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I'll admit to being a glass half full guy up front. Headed down to training for the first time in ages today, the persistent rain didn't help for viewing, or training for that matter. I'm not seeing all the poor skills Clint is talking about, felt like I saw 25-30 kicks in a row hit a leading forward nicely. In match simulation grimes did miss the target on his left.....but he only had it as Salem got caught and he had followed up from deep defence, the grimes story! Really liked what I saw, a lot, I mean a lot of fit healthy, sharp looking players. Toumpas was much faster than I thought. Pedo looked good forward and higher up the ground, kick it well and clunked it. Lead and clean grab out in front of the day for me was big Maxy Gawn, he might just be very intimidating deep forward. We have plenty who can play tall forward with Gawn, Hogan, Pedo, Fitzy, Jamar and Watts all doing it today. Rawlings was teaching a group how to body off when deep forward with your shoulder, and then likewise how to prevent a forward doing this to you......cross very good at this as was Garland. I really liked the look of Newton throughout, from today he would be my pick as an unassuming player who slots 18+ games of good intensity and skill. The defenders (from memory Grimes, tmac, frost, garlo, Harmes, hunt, Terlich, Jetta, Dunn) did some impressive clearing the ball from defence, and after hitting a player about 50-70m out wide on the flank centered in board to Rawlings and then had runners storming past. Grimes excelled at this, Harmes looked good and wow, gee wow isn't hunt super super quick. If he can get on the end of handball running through the middle look out opposition, even if that is Port Melbourne not Richmond. Didn't see a lot of the new young ones, though Petracca did some nice things, Dunny was really pushing him in the ground simulation a few times....."get forward Track, get forward, go.....". Funny moment was when tmac sold viney a huge dummy in the goal square and kicked a goal, boys had a real chuckle. There is some real depth now. A bright year awaits. No Howe, and Vince ran 50 laps.

Was able to get along to my first training session today, and thought it's only fair to report my thoughts after all the good work by others keeps me updated each week! How the detailed reports are done I don't know, with all the players covering the full length of the ground it certainly is a challenge. The main overarching theme to training is Transition. The majority of the session revolved around drills that had each group working on moving the ball from the backline at pace, taking the best/first option as quickly as possible. Coupled with some contested clearance type work (at least on my side of the ground) it was good to see as it meant in my opinion we were focusing on two of the biggest weaknesses we had last year. After some warm up drills, they broke into a full ground drill, a person would start in the pocket, dodge some stationery metal characters and hit a leading target on the back 50. The lead would have quick hands to another person running the opposite direction out of the 50 and launch a long ball over the square to a player entering the forward 50 whom will run in and finish. Good kicks that enabled the finisher to not break stride were Neal-Bullen (same to hear about his dislocated knee), Salem, Watts, Toumpas and Newton. Next main drill was also full length drill with the same focus, It was more match simulation in feel and the group split into 3 groups. 2 groups would be on the ground at once. One team would need to move the ball again from the pocket taking the short options quickly as possible. Once the ball made it into the forward line the group on the side went onto the ground and some in the forward line would come off and jog around to the wing to wait. Each time a group went onto the ground, Rawlings would say 6 v 8 etc and they would change tops to work it out. Grimes, Jamar and Jones as you would expect were quite vocal, yelling at the team on the field. Petracca has some swagger and was also vocal, while Brayshaw was very reserved so the early comments ring true with those two. Next drill, was split into what appears to be forwards, mids and backs to some degree. In front of me (on opposite side to main crowd), we had a small group of the young mids, Toumpas, Salem, Riley, Brayshaw. Petracca and a ruckman who rotated through with the other group of older mids who were doing a larger scaled version. The ball would be lobbed in and one team had to get the tap, and clear it out of the surrounding area. Lastly, it was a match simulation, split into 2 teams. The ball would be kicked up into a teams back pocket and they would move it from end to end. If a decent mistake was made then Roosy would stop play, instruct and then it would reset and start with the same player down back to start again. There was clearly more a direction to switch the play quickly where possible. Newton was good here, he made space a couple of times and hit good options. Petracca was hesitant, but on one occasion when struggling screw a kick around and hit his target 30-40 metres away on the lead which was impressive. Grimes was good, other than that errant left footer. Left once the group was brought in. Call outs: Newton - was the stand out for me, he is ready to go – no doubt, knows how to find the footy consistently and users it well and didn't see him waste possession. Toumpas – thought he trained well, not sure what everyone expect every single player to stand out each week. He was energetic and encouraging whichever drill he was in and used the ball well from what I saw. But agree with not seeing where he will play but haven't lost belief he can develop into a good player. Hogan – most of his work was away from where I was but I did see him clunk a few after pushing his opponent out convincingly. Riley – most disappointing, wasn't clean at all, would fumble and mis-kick but followed up so hoping it was an off day. Michie – was tidy I thought, didn't see a lot but like his games just goes about his business quietly and before you know it has 20 possessions. Harmes – like his spirit, after reading the weekly updates I had the picture that he was progressing well and I can see it. Fights for everything and has good hands to clear. He and Hunt look so similar so hope it was him! Haha! Jamar – will be no.1 based on today, dominated Gawn and Spencer and looks in great nick as all previous reports have stated. Happy to comment on anyone else if anyone is interested. End novel.

Good afternoon, fellow attendees, optimists, hair shirt wearers, lemon suckers and innocent bystanders The other posters have covered most of the drills, some was good, some was sloppy, depends on who and what you were watching, watched one run where the ball hit the deck or missed the target throughout, but it still got upfield Roos very vocal today Sad bit, near end of session Alex Neal Bullen was doing some innocuous bag work with Brad Miller and dislocated his knee again, went straight back on, but was carried off on golf cart, not a happy chap. Got 'tightness' out of Howie for his hamstring and a 'wait and see' from Dave Misson, assume they are still testing/scanning. Only others missing were King and Trengove. Spoke to a few players, all said they had been hammered at the camp in Maroochydore, today was light easy session. Hogan is still on a modified program, hates having to stop, doing the same session as Hunt today, who is also returning from back issues. Had a good chat to JKH, sadly lacking in confidence NOT, agreed Nev Jetta is constantly in his ear about improving, another one who has not missed a beat pre season. Bernie Vince seemed to be the only one in rehab, was running laps, got a big thumbs up, so don't think there is a problem there. Somebody a few topics ago asked about Jordie McKenzie and his fitness, full pre seasons etc, this is not his first full pre season, he thinks, but has never been fitter. And for a few that have been asking, asked Nev about Jeff Garlett, he is now regarded as one of the best two way runners at the club, sets the standard, absolutely carved them up in match sim at Maroochydore. Some pics will be on my Twitter Demonpk tomorrow, got other things to do today.

I'll probably be going out on a limb here, but Tyson could be a player.

I don't think it's been possible to hide away from the controversy that's been dominating discussion at Demonland over the selection of Jimmy Toumpas two years ago ahead of Ollie Wines. This year, our first two picks are big bodied midfielders Christian Petracca and Angus Brayshaw, both in the Wines mould and the questions being asked by some were whether they are the man child types who dominate less developed kids and will they prosper at AFL level? They both looked good to me today - they ran well and moved smoothly. Along with the SA brothers in arms ANB and Billy Stretch they showed a fair amount of skill for newbies. I missed ANB's mishap at the end and I'm not so sure that any of our young midfield recruits are going to be instant successes. Petracca impressed me the most. You can see his basketball background shining through and he reminded me of the old Beatles number - there's definitely something in the way he moves. If you want a comparison with a past player, then it's probably Adelaide's Mark Ricciuto.

Agree TDI. And just love The Fitz! Hope he has a break out year!

And also to Saty.

I've read all of your opinions and I still say reverse cowgirl.

Saty's here already, looking sharp. You can tell he's hardly missed a session this pre season.

yeah....and there was jack viney and ollie wines..................oh wait a minute

Stop derailing the thread by posting what we were all thinking but dare not say.

Nice one Redman! Have had 2 reds while reading it though!

My lovely lady attended her first session today, first comment was about how all the players looked fitter, said Spencer has grown into his body, he should not be discounted when discussing the team, but then again I am glad all four rucks Jamar, Gawn, Spencer and Fitzy did the full session todayGot her picture taken with HL which she enjoyed First time my lovely lady saw Spencer was when they still trained at Junction Oval, she watched him from the old stand in his first session, and said we had drafted a baby giraffe

Oh Dear.......I think you will find that the MCC is a lot younger than you think.....made up of supporters of many teams As a MCC member and also a full member of the football club, which is really a donation, I think you perception is rather outdated

Thanks for all the reports It's funny that two D'Landers can watch the same training and have opposite views....One positive and one negative Not having a go at anyone.....just find it "interesting"

H. Lumumba

Todays game has reduced positions to essentially forwards, midfield and backs. Regardless whether you need a number of them, midfield is the most important position. And your best midfielder is the crucial item in your team. They win more contests than they lose (by a margin), they use the ball well by hand and foot to hurt the opposition and they make those teammates around them better players. While the midfield includes the ruck, todays game has restricted the ruckmans role to less than it was 30 years. Its still an important role but not the most important. And I dont buy the argument you can win a flag with a good midfield and a not so forward line. Both have to be good but your midfield must be superior to other teams including the team that becomes the runner up.

His kicking has improved then???

Nothing new, but Dunn really is vocal and looks much stronger than before.

Yes he's fine

Hogan is there ... All doing stretch & jog at the moment

I still remember Wright, Jacovitch and Jacko. Makes me think that we have had some of the most entertaining forwards in the AFL (even aside from the highly talented trio of Lyon, Neitz and Schwartz)!

After watching the replays of this year on foxtel, and it's something I've always believed anyway, I think Gawn has the potential to be a star. He is very mobile and clean at ground level for a bloke his sizzle. His tap work is good and improving and his contested marking is actually pretty good. I think max is already a better player than 3/4 of the starting ruckmen in the afl. And I think he ceiling is a lot higher than what we have seen so far. If fit, 2015 will be a huge year for Maximus.

Give it a rest mate

We seem to have drafted kids that have a good brain. If their footy matches it we are in good hands. And thank God we didn't draft that McCartin kid. He looks like a caveman. I hope he spends his first paycheck doing something about those teeth.

This is how afl.com.au's Peter Ryan views our ruck stocks - Apart from Max King who was picked up as a rookie at the end of 2013 we haven't recruited any ruckmen in the Roos era which indicates to me that the coaching panel don't believe that replenishing our ruck stocks is a major priority over getting the rest of our midfield right.

I tried watching the pro bowl... It was sooooo crapppppppp! Like training drill.

Articulate and very informative report Redman. Much appreciated.

Well done Redman - very informative

Fitzpatrick is still far too skinny and awkward to play as a key forward, Dawes consistently outmuscled him (however he too struggled with his marks)....he is nearly 98K now, Fitzy tends not to involve himself in wrestling when playing, he uses his speed and agility to get free, he has not scored many goals as yet, but check out the vision of the ones he has, you don't want 3 or four guys wrestling their opponents in the forward 50 Toumpas continues to sound like a concern. No he is not, his kicking is fine, he hardly misses a target, watched every session since November Michie Has done nearly every session, never hear Roos pull him up for anything, good solid soldier Here is an interesting bit on the mindset of the players at the moment, Nev Jetta had gastro the day before the 3k, still ran it, so as not to fall behind everybody else

If our guys don't develop this year (I still see Gawn as the one injury free) I would look at either Grundy or Witts, whichever one is not getting a game or playing a secondary role. Before anyone says they won't leave or forget it, remember Roos has a history with rucks who are not getting the prime position. Money and opportunity are a big incentive....

Fitzpatrick is still far too skinny and awkward to play as a key forward, Dawes consistently outmuscled him (however he too struggled with his marks). What concerned me was still the training of kicking the ball sideways. Yes, there is a time and place but our forwards are going to struggle if Melbourne consistently move to ball forwards too slowly (as we have for the past seven years). Having said all that, the positive from this was the composure showed by Grimes off half-back. I've spoken a lot about Toumpas, but he really needs to show something because I just can't see a spot for him. Interestingly, while watching on the sidelines Terlich seemed to make mention of Toumpas' lean-back kicking action which has concerned me from the start. Oscar McDonald has a red hot go too, and while he will take a while to physically develop, the early signs for him are positive.

Cheers to 1964, Clint, Wayne, WJ for the reports today. Good to see there are some differing views in terms of skill level, just goes to show that the boys can miss some targets, but it's also clear we have some true depth in our list for the first time in a decade. The skill level is lifting, the confidence is growing and we seem to be training at an AFL standard. Also good to hear (touch wood) that so many of our list are training. Puts further pressure on each player to train hard and perform for a spot in our best 22, rather than getting it through injuries. Can only be a good thing.

@Demonpk

Can you post a link Saty? I am a Luddite with regards to Twitter and/or Demonpk.p.s. I am following all reports with interest from SE Asia.

I think the modern game (and in particular Hawthorn) have shown that you forward line no longer centres around one key forward. You need a spread of goal kickers not just one avenue. And the attributes you honour in a key forward are attributes that should be present in all your forward options. And the half back "general" who sweeps is not the general but a corporal with good footskills enjoying another uncontested possession due to the hard unheralded work of others. I see the "general" as the person who marshalls the troops up back, leads by example in the contest and on the damaging opponents. They may not pick up wads of possessions but their selfless and skilful deeds on the ground dont go unnoticed by the coaches. Players like Hodge (an outstanding example) and Maxwell are these types

Overall, it wasn't the most taxing session which is understandable after the camp. The rain didn't help, but all in all the skills were quite poor I thought. It's hard to judge individuals too much but I did like the look of Newton, Salem and Jetta as a whole. Hogan's awkward kicking action is still awkward but as others have mentioned he's a competitive beast. I'm struggling to see where Toumpas fits in the team, what type of player is he?

Lovely helicopter pass on to the chest of an opponent by Tom McDonald.

Arise Sir Phillip Duke of Edinburgh, Knight of Australia!! Oh dear, is this Tony setting himself up for some reciprocal "gong" down the track from Liz? Is there a vacancy for the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports at the moment?

Not sure that's right. 17.2 of the AFL code covers appeals: "17.2 Appeals from Decisions Regarding Anti-Doping Rule Violations, Consequences, and Provisional Suspensions." and includes: " …. a decision to impose a Provisional Suspension may be appealed exclusively as provided in this sub-Clause." followed by: "(e) Persons Entitled to Appeal The parties having the right to appeal to the Appeals Board shall be as provided in the NAD Scheme but, at a minimum, shall include the following parties: ASADA and WADA shall also have the right to appeal to CAS with respect to the decision of the Appeals Board. " (i) the Player or other Person who is the subject of the decision being appealed; (ii) the other party to the case in which the decision was rendered; (iii) AFL; (iv) ASADA; and (v) WADA.

Yes, surprised he didn't slip to the Pies.

sorry dazzle. i thought i had put it behind me but vaggy (unintentionally) reopened the wound i'll try harder but it's not easy

Which can be contested by ASADA/WADA and taken to CAS.

I was under the impression that they werent able to train with their club while suspended... as they currently are. So all bans if they were to occur would begin when they stop training?

Players issued with infraction notices will generally step away from competition as part of provisional suspensions, however the sporting bodies involved have discretion which allows them to play. Essentially it is the player's choice, although I understand they need the AFL's permission. Hence EFC small forward Cory Dell'Olio, and former Bomber Nathan Lovett-Murray were cleared to play in the NTFL. However this could be an issue if a ban is imposed as the player gets credit for time served under provisional suspension. Watson and Fletcher played in the International Rules gave, and if they cop a ban they could be out a month or so longer than others.

I see jamar as too slow and unable to contest against young jumpers in the centre. His spider crouch strength is good around the grounds though. Niki nat may actually jump over him in the middle. Injured after 8 games normally. Gawns good in the centre square but his instinct to protect himself going for marks around the ground comes into play after halftime and he goes up one handed. I believe his knees are only good for 8 games as well. Spencer is awkward but enormously strong at the contest. Yet every year they are all training the house down. I would persevere with Spence but I hope Max proves me wrong.

Two things - you won't convince anyone with just the answer, you have to show your work...and I can definitely say that a statement like that will not be the last word on this topic.

Brett had the wonderful ability to find space where there was none. Surrounded by four opposition players, deep in the back pocket, and Father Time slow generally meant the odds were heavily in Brett's favour. Bit of a hip shimmy and out would come a perfectly weighted handball to a running Melbourne player. Along with Sean Wight one of my all time favourite players As others have said another Demon team featuring Lovett, Stretch and Viney can only be a good thing

I hope he is like his father - slow, thighs like treetrunks, couldn't jump - and an absolute champ....