Roger Mellie

I think it's be Parish or Curnow

This is from a Tiger Supporter on 'Big Footy' dropping in to the Melbourne board. There are interesting parallels: Hey guys, I think there is merit to the causal framework Paul Roos hinted at this week (with poorly chosen words). I experienced it with my club 6-7 years ago with Terry Wallace and 25 years of failure. Paul is right when he says the negative expectation from the bottom feeds up and affects the players' psyche. However, they shouldn't blame supporters, as they've been loyal and are merely reacting to what has been dished up on-field for 10 years. It's not your job to set the culture. And therein lies the vicious cycle. The team losses, the supporters develop accurate, realistic expectations... and these filter up and over time make it even more difficult for the club to break the cycle. It's a negative feedback loop and it's nobody's individual fault - it accumulates gradually over time in response to reality. How to break the cycle? I don't think Paul Roos has the answer. He can identify the problems though, which is a start. At my club, there were a string of moments around late 2009/2010 that changed the way I perceive the club. I can distinctly remember one very powerful shift in my own personal mindset that was a result of action taken by Brendon Gale: - In 2010, with 9 years of no finals and we were labelled worse than Fitzroy and had 9 losses to start the season with a percentage of like 47%... he came out and said "we will not be asking for a Priority Pick at the end of the year. We're responsible for our positions and it's 100% our responsibility to get us out of this mess". I was like what?! Surely we deserve a PP!! We're the worst performed team over 25 years!! I also felt a little warm at the boldness of that "we need no help" attitude. Over time, it paid off more than some PP kid. Another thing that caused a shift to my thinking was this: - Gale consistently went at great lengths to NOT blame the past admins/coaches. He gave heartfelt thanks to everyone who has tried to help our club return to glory, acknowledging they didn't have the environmental conditions to get the best out of themselves or others, but their effort was to be applauded. He didn't mention names (never said "Terry Wallace" publicly after 2010) and made supporters feel more appreciation and understanding towards those who have failed us. (Eg, Terry Wallace had to paint the walls himself, cos we couldn't afford a painter... "our fault" as a club, not his). Comments on forums changed in tone after this... but only gradually. Here is an example of how difficult it is to change the bottom-up expectations of supporters: - When we made finals in 2013 for the first time in 12 years. In the lead up, I remember everyone on forums was freaking out about us somehow finding a way to lose and embarrass ourselves and miss finals at any moment. Even when we were 3 games clear with 5 rounds to go, literally 95% of the supporters were refusing to say we're in. Our captain continually spoke in a defeatist way to the media (partly to stop the media saying we're getting ahead of ourselves) by saying "we won't even think about finals until it's mathematically impossible to miss". - In 2014, at 3-10, we all thought the sky had fallen. It was same old Richmond. Sack Dimma, cleanout the list, tank for picks, start again. Then we beat a bottom 4 team. Damn! We went up a spot on the ladder... then we beat the Giants. Damn! Dropped another spot higher on the ladder. Then we beat Carlton, North, Crows, etc and we stopped caring about the draft picks and just enjoyed the winning feeling for a change. Then we beat Sydney in Sydney for 9 straight to make finals. Wow. That was the moment. That was the moment a lot of people at the club said "I'm never doubting this club again". - In 2015, we started at 2-4 but you know what? We'll be right. Most likely make finals, but won't make top 4 damn. Then we play unbeaten Freo in Round 10 and you know what? I tipped Richmond to win. We won. Beat Sydney, Hawthorn, etc... great, and so we should. Spewing we're just making finals and miss out on top 4 by 1 game. Go into every game expecting to win or compete now. On the forums, there's maybe 10% of posters still freaking out about missing the finals by losing every game by 20 goals and missing out on percentage... but they're now shouted down by the vast majority who have a belief in the club to say "of course we'll make it stop being negative". The shift has been enormous... but it took 5 years, and even now there's hints of it by the minority. After 4 years with Dimma/Gale, it took a miracle 9 game winning streak to make finals to change our minds somewhat (and even then, not completely). This required a 'get ourselves out of it' mentality that didn't reward a draft pick culture. Most posters complained about all those meaningless wins and meaningless finals loss to Port last year. It's taken until our third finals series in a row this year to stop most of that... and it could come rushing back if we miss next year. After we lost 1 game to West Coast in Round 12 this year, I saw about half our supporters reverting back to their old negative ways. But then we kept winning, and they reacted with strengthened confidence. It won't be a quick fix for you. Ultimately, the fans merely react to the actions of the club. The solution MUST come from the club. It starts before you start winning, so it requires the club to come out with a plan to subside negative expectations/blame coming from supporters for 2-3 years, to enable the players a chance to break the negative feedback loop and have a greater chance of winning. Paul Roos was supposed to give you guys that hope. He succeeded on the back of his reputation early on, but where he's failed is with his constant distancing of himself from the club, therefore breaking the following golden rules: - Demonstrate shared responsibility - Encourage supporters to applaud those who tried and failed in the past (no blame-shifting to the past) - United mindset that accepts responsibility on behalf of others (like the psychological concept of Jesus Christ dying on behalf of humanity to absolve everyone of our sins... lol...), the leaders must be willing to unfairly accept disproportionate blame in order to free everyone else of the burden! Sorry for the lengthy post. I'm just posting casually, but I do have serious ideas about this topic and hope you enjoyed reading the experiences of a similar club that seems to have finally broken their cycle. Read more at http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/mfc-victims.1109053/page-4#m84msTIOSKEyL3Dw.99

Edited

Gawn - tapped to Carlton Howe - trade value plummets N Jones - must be injured Salem - no class shown MFC - Taking the [censored] Cross - record-breaking dropped marks/fumbles (Q1)

Jeez, there's nearly one for every player at the club. Maybe get rid of 10 of them and spend a few hundred thou on a sports psychologist

Are you kidding? He was about 15th in line in the terrible queue. It was a long queue mind you

If the players had seen the footage of how bad Carlton were playing, they might've had a crack in the first half. Not to be, the players had already decided not to show up. It doesn't get lamer

I get that you fly the flag for Jack and that he certainly wasn't near the worst out there...... but that was a cracker of a post. Still laughing

Near the end of the first quarter comedy act, I had this bizarre sensation of suddenly being upside down. I think I just reached my tipping point.

Nope - the unfulfilled potential must be in boxing Pass

I think he suffers from: - our clogged up game style - lack of clean disposal - lack of movement up the ground He's also just not that good and our experimenting with him in other positions was a failure (we could've used his speed in the midfield). It's a shame as he's retreated way back into his shell

I edited it and slotted him right back in this morning!

Jared Grant is an inexcusable omission. I think, however, it's courageous that he eliminates any chance of scoring with the ladies, by shaving that head. I reckon he might glow in the dark too

I could live with this: MacDonald Dunn Jetta Vince Tomlinson Salem Watts Viney Bennell Trengove Lynch Petracca Kent Hogan Garlett Gawn Jones Brayshaw I/C Tyson Stretch ANB Garland/Dawes Em: Frost Dawes/Garland/ JKH Newton Edit: Van Demon In

Thanks. That was weighing on my mind

What makes me gag, is that we go into these games with zero initiative. We just amble in and see how the game pans out. It's as though we're trying to get away with as little as possible. Everything is a reaction rather than dictating the terms of the game. It happens time and time again. The worst game was Essendon - when they were inept but we wouldn't set the tone of the game. Same when we won against Brisbane - when no side wanted to take the initiative. We were just slightly less horrendous than them. When we do the same against a good side we get dacked in spectacular fashion. Odds on to do the same against Carlton next week.

and Beach Road Barry

This combo in the midfield would be disastrous but it's worked with both as defensive forwards (well once anyway) and it should stop the Bullies run out of defence. Yep my glass is half full

Greetings Smith! Just chiming in here on the back of DA. Good to see you post - it's been a while! You'd be loving the cricket at the moment too.

I agree with you Nasher but think we need some midfield depth to cover for injuries. With that scenario, we've wiped them all out. I'd therefore retain one of Michie or Riley if we couldn't get a decent upgrade on them. I'd also attempt to trade Toump, with fingers crossed.

Agree on Seedsman. You can see brilliance and spud in the same game. Wasn't he subbed off against us as well?

Here's a few less words instead: It's his opinion and his effort, which was admirable. If you don't agree say why or STFU

Great effort and input Deespicable!

You can fine them AND delist them?

They should just call it what it is - an advertising experience! Or, more aptly advertising onslaught, Advertising offence, Blinded by advertising, Yeah that's it