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Just read the Sun, how the hell is Slobbo employed in the media, that was the most biased load of rubbish i've ever seen! how can the AFL allow so much positive talk around a bloke who with his mates made a mockery of their rules and showed the whole world just how much integrity and strength the league really has.

First of all, on Watson's decision to hand back the Brownlow Medal, I say that it's about time. In fact, a decision delayed by three years and five months since the day he admitted this - Jobe Watson admits to injecting banned drug AOD-9604 ESSENDON captain Jobe Watson last night made the stunning admission he took the banned substance AOD-9604, but the reigning Brownlow medallist remains adamant he did nothing wrong. The star onballer said he took the anti-obesity drug after signing a consent form. "I signed that consent form and my understanding, after it being given through (club doctor) Bruce Reid and the club, that I was receiving AOD," he told Fox Sports program On The Couch. Asked if he thought the substance was legal when he was taking it, Watson replied: "that it was legal at the time and that was actually what I was told I was being given." The brazen admission by Watson that he took this now almost forgotten (in the context of this entire controversy) peptide defines the essence of his and the other 33 players' wrongdoing. They might have thought it to be legal based on what they were told but what steps did they take outside the club regime to determine it to be so and why did Watson so confidently make this statement when a very simple search would have revealed AOD-9604 was not an approved substance under the WADA Code even at the time of making the statement? It's true that ASADA later chose not to pursue the AOD-9604 line and went after the players on the "safer" ground of TB4 but the former has never been fully explained or resolved. Why did ASADA drop AOD-9604? WADA boss wants review The statements made by Watson on the programme were breathtakingly arrogant and, when I look at the explanation in the CAS judgement as reported in January, 2016 about the responsibilities of the players in terms of what they allow to be ingested into their bodies, it confirms the view that the players cheated and deserved to be sanctioned. Even in his statement handing back the medal, Watson showed no remorse and in doing so, he was being consistent with the way he regarded his situation in June 2013. I don't believe he was being honourable in any way whatsoever. Secondly, once you expunge Watson as Brownlow Medal winner then it would be an injustice to those who cleanly polled the most votes for them not to be given what is rightfully their award. Jared Tallent deserved to be awarded the Olympic Gold once it was clear that the walker who crossed the line was a drug cheat. The AFL would be acting inconsistently if it failed to follow the same practice as the IOC. Watson might well prefer this because an asterisk against the year would forever draw attention to the drug saga in which he was involved.

My biggest issue is that he's pushing a message that doesn't make sense, Jobe himself claimed he handed the medal back to protect what the award stands for but that's rubbish, if that was ever his real concern he would have handed it back the day the appeal failed, not months later when word starts getting around that the AFL was going to take it. the thing Jobe is clearly missing is that if he doesn't know what he took, he doesn't know he didn't do what he's been accused of and therefor he doesn't KNOW that he hasn't cheated. but he swears black and blue that he's done nothing wrong, implying that he knows for sure that he hasn't taken anything illegal, or feels that he's been duped, but he didn't ask questions, or bang WADA's door down to make sure he was clean, as players are instructed to do if they aren't sure. if it were me i'd be really keen to hand it back if i wasn't 100% sure what i'd done was within the rules, so i can't understand why he would feel he has any right to keep it if he couldn't prove he's done the right thing ( keeping in mind that providing accurate records of all substances he's taken is in his agreement and a job requirement and there is absolutely no excuse for any player under any circumstances not doing this )

One of our posters Supermercado writes a great blog for bigfooty and he's just finished writing his own book called "The Great Deepression" - I gather it's about Melbourne's recent hard times. Judging from his blog, it should make interesting and entertaining reading and would have to be better than some of the footy books I've read in the past (the bio of Peter Matera for example). You can order here and remember, when he wins the Nobel Prize for Literature you will be able to say you knew him when! I've ordered mine and will review it at some time in the future.

It is a running joke amongst the squad about the size of Angus' head, he has even joked to me about it, he had his tongue firmly in cheek Just really unlucky last year, once the realstuff starts, he like the rest will have his head over the ball Angus was very good on Friday, aerobic fitness definitely up I asked Macca for an early tip for a great year, answer Brayshaw

I got as far as the headline "Debacle ends with a great injustice" and decided to read no further.

Thanks LH but when you have a poster like DS posting a perfect summation of the drills, leaves me free to check out other stuff and post The training has gone up another notch from last year with Roos, which went up from the year before, and the year before, everybody is on the same page, knows exactly what is going to transpire during the session, each person has a role, like watching a well oiled machine Plus we have players who have a settled future and thanks to Roos and now Goodwin, can see the light at the end of the tunnel, Hogan is a completely different beast, all the contract rubbish is out of the way, the perceived weight on his shoulders as a saviour is lifted (like Watts) he has returned in fabulous nick and is leading the way at training I have also spoken to a couple of them (no names in this instance), and following the end of season reviews they know exactly what is expected of them this year and what the consequences will be if they don't produce

It was refreshing to hear Goodwin say that they'd have the footies out straight away, and it sounds like it's been true. Gone are the days of no footies before Christmas. I feel so impatient waiting for this coming season. I can't remember the last time I was so looking forward to one. Love the training reports guys. Thanks, the effort is much appreciated, regardless of whether you're writing full reports or the odd one liner.

I was there for an hour or so. Frost joined rehab group and went in early. Slight upper leg strain my guess, but someone else will update the site on this, I'm sure. Beautiful Melbourne morning and the session had the feel of early season training, with several miss-kicks and lack of stamina by some in the competitive stuff. Brayshaw was one who surprisingly had poor delivery for a five minute period. It was quite willing at times with a few players copping a few bruises in the tackles. Hogan was impressive. Wagner was also fit and clean in his defensive work. Vanders still running the boundary line. Melksham and Hibberd looking sharp in the kick to the lead activity, Jack Viney was also working hard in this group, along with Mitch King, who was less impressive today when fatigue started to cut in. Billy Stretch impressed in the large group as did Petracca.

As far as I can make out the 17-5 format means, all teams play each other once in the first 17 rounds. Then they divide up into 3 groups to play the final 5 rounds. Nos 1-6 play off for top 6, nos 7-12 for nos 7-12 and nos 13-18 play off for aspros. If you finish 13 only % behind 12 or even 11 you cannot play finals even if you finish higher than 12 after round 22. So you couldn't get a 1987 type year where we won our last 7 games and snuck into the finals on % alone. What use is the last 5 rounds for nos 13-18? No chance of finals no matter where you finish. And this is good for football!

Richmond - the gift that keeps on giving.

Hope they stay, the 70% Discount last year was outstanding, and encouraged me to go back and get other stuff,

redleg, i don't doubt the afl will officially strip him of the medal come tuesday. only the governing body can do that. all watson has done is return it for their decision, returning it at the last moment is a bit reminiscent of essendon "self reporting" only when they heard the axe was about to fall.

Point of order, your Honour. The only known way to derail this thread is to mention a certain former Melbourne player. Otherwise any charge of derailment won't stand up under cross examination ... ?

The truth is that the AFL are very often behind the stance of the journos. very few are independent of the grasp and if you wish to keep your accreditation then you don't rock the boat.

I'm currently inclined to think this is all stage management from the AFL and ASADA have not played their cards yet. The AFL have tentacles throughout the media; for Christ's sake, anyone reporting on AFL matters has an AFL accreditation and News Corporation own more than half of the broadcast rights! Put two and two together and see what the vested interests here are.

Just opened this thread with some trepidation. I can only say what a delight it is to just read training reports and tidbits and see how much great info posters collect, especially Saty. Thanks folks. I'm getting a clear picture that just about all players have come back in great nick. They heeded Roos challenge at the BnF '...success starts now - not when preseason begins...' It bodes very well!

All of Melksham, Hibberd, Viney, JKH, Mitch King along with Crossy were doing a drill located at the Northern end where they were just leading and marking kicks to each other in different combinations within an area about 60 out from goal. I assume it's conditioning their bodies to footy style movements - kicking, marking, bending down, jumping etc. Wouldn't really impact where they play. Hibberd clearly has a powerful left. Melksham has very good penetration on both sides of his body. His body is very sinewy and he kicks like a guy with long levers, not always pretty but it can travel. JKH is one of the most balanced kicks in the team, from a technical and aesthetic component I'd say he's the best kick of that group. We all know Viney isn't the greatest kick but one thing he does make look easy is taking difficult marks. He plucked a ball one handed that should've gone clear over his head. He was jumping and scurrying around and not showing any signs of restriction in his movement.

Frosty has an issue with an ankle, not due back till 21st so was told to give it a rest Macca is pumped, think it will be him driving the standards, coaches as well, so Goody can coach

I popped down for a bit. Nathan Jones was out there I believe for the first time. Viney was moving and kicking freely but is still in the rehab group. They did a drill in front of where I was standing with 3 cones setup in a triangle shape and a group of players behind each cone. The player with the ball would kick to a player at the front of either of the other 2 cones and then sprint there to stand on the mark. If he wasn't on the mark in time the instruction was the player receiving had to play on immediately and get it to the next cone. If the player did get close enough to the mark the receiving player had to fake one way then play on the other. And so on went the drill. The skills were pretty good. The emphasis in the drill is clearly to get the ball moving quickly.

I was there this morning, change of personnel this morning Bugg out Natnan Jones, Hibberd, Viney in Hogan the standout again today, reckon they will be pulling the reins a bit soon, Petracca good as well, Salem produced one of the worst kicks I have seen him do in a drill, much to everybody's amusement, soon back on song Will be posting a pic of Maynard next to Jake Spencer so posters can aee why is size is mentioned, if somebody later can put on here, pics should be up in hour or so The soccer drill is for coordination and making them use both feet More later

Here's the picture.

I'm absolutely sick of it. It's bullying. It derails threads. There is going to be a no tolerance policy about it. I'm not going to be playing favourites about it either. If I see it or it is brought to my attention and espcially if it's from one of you usual suspects, and you know who you are, then you are gone. It might be a week, it might be a month, it might be a year, it might be forever. I do not like to do this and I hate that it has come to this but for some of you your time on Demonland is almost up. Last warning for everyone. Play nice. Play the ball and not the man. If you don't like a poster or his/her opinions then scroll past their posts or use the ignore feature. If you continually bait certain posters you will be banned. No more warnings. If you continually abuse certain posters you will be banned. No more warnings. If you derails threads you will be banned. No more warnings. I might miss things and it might seem unfair that this one gets dealt an unfair hand well that's just bad luck. If you don't do the crime, you won't do the time. I'm building a wall around Demonland and the Richmond fan forum is going to pay for it. Last warning starts now. THESE ARE EXCITING TIMES AHEAD FOR OUR CLUB. IT WILL BE A SHAME IF YOU ARE NOT HERE TO PARTICIPATE.

With no appeal allowed

plus, banana bashing should be subject to immediate banishment

WARNING unless you have a particularly strong stomach i would strongly urge you not to read today's hun. It is all that was predicted and more

It'd be so easy to give up on this code, the problem is, my team's about to explode!

Moonie, when a horse is disqualified from a horse race, how many times has no winner been declared? Mitchell and Cotchin are rightful winners, and should receive all of the fanfare that goes with winning. They should definitely sue for lost earnings, but of course they wont.

If this was a Dees player they'd have copped 2 years, i have little doubt of that. I wouldn't rule out ASADA deciding 6 months is a bit soft and going in really hard at this one.

They all stuffed up mate, Hird, Dank, Weapon, AFL, everyone, the whole situation has been a disaster, not only does it show the EFC in a bad light, i believe it puts the AFL's corruption firmly out there for all to see, we've all see how they handle these sorts of things. the AFL tribunal found them not guilty... i mean seriously how they thought that was going to be allowed still baffles me.

The AFL needs to understand that an attack on the rules is an attack on them, they're so concerned with any loss of revenue that all integrity of the game has gone totally out the window! They need stronger leadership and a willingness to sit back and be neutral and punish things for what they are, rather than trying to find loop holes and play games to look after their mates. 6 months is a disgrace for someone who has actively avoided a drug test ( assuming that all that has been reported is accurate )

Thanks everyone - I am interstate and can't get there often but this all helps bout the annual optimism, but it is really different this year.

All reports appreciated. Keep up the great work.

Saty. The rules are written forr the exact scenario. The reality is however it got into their system they are the ones benefitting. It is why it is totally up to the player to take responsibility. They did not, wilfully or ignorantly. They are guilty. They cheated. The end

Cheers for the training reports guys, hands down the best thing on Demonland and 99% of why i come on here.

Gus is ok, as per interview on club website, just getting it done in the first week, was very smooth when they were doing the bring out and back in drills

How's Gus Brayshaw moving around, he seemed to start last season quite slowly when he got back in the side but really moved well at the end of the year

He'd have been accused of making it all about him in the throws of the season if he'd done that. If not that, someone would have found some other way to pan him over it. There's no pleasing people with the timing of things like this. I read his statement and to me it was as good as I'd hope for in the context of being a player who received a ban for drugs. It doesn't mean it was absolutely good, or that he's a hero, or that I admire him, it's just that I thought it was appropriate under the circumstances. I don't think it would kill people just to give him that nod.

Quality thread, thanks all!

Thread purged and (light) sanctions issues. A reminder to everyone not only to avoid derailing threads, but if someone else does it, report the post rather than contributing to it by replying. Cheers.

And on the fitness side, spoke to Macca, who says it straight, said any player who turns up less than perfect, may as well start practicing the drive to Casey

On McKenna, early observations, nice size, good speed and neat and tidy kicking action, has slotted in seamlessly, was told he turned up first day in excellent nick

One of the greats.

When I spoke to Goody on Monday, Hibberd half back, Melksham same as Lewis/Jones/Vince wing/halfback/guts

I'm interested to know if they're starting to break up into backs, mids, forwards and who's in which group. For example is Hunt still in defence or mids. Which group is Salem linking to ? It may be too early in the first week for all that, but over coming weeks I'd appreciate knowing who is training with which group.