Matthew Bate

[Nasher 33,131]

He broke into the side last year playing the last 10 games. He kicked 14 goals at CHF/FF and took mark of the year.

I'm not sure why you think he is 'nothing'. At the very least he is a young player with very good potential.

Because prior to his injury/suspension his form was terrible, both in MFC and Sandy colours. You asked what he was if he was not a FF. I answered your question. At the moment, he definitely ain't an AFL grade full forward, and I don't think he's capable of playing in any other position.

That makes him ... ?

[Gouga 512]

Because prior to his injury/suspension his form was terrible, both in MFC and Sandy colours. You asked what he was if he was not a FF. I answered your question. At the moment, he definitely ain't an AFL grade full forward, and I don't think he's capable of playing in any other position.

That makes him ... ?

An out of form, possibly out of favour AFL full forward. Newton has proven he can play AFL IMO. That counts for more than nothing.

[mo64 5,209]

Because prior to his injury/suspension his form was terrible, both in MFC and Sandy colours. You asked what he was if he was not a FF. I answered your question. At the moment, he definitely ain't an AFL grade full forward, and I don't think he's capable of playing in any other position.

That makes him ... ?

Nasher, that's just your opinion. And we know what your initial opinion of Aussie was as well! And do you know whether or not he was carrying an injury early in the season?

In my opinion, he has all the tools to be a good full forward at AFL level.

[Nasher 33,131]

An out of form, possibly out of favour AFL full forward. Newton has proven he can play AFL IMO. That counts for more than nothing.

Fair enough. Our difference in opinion is largely splitting hairs -- though I'm far from convinced that he's proven anything.

Nasher, that's just your opinion. And we know what your initial opinion of Aussie was as well! And do you know whether or not he was carrying an injury early in the season?

Which part is my opinion? That he was out of form (read rubbish) in the first few rounds is cold hard fact. I did say at the moment, I don't believe any part of "at the moment" infers anything about what he might do in the future.

My initial opinion of Aussie was that I wasn't convinced. I'm sorry if I don't declare players as superstars immediately after one or two games "reasonable" games, which is all his first ones were. That hardly amounts to a dismissal, just like I haven't dismissed Newton. Not everything is black and white.

As for the question of injury -- do you know whether or not he was carrying an injury? I don't know, but given the way Bailey refused to play injured players at all early in the year -- hence Weetra getting a game -- I would suspect he wasn't injured.

[mo64 5,209]

Because prior to his injury/suspension his form was terrible, both in MFC and Sandy colours. You asked what he was if he was not a FF. I answered your question. At the moment, he definitely ain't an AFL grade full forward, and I don't think he's capable of playing in any other position.

That makes him ... ?

Nasher, you're just like Rhino. You make open-ended statements such as the above, which gives you a get out clause when you're proven wrong.

Now give us a definitive assessment as to whether you think that Newton will make it as an AFL football.

[Nasher 33,131]

Nasher, you're just like Rhino. You make open-ended statements such as the above, which gives you a get out clause when you're proven wrong.

It wasn't an opinion I was expressing though, it was an assessment of where he's at, and at the moment he's nowhere. Are you disputing that? There's nothing for me to get out of.

Now give us a definitive assessment as to whether you think that Newton will make it as an AFL football.

My opinion is that he's very talented, but all over the place and could go either way, so I have no idea if he's going to make it or not. Both sides have a strong case.

[jacey 333]

Best Ginger in the AFL!

The red hair is what makes him great. I don't know which game it was but i remember he dyed his hair to a brownish/black once and was absolutely terrible on field.

The red Pav is coming along very very very nicely.

[mauriesy 6,819]

Nasher, you're just like Rhino. You make open-ended statements such as the above, which gives you a get out clause when you're proven wrong.

Now give us a definitive assessment as to whether you think that Newton will make it as an AFL football.

Nasher is quite within his rights to be circumspect. Who knows whether a player like Newton will make it. Why do you want a "definitive assessment" ... so you can come back later and say he was wrong?

All you can say about Newton is that he's got enormous potential, a good sized body, is a good mark and he has had some valuable experience. But for some reason he's not going on with it at present. He needs to pull his finger out and realise that potential himself. No one else is going to do it for him.

[mo64 5,209]

Nasher is quite within his rights to be circumspect. Who knows whether a player like Newton will make it. Why do you want a "definitive assessment" ... so you can come back later and say he was wrong?

All you can say about Newton is that he's got enormous potential, a good sized body, is a good mark and he has had some valuable experience. But for some reason he's not going on with it at present. He needs to pull his finger out and realise that potential himself. No one else is going to do it for him.

To describe any player as being "nothing at the moment", is more than just being circumspect, it's downright insulting.

Newton played some good football last season, but like nearly everyone on our list, he started the season poorly. He has since been out injured, so your assessment of how he's going on and off the field is unwarranted.

[Nasher 33,131]

To describe any player as being "nothing at the moment", is more than just being circumspect, it's downright insulting.

So which is it? Was what I said downright insulting, or was it a non-definitive ("open-ended") assessment? It can't be both.

[Jarka 767]

Nasher, you're just like Rhino.

Ouch, that's harsh

[Guest MFC4Life]

Nasher, you are the belt-weilding father. Mo, your looking at him through a mothers eyes. Both of what you have said has merit. Maybe he is injured and maybe he is out of form. But he will never have a better chance than this year to try and cement a position if he wants it. We have absoultely no forward line this week (unless we give Robbo a chair to sit on) so unfortunatley this would have been the perfect week to elevate him if he was right.

[Nasher 33,131]

Nasher, you are the belt-weilding father.

Haha! Don't tell my wife! :D

[Rogue 585]

To describe any player as being "nothing at the moment", is more than just being circumspect, it's downright insulting.

Newton played some good football last season, but like nearly everyone on our list, he started the season poorly. He has since been out injured, so your assessment of how he's going on and off the field is unwarranted.

In between getting dropped and being injured he struggled at Sandy, suspended for striking just when he was finding some form.

In anyone's language, it's been a poor year for Newton so far.

[Guest MFC4Life]

Haha! Don't tell my wife! :D

Apologies, that was a tad presumptuous of me.

[Nasher 33,131]

Apologies, that was a tad presumptuous of me.

It's fine, I wasn't at all offended, I found it pretty funny actually.

[beelzebub 22,243]

Ok...now for something a tad maverick from the Bub..

I was rewatching the game the other night..and a particular thought kept coming back to me whenever I saw Bater with the ball. See who picks where this is going. This lad has poise , control; has footy nouse and a bagful of talent. He also has great maturity for his disarmingly young age and he doesnt get overwhelmed. He backs himself and can control his area. Is it just me or do others seem to feel a lift when he has the ball ?

Ok...whos worked it out yet ??

There is a job vacancy at the Dees. Others including myself ( in past ) have thought this or that best suited, but I think one Mathew Bates ought to be seriously considered.

[Freak 100]

he is not our most important player. its very easy to pump up his tyres after his best game of his career, i didnt see this thread last week for some reason. end of discussion

[beelzebub 22,243]

dont need to pump his tyres up.. they're self inflating !! lol

All discussion have their time.. possibly this one is now.

Mine was only for the discussion about a thought. Im not convinced about the other choices for this position..but it did occur to me watching him he had it written al over him. Again only my impression.

[rpfc 27,564]

Ok...now for something a tad maverick from the Bub..

I was rewatching the game the other night..and a particular thought kept coming back to me whenever I saw Bater with the ball. See who picks where this is going. This lad has poise , control; has footy nouse and a bagful of talent. He also has great maturity for his disarmingly young age and he doesnt get overwhelmed. He backs himself and can control his area. Is it just me or do others seem to feel a lift when he has the ball ?

Ok...whos worked it out yet ??

There is a job vacancy at the Dees. Others including myself ( in past ) have thought this or that best suited, but I think one Mathew Bates ought to be seriously considered.

Too young.

But I think he is very possibly a chance to fill the position of Neitz on the field.

Maybe he is more value with more space to work in but he is a powerful leader (very quick over 20m) and a great mark.

His kick is awkward but true.

[Yze_Magic 3]

He is a gun that is getting a little better every year.

He is tall, has a booming kick, is a nice mark and is quicker than you think.

I agree he is our most important player. He is the glue for us across half forward.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Rivers is our most important player.

Bate may become our most important player but let's see him string some games together.

[Yze_Magic 3]

Rivers and bate are the bookends, and with them both in the side we are completely different.

Hopefully Rivers is back this week.

We will smash the Saints.

[monoccular 16,232]

Would it be too presumptive and put too much pressure on Matty to say he has a Pavlich like look to him in the way he plays and demands the ball. Sure a few years behind him but jut wait and see!!

[Yze_Magic 3]

Would it be too presumptive and put too much pressure on Matty to say he has a Pavlich like look to him in the way he plays and demands the ball. Sure a few years behind him but jut wait and see!!

Ive been saying that since he arrived.

Ive heard a few people call him the red headed Pavlich.