Anyone for cricket?

[Sir Why You Little 36,757]

Cracking Test match. One more partnership to rest the bowlers. C'mon!!! Peter Siddle become an MCG Hero.

So much for that dream!!!

[Macca 16,731]

Quiz time

Who was the Australian top order batsman who scored 142 in the 2nd innings of a Test match but was dropped for the next test match ?

Clue - they were consecutive Test matches .

[Whispering_Jack 29,369]

Does he have a brother named Richie?

[Macca 16,731]

Does he have a brother named Richie?

Too good WJ ! Yeah , John Benaud . After he failed in the 1st innings of the Melbourne Test vs Pakistan in 1972/73 he was dropped for the Sydney Test . He then went out and made 142 in the 2nd innings . I was at the game . He then went to the West Indies in 1973 and played one more Test ( his last )

Well played sir !

Edited December 28, 2011 by Macca

[Whispering_Jack 29,369]

I was a bit worried that it might be a trick question because of the fact that he was dropped before making his one and only test century.

I think Michael Hussey might find it a tough ask to score a ton in this current test but I reckon if they had to name the team for the Sydney test last night, he might have been in the same boat as young Benaud was almost 40 years ago.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Too good WJ ! Yeah , John Benaud . After he failed in the 1st innings of the Melbourne Test vs Pakistan in 1972/73 he was dropped for the Sydney Test . He then went out and made 142 in the 2nd innings . I was at the game . He then went to the West Indies in 1973 and played one more Test ( his last )

Well played sir !

He was not the only one that it happened to after that Test.

Paul Sheahan made 125 but also did not play the next Test and also did not tour the WI. I dont think he played another Test for Australia. I believe at the time that Sheahan announced that due to his teaching profession demands that he was unavailable to tour for Australia. That put a black mark against his name. Sheahan was a talented batsman and an outstanding cover fieldsman.

Also at that time, the selectors chose the team to tour the Windies at the same time they chose the third Test team against the Pakis. Watkins an unknown with less than 6 first class games was a raw leg spinning country boy who started the year playing in the Newcastle league at the start of the year and was playing for his country 3 months later. It was a jump too far. He could not land a ball on the pitch and his performance was marginally worse than Bryce McGains debut. He did put on an important 80 run 9th wicket partnership. He toured the WI played only 3 B grade carnival games where he got smashed out of the park. Apparently was badly affected by the pressure and experience of Test cricket and sadly suffered later in life.

The third test was also the debut of Max Walker who took 6/15 in the 2nd innings to win the game. He had a great tour of the WI. Walker promptly retired from MFC.

[Nasher 33,607]

Watkins an unknown with less than 6 first class games was a raw leg spinning country boy who started the year playing in the Newcastle league at the start of the year and was playing for his country 3 months later. It was a jump too far. He could not land a ball on the pitch and his performance was marginally worse than Bryce McGains debut. He did put on an important 80 run 9th wicket partnership. He toured the WI played only 3 B grade carnival games where he got smashed out of the park. Apparently was badly affected by the pressure and experience of Test cricket and sadly suffered later in life.

I'd never heard of Watkins before, so I've just done a bit of reading. Makes for an interesting tale:

From this article:

And John Watkins, last of Australia's one-Test leggies, perplexed team-mates who reckoned Kerry O'Keeffe should have been picked in his place. Six overs of wides and steepling full-tosses perplexed everyone but the two Pakistani batsmen.

What could be said to the disappointed legspinner who you know will probably never get selected again? And who could say it? Cricket administrators were not trained counsellors, by heck. Cricket administrators back then were not even paid.

How about your captain, your fellow players? Do they encourage you not to dwell on what's gone, keep practising your legbreaks, maybe one day your dream will come again? Probably not, if you're John Watkins, whose team-mates' whispers and murmurs are still a mystery to him. "If you have to contend with that sort of backbiting," he confided to journalist Peter English, "it's not worth going on tour. I was happy to get home and I could've done with some more moral support."

When Watkins finally did get home, it was as a Newcastle grade batsman who preferred not to bowl.

And his cricinfo profile:

Watkins went on the West Indian tour that followed, but wasn't risked in the Tests, and hardly played at all. Keith Stackpole dubbed him "possibly the luckiest player ever to represent Australia", and recalled how in one of the tour games "he almost hit the square-leg umpire with the widest full-toss I've seen." His always-fragile confidence fractured, Watkins never played first-class cricket again.

Jeez. I can only imagine what a humiliating and degrading experience that must've been. We've all had those "I clearly don't belong here" moments in life, but in the spotlight on an international stage with some of cricket's greats within spitting distance would be horrifying. I'd be scarred for life.

Sounds a lot like me when I played cricket through high school - I bowled leggies too. When the confidence was down or I just wasn't feeling the best, I'd have almost no control over the ball whatsoever. On a good day, most of my deliveries landed on the pitch

[Sir Why You Little 36,757]

2 words Peter Siddle.

That 60 runs this morning was GOLD.

9 Down.....Bang that last nail in the coffin Australia.

[Rogue 585]

Good to see some decent batting from our bowlers!

[Whispering_Jack 29,369]

The third test was also the debut of Max Walker who took 6/15 in the 2nd innings to win the game. He had a great tour of the WI. Walker promptly retired from MFC.

Not quite right Rhino.

Max made his test debut in the second test at Melbourne along with Jeff Thomson who was belted around the park and took 0-100 in the first innings. The test started exactly 39 years ago today - there was no Boxing Day test back then. I was there when Thommo opened the bowling with Dennis Lillee who also had a tough time taking 1 fer about 90. Sadiqh and Mushtaq Mohammed carted us all over the ground for centuries in a mammoth first innings score but we still knocked them over cheaply in the second innings. Maxy took 2 in the first dig and 3 in the second and we ended up beating them. Sheahan got his ton in the second innings but that was a year after the John Benaud century.

Thommo was dropped for the third test in Sydney which was the one in which Watkins made his debut.

The third test was the one in which Walker took his 6-15 in the second innings. I was in Sydney at the time for a family wedding and had a clear day for the last day of the test but my transport from the north shore to the SCG was stuffed up so badly that I arrived at the ground late.

The Pakistanis were chasing 159 in the final innings and were about 2-40 overnight. I got to the ground in time to watch the last two wickets to fall, the last to Walker. The catcher was Watkins who did very little else in the match. They were all out for a little over 100.

I then had about five hours to spare before I was due to be picked up by my hosts in Sydney which I spent sprawled on the grass at Centennial Park reading several hundred pages of Lord of the Rings. I think I dreamed that night about a Bilbo Baggins taking a hat trick on the SCG.

[Macca 16,731]

Here are the 2 scorecards from those 2 tests vs Pakistan in 1972/73 . 5 changes from a winning test ! ( For various reasons ) . The great DK Lillee bowled 23 overs straight in the 2nd innings in Sydney ( albeit with a break overnight ) . He of course broke down with stress fractures in his back soon after .

Pakistan made 574 in their 1st innings in Melbourne yet somehow lost . They were chasing 159 for victory in Sydney and at one stage were 3/83 and lost again . Eerily similar to events in Sydney 2 years ago .

http://www.espncrici...atch/63095.html

http://www.espncrici...atch/63096.html

Well done to the Aussies today . For a while there yesterday I thought we'd be 1 nil down but we got there in the end . Great team effort .

Edited December 29, 2011 by Macca

[Akum 2,660]

And not a hint of suspicion about the result? That a batting lineup that includes Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman & Dhoni can't get 200 against 2 honest toilers & 2 raw newbies? Tendulkar chasing a wide one & Dravid playing all over a straight one? The field set to Australia's last pair?

[Deeman 1,479]

And not a hint of suspicion about the result? That a batting lineup that includes Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman & Dhoni can't get 200 against 2 honest toilers & 2 raw newbies? Tendulkar chasing a wide one & Dravid playing all over a straight one? The field set to Australia's last pair?

And that's not to mention some wild scenes of celebration in one of Mumbai's backstreets amid which new million dollar fortunes were made overnight with the result of the test and the dismissal of the Sydney to Hobart protest. Surely, there going to double up in the Sydney test when VeeweeS scores a double ton!

[Sir Why You Little 36,757]

And that's not to mention some wild scenes of celebration in one of Mumbai's backstreets amid which new million dollar fortunes were made overnight with the result of the test and the dismissal of the Sydney to Hobart protest. Surely, there going to double up in the Sydney test when VeeweeS scores a double ton!

HaHa!! Imagine those same indian bookies the day before when Australia was 4-27...!

Odds on they would have been damaging the doulton quite a few times

Classic Test Match..

[Macca 16,731]

A bit of holiday reading for you blokes and ladies

The late great Keith "Nugget" Miller

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/482217.html

[titan_uranus 24,923]

Another brilliant performance from the Captain!

31 and 1

Glad we are not depending on him to get us out of a hole.

I doubt he will make it to the next ashes series

Second rate player from NSW

Three 100s in the last six Tests isn't good enough for you?

[titan_uranus 24,923]

The point I'm making is that our tail is very fragile without Johnson. Siddle is an honest batsmen for a bowler, Pattinson and Starc may become that in time and Lyon is a number 11. When you have a 6 and 7 that are struggling then the tail looks exceptionally long. I worry about it for the future, when our bowling line up starts looking like: Pattinson, Cummins, Hazelwood, Lyon.

England had the '6 out = all out' problem in the 5-0 Ashes here, and it meant that they played Ashley Giles instead of Panesar.

We now have a very long tail. It's an issue without Johnson because he has done well at number 8 for us. He's bowling rubbish, but his absence has resulted in us losing lance in the lower half of our batting order. 15 runs from him today would have won us the match.

You're happy with making fun of my comments about Hilfenhaus, then surely you won't mind me bringing this one up again.

Boxing Day Test - 1st innings we were 6/214 but all out for 333. 119 runs for the final four wickets.

Then in the 2nd innings we were 6/148 but were bowled out for 240. 92 runs for the final four wickets.

Siddle, Pattinson, Hilfenhaus and Lyon (as well as Starc and Cummins) have all shown that, in addition to the fact that they are actually taking wickets, they can bat as well. We don't have a tail problem at all.

[H_T 3,042]

You're happy with making fun of my comments about Hilfenhaus

Well, you did say he was rubbish....

I went on Day 3 and I must say I was one of 40,000 who were spoilt in seeing 15 wickets that day and an important partnership between Ponting and Hussey. Even managed to get acknowledged by Sachin himself on the boundary late in the day.

I recall an inner D'land smirk when Hilfy was taking wicket after wicket. Glorius. Yeah, definitely a rubbish bowler....

Can't beat experience and a consistent line and length who can move it on a seaming deck.

Edited January 2, 2012 by H_T

[titan_uranus 24,923]

Well, you did say he was rubbish....

I recall an inner D'land smirk when Hilfy was taking wicket after wicket. Glorius. Yeah, definitely a rubbish bowler....

Can't beat experience and a consistent line and length who can move it on a seaming deck.

Yes I did. He was. He's improved now. One swallow doesn't make a summer of course, but he's already done far better than I would ever have expected of him.

[H_T 3,042]

Looks to me to be the same bowler. They always look improved when they have a good day.

[45HG 1,539]

Looks to me to be the same bowler. They always look improved when they have a good day.

I think you're being quite disingenuous to suggest Hilfenhaus hasn't worked a lot on his game in the last 12 months and changed a great deal.

As an aside, Sachin average 24.5 at the SCG when Mcgrath plays. Without Mcgrath, he averaged 634.

[Rogue 585]

I recall an inner D'land smirk when Hilfy was taking wicket after wicket. Glorius. Yeah, definitely a rubbish bowler....

Any inner D'land smirk when our tail piled on some runs in the morning?

I think you're being quite disingenuous to suggest Hilfenhaus hasn't worked a lot on his game in the last 12 months and changed a great deal.

I'm pretty sure I've even read quotes from Hilf admitting he had things to work on after he was dropped, and that he went away and improved his bowling.

[H_T 3,042]

I think you're being quite disingenuous to suggest Hilfenhaus hasn't worked a lot on his game in the last 12 months and changed a great deal.

I think I said he looks the same bowler. I didn't suggest he hasn't worked a lot on his game in the last 12 months - I'm sure he has. Fwiw, I mooted and intimated he be selected ahead of Starc for Melbourne. Experience is everything and given the conditions and his experience it was a no brainer.

Disingenuous ? None the sort.

Just out of interest, here's Hilfy's first class bowling stats, leading into Melbourne: -

4 Nov TAS v VIC Hobart - 1/72, 5/44.

15 Nov TAS v Sth Aust Hobart - 4/60, 0/76.

24 Nov Aust A v NZ, Brisbane - 1/86, 1/22.

6 Dec NSW v Tas, Canberra - 2/74, 1/50.

*ESPN CricketInfo.

Any inner D'land smirk when our tail piled on some runs in the morning?

The following morning on Day 4 ? Yes. But I think you're better off highlighting that with someone else here. The only comment I have to make on tail enders is they're just as important as other members of the team, moreso with the ball in their hand. And it's great to see them cheered on when forming handy cameo partnerships and watch the opposition bowlers get frustrated.

Edited January 3, 2012 by H_T

[45HG 1,539]

I think I said he looks the same bowler. I didn't suggest he hasn't worked a lot on his game in the last 12 months - I'm sure he has. Fwiw, I mooted and intimated he be selected ahead of Starc for Melbourne. Experience is everything and given the conditions and his experience it was a no brainer.

Disingenuous ? None the sort.

Just out of interest, here's Hilfy's first class bowling stats, leading into Melbourne: -

4 Nov TAS v VIC Hobart - 1/72, 5/44.

15 Nov TAS v Sth Aust Hobart - 4/60, 0/76.

24 Nov Aust A v NZ, Brisbane - 1/86, 1/22.

6 Dec NSW v Tas, Canberra - 2/74, 1/50.

*ESPN CricketInfo.

Just out of interest, these are his stats for his two previous series':

India v Aus: 0/100, 4/57

India v Aus: 1/77, 1/27

6/261 at 43.5.

Aus v Eng: 1/60, 0/82

Aus v Eng: 0/53, 1/16

Aus v Eng: 2/83

Aus v Eng: 3/121

7/415 at 59.28.

Now I certainly wouldn't have agreed that he was "rubbish," but even by admiting he was worked on his game you must see that he's not the same bowler. He is certainly a more aggressive, tactical bowler who has seemingly added an extra yard or so of pace.

Not sure what the Starc reference is related to.

[H_T 3,042]

Now I certainly wouldn't have agreed that he was "rubbish," but even by admiting he was worked on his game you must see that he's not the same bowler. He is certainly a more aggressive, tactical bowler who has seemingly added an extra yard or so of pace.

Not sure what the Starc reference is related to.

The Starc reference was just higlighting my preference of Hilfenhaus for Melbourne. I certainly have no intention of talking down Hilfenhaus in anyway, if anything, it's up.

If anything I think Hilfenhaus is more experienced and seems to currently work well in tandem with other fast bowlers. Unsure on the yard of pace but I haven't the figures to confirm that. But I sure see alot more 142-143km/h balls from him. So yeah, in that instance maybe he has gained (not confirmed though). Aggressiveness - you might have a point. His best bowling though is when he provides swing. Certainly on the figures I provided it doesn't highlight anything of significance of improvement for me based on previous first class form in the lead in. What he has done so far in 3 innings at Test level has been impressive I must say, so from that point of view alone, I'd agree somewhat. Going by Test statistics of the past - statistically speaking, yes there is better figures. However, I guess we could recognise the variances in opposition. That said, it's speculative to mention form I guess when comparing stats, or is it ?

So in summary, yeah, overall he is not the same bowler having highlighted his experience.

What I do think is some credit should maybe given to the Australian bowling coach in Craig McDermott. I think he's helping them work together well by working some batsmen over with a few short ones then setting them up for coming forward and playing at one's they don't necessarily need to play. I think collectively as a unit and team the Aussies have so far worked hard and worked well together. And if they're doing that, a few will have better stats as a result.

Edited January 3, 2012 by H_T