much better. Geelong have far too many bigger boys out there to bustle their way through the damp turf, although if i see Ablett get any more leeway by the umps i'm going to blow my top.

Nice to see Bartel cop a 50 for late contact, hope his head is okay, he almost knocked it against Junior, it might cost Junior 2 weeks.

[Jarka 767]

Take a moment to analysis the list. We currently have one legit key forward in Miller who is an honest battler, our midfield consists of Jnr and a handful of kids and our defence is the least experienced of the whole comp. We also have very little in the way of leadership across the ground and zero depth.

Bailey is having to build the list from the ground up so we need to have a bit of patience.

[rusty_kingswood 0]

79-9 at half time. Can this club sink any lower

How about your get off the computer and get to the game mate.

Yeah we can sink alot...ALOT lower, and comments like this dont help one bit.

We have a good list, young, inexperienced, under developed, but a list with potential. We were totally outplayed by what will be in a few weeks time, a dual premiership side-who didnt step of the excellerator all night. We will learn from this. Great sides like Geelong, punish teams when their down, and all for the better.

Take just a second, to consider the key injuries we had tonight.

We will be a good side, but to begin with, we need a "supporters" to belive it too.

[Geddy Lee 582]

How about your get off the computer and get to the game mate.

Yeah we can sink alot...ALOT lower, and comments like this dont help one bit.

We have a good list, young, inexperienced, under developed, but a list with potential. We were totally outplayed by what will be in a few weeks time, a dual premiership side-who didnt step of the excellerator all night. We will learn from this. Great sides like Geelong, punish teams when their down, and all for the better.

Take just a second, to consider the key injuries we had tonight.

We will be a good side, but to begin with, we need a "supporters" to belive it too.

He's in Seattle champ.

[rusty_kingswood 0]

He's in Seattle champ.

Not good enough!!!!....

(no...my apologies, a little frustraited at the moment)

[Chook 15,012]

He's in Seattle champ.

No excuses! At least the weather there can be worse than it was here tonight. There's nothing that says "bottom of the ladder" more than a 100 point drubbing on a cold, rainy night.

[Guest Mos Def]

Bailey is having to build the list from the ground up so we need to have a bit of patience.

While I don't agree that the list is that bad.. surely we can get the right style of footy in place and guys in the right positions, even if they are not the ones that will take us forward.. I go back to the Playfair/McCarthy example from Geelong. Geelong's style hasn't changed that much over the last few years.. the basic principals have been in place for years.. as they've got more mature bodies their style has toughened up for sure, but they've been setup properly for years.

Does anyone have any idea what our structure is supposed to be? What can our guys learn when they run through the middle and there's Valenti one out against four Cats defenders? What does Simon Buckley learn from playing the first quarter at FF?

Dean Bailey says he's a teaching coach.. what is he teaching?

[H_T 3,043]

What worries me is that we have absolutely no structure and a completely unaccountable and uncontested gameplan that I fear will never work.

Part of our structure was in the stands watching....Rivers, Miller, McLean, Moloney & Co.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

While I don't agree that the list is that bad.. surely we can get the right style of footy in place and guys in the right positions, even if they are not the ones that will take us forward.. I go back to the Playfair/McCarthy example from Geelong. Geelong's style hasn't changed that much over the last few years.. the basic principals have been in place for years.. as they've got more mature bodies their style has toughened up for sure, but they've been setup properly for years.

Does anyone have any idea what our structure is supposed to be? What can our guys learn when they run through the middle and there's Valenti one out against four Cats defenders? What does Simon Buckley learn from playing the first quarter at FF?

Dean Bailey says he's a teaching coach.. what is he teaching?

Welcome to Demonland Mos Def.

You're 100% on the ball. The decision to leave Buckley at full forward while Geelong dominated in the middle had me astounded.

Like you said, and I've tried to spell out to the Daniher sympathizes, it wasn't who Melbourne didn't have that was worrying, it was what they did with the players they did have.

Again, you're on the ball with what you said about the forward line.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Part of our structure was in the stands watching....Rivers, Miller, McLean, Moloney & Co.

So does that mean that no other player can even at least stand in those positions?

Yes, it would have helped if those players were out there, but it doesn't mean you don't do the same things when they're not.

[Guest Graham Gaunt]

So does that mean that no other player can even at least stand in those positions?

Yes, it would have helped if those players were out there, but it doesn't mean you don't do the same things when they're not.

How'd Nathan Carroll stand his position Clint considering you were pretty chuffed he was in the side??

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

How'd Nathan Carroll stand his position Clint considering you were pretty chuffed he was in the side??

I thought he did OK considering the way Geelong dominated. Played on Mooney for most of the game from memory, who didn't have the biggest influence on the game.

[Guest Graham Gaunt]

I thought he did OK considering the way Geelong dominated. Played on Mooney for most of the game from memory, who didn't have the biggest influence on the game.

I guess Mooney didnt have to do too much though pal other than turn around to watch the ball sail through for goal after goal...

[mo64 5,853]

While I don't agree that the list is that bad.. surely we can get the right style of footy in place and guys in the right positions, even if they are not the ones that will take us forward.. I go back to the Playfair/McCarthy example from Geelong. Geelong's style hasn't changed that much over the last few years.. the basic principals have been in place for years.. as they've got more mature bodies their style has toughened up for sure, but they've been setup properly for years.

Does anyone have any idea what our structure is supposed to be? What can our guys learn when they run through the middle and there's Valenti one out against four Cats defenders? What does Simon Buckley learn from playing the first quarter at FF?

Dean Bailey says he's a teaching coach.. what is he teaching?

Mos Def, You are spot on with everything you've said. I've been saying this all year, but get shouted down by most on this forum.

I can cop a 100 point belting with the side that we had in last night, but not when we don't have a structured set-up, and players are forced to handball sideways to a teammate under more pressure. I couldn't help but laugh on occasions, it was that bad.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I guess Mooney didnt have to do too much though pal other than turn around to watch the ball sail through for goal after goal...

That's my point buddy.

It's pretty hard to blame defenders in a game like that one where there was no accountability or pressure throughout.

[52k2 0]

Was at the game and watched another 100 point defeat, that wasnt the worst part of the evening in my opinion. Do you know what was? No forward line, I dont mean a good forward line considering who was out, but NO forward line full stop, I thought the geelong back line had AIDS or something we wouldnt go anywhere near our forward 50.

At one stage our boys had the ball going forward on the wing look up and see NOBODY- zip- a desert of red and blue, then its handball or kick backward as there was no one in front of them. And guess what at that time PJ was on the bench resting, put a player at full forward and leave him there if only to make the cat back line accountable.

I know we have injuries-alot but put some one there.

Boy if only Valenti was a couple on inches taller what a little goer, but I dont have the guts to tell him he isnt tall.

[Roost It 1,434]

What worries me is that we have absolutely no structure.........

We're developing our structure at the back really well.

??

Couldn't help myself!!

Stay the course, I think we'll find he'll turn out very well. It's going to take time. Do we have that time? Yes.

[rpfc 28,269]

We kicked 17 goals last week. Without Neitz, Robertson, Miller, Newton, and Yze. And Davey and Wonnas were quiet.

I mention Neitz and Yze because they are an average of 70/80 goals a season from 2000 to 2006.

Our list is inexperienced or injured. And vulnerable to a team that has lost 1 game and has a percentage of 150.

Everyone needs to stop giving this crap after a loss and give it after a win, or let's face it, a gallant loss.

The embarrassment of Friday is clouding judgement...

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We kicked 17 goals last week. Without Neitz, Robertson, Miller, Newton, and Yze. And Davey and Wonnas were quiet.

I mention Neitz and Yze because they are an average of 70/80 goals a season from 2000 to 2006.

Our list is inexperienced or injured. And vulnerable to a team that has lost 1 game and has a percentage of 150.

Everyone needs to stop giving this crap after a loss and give it after a win, or let's face it, a gallant loss.

The embarrassment of Friday is clouding judgement...

If you actually bothered to read what posters are saying you would see that they aren't concerned with WHO wasn't in the forward line, they were concerned that NO ONE was in the forward line and that the structure created by the coaches (who they tell to stand where) for the forward line was non-existent.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

It's pretty easy to lose structure in the forward line when the ball doesn't get past halfway so the forwards push up the ground.

From the little snippets I saw of the game by the time the Dees had laboured the ball to half forward there were a good dozen Geelong players in or around the forwardline and no amount of structure is going to find space in that. The amount of times I saw the ball turned over inbetween the wing and the F50 was rediculous and most were more to do with player skill (or lack of) than the forward line functionality

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It's pretty easy to lose structure in the forward line when the ball doesn't get past halfway so the forwards push up the ground.

From the little snippets I saw of the game by the time the Dees had laboured the ball to half forward there were a good dozen Geelong players in or around the forwardline and no amount of structure is going to find space in that. The amount of times I saw the ball turned over inbetween the wing and the F50 was rediculous and most were more to do with player skill (or lack of) than the forward line functionality

There is where there is a big difference between watching a game on TV and seeing it live.

On TV, all you would have seen was the players stuffing up kicks (as you stated) and the skills were poor. However, what you didn't see was the many occasions where a player would look up and see no options further up the ground. The result? Payers were then forced to go short, wide or backwards as they waited for options to appear. Geelong were then able to easily apply pressure (as Melbourne floundered) and in those wet conditions it was even more likely that a disposal error would occur.

For much of the game there wasn't even the option of kicking it long to a forward line, becuase as has been stated there was literally NO ONE to kick it to. As you correctly point out, Geelong were able to push players back, but it was becuase Melbourne were stuffing around with the ball.

[45HG 1,539]

I don't know how much we can gain out of a 116 point belting in all honesty.

Geelong players didn't push back because we screwed around with the ball, they were already back! I'd have thought from being at the game you would've picked that up.

Our forwards pushed back to a) stem the flow of the ball into the cats forwardline (which if they didn't do we'd probably be all complaining about) and b ) to help the midfielders to break even.

The problem was, even 6 against 6, our forwardline was losing out to the cats backline, resulting in an 8 goal to 0 opening term.

Again, i don't think you can criticize a coach about structure based upon a 19 goal loss, given he's done pretty well to scrap out a structure at all in previous rounds. If it continues next week against WCE i'll both concerned and upset.