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I'm with you. But I want to see Grimes and Tmac win the kicking drills, Watts the boxing drill and tackling drills and Howe win the involved in the game for 120 minutes drill.

I went along today and arrived during the beep test. On the whole quite a long training day with some pretty entertaining contact/tackling and ball movement drills. Most went pretty hard in the contact drills - it was great to see the competitiveness, though I did cringe with some of the tackles as we don't want any injuries yet..! Jetta got up cradling his arm after one but shook it off thankfully. Other things I noticed include: Garlett struggled in the beep test and some of the running, however in the full length 5 vs 5 (I think?) he burnt off Bail and kicked a beauty inside 50. Hogan's just good at everything ... Gawn did tap to rover work with Harmes for a while, then lots of laps and bike. Also did some running, kicking, marking drills with Kent. Watts, Dawes and Kent also did lots of laps and bike work Trengove was there today with his cast, pushing himself around on some kneeling tricycle contraption. He was shouting encouragement to all the boys out there. Vandenberg is quite a tall, solid unit but being first day might've done half the drills. Too early to tell much. Didn't see White. Dawes looks very fit and lean, probably that diet but I wouldn't want him losing much too much more! Running well though. Petracca is so solid through the legs and hips. In one of the full length drills he had the ball and busted through one tackle and stood up in the second to pass to a team mate. Didn't see much of Brayshaw today, did some laps with Kent early. Hogan, King and Jamar did some speccie marks over a pad. Jamar is also looking in great shape, had a bit of spring, though he did tire during the running. Spencer was there early but then disappeared. Terlich and Vince were continuing rehabbing. McKenzie ran a lot of laps and then did time on the bikes. Bail seemed to be on lighter duties today, not joining in all drills. Neal-Bullen has been impressive with his running. Kept up with all our better runners during the beep test, only beaten by M Jones and Grimes. Toump pushed himself pretty hard. Salem lay some good tackles during contact drills. You can't hold Jones and Viney back either, it's like they're out to hurt their opponents. Garland was struggling to keep up, he's clearly still building up from his low base but hopefully gets a good run at it. There was also a drill involving a ruckman trying to tap to a team mate while another midfielder was tagging/defensive. Tyson was a class above in this drill, read the ball beautifully. Cross hasn't lost any speed, constantly running through all drills. Lumumba also impressive, leading and pushing people. JKH has definitely put on muscle but running really well too. Hopefully we'll see much more of him next season! The new fellas did some ball pick up drills towards the end with Byrnes, who would randomly pass a ball on the ground, low or high around the semi circle. I think the idea was if you fumble you go to the end. Neal-Bullen spent a bit of time at the end ... Stretch looked good as did Petracca.

Watching Jack Grimes absolutely obliterated the field in that running test was inspirational to watch. 40+ crowd and all the players and staff giving him a round of applause. What this drill showed is who has heart,who is willing to push through the pain and also who is actually in the best shape right now. I was skeptical about Grimes in the side in 2015 but if I was a player I would walk prouder knowing he is next to me in the side. And I know Roos will have him in the best 22 in 15.

Grimes has been shackled by so many things at this club: the club feuding, the playing group, his on-field role; his off-field role. This is the first year of his footballing life that is not this way. I have my doubts that he can make it. That said, nothing would make me more pleased than to see his cut the game apart. And if there is a single player on the list with the character to do so, it's Jack Grimes.

Good afternoon interested supporters, including those interstate and overseas, the PC Police and the lemon suckers I was there again, most have covered the drills and observations already, including Grimes' win in the beep test, which I didn't think was unusual as he is one of best trainers when fit A point on Garlett, there was another instance were he was running across field to the right, turned on a sixpence and put a ball down somebody's throat, didn't catch who, on the left, how he saw him I have no idea, leading to Roos shouting 'great vision' The kicking and movement drills seemed very good, but Ben Mathews told me the coaches thought they were 'ordinary' today and the players were told as much, so high standards Interesting bit in one of the contested drills, Dunny put his knees into Viney on the ground and then scragged him, was just about to get interesting when Jack Grimes stepped in to separate them, some of the hits today were meant to hurt, Toumpas got Nev Jetta a beauty as well The new rookie Mitchell White is another big unit, did bits and pieces of the training Aaron Vandenberg, the other new rookie, only arrived late in the morning, brought out by Shannon Byrnes obviously just to get a taste, didn't do anything There were some new toys on display today, a camera on a pole, so they can get above ground vision, Roos showed a bit of interest before training started, there will be pic on Twitter Demonpk, later There was also some strange looking devices being trialled, they are like an oven glove you put on your hand, helps lower your core temperature somehow, looking at using them in Maroochydore and Darwin, pic as well Spoke to Max King, who is a really good kick, got him fit now, weighs in at about 94k now, they want him eventually up around the 100k mark, thinks he is still growing height wise as well Jack Trengove was out there as well, with his trike, pic on Twitter later Spoke to Chris Dawes to confirm he is on an individual program for him, answer is yes, being slightly older and 100k they are doing it slightly different Any questions feel free

Well, we've moved on to another open training date and what should be the first session in which the full list (less those injured or in rehab) is available so, in many respects, the pre season is really on in earnest now. That also means we should have more people watching training, more reporting on it and everyone staying on topic please

Disposal efficiency % is a horrible stat to quote in isolation. inside mid percentages are always going to be lower as they rush kicks out of stoppages. Backmen in the main should have a better % as they do a lot of chipping backwards to unmanned teamates Watts efficiency doesnt surprise as he gets a lot of kicks where has time to dispose of them. Grimes is a whipping boy as he tends to turn over a bit when there is no pressure on at all. He should not be on his own and singled out. I am not critical when balls are turned over under pressure. But three players come to mind who turn it over and miss targets under relatively little or no pressure. TMac, Terlich, Grimes. There are others. People kept quoting Bartrams d/e% which wasnt bad - but he would make horrible clangers ( almost momentum killers) under no pressure at all. Did two against Stkilda a few years back which swung the momentum of the game. It is not the qty of kicks that miss the target- it is when you do them, where you do them, and under how much pressure you are under when you do them.

With Tappy not being re-rookied, thought this trio needed a farewell thread. They're somehow emblematic of our past 5+ years, and encompass the ups and downs ... mainly downs ... we've experienced along the way. Unfair to lump it all on them, or even to lump any of it on them, but through the Bailey and Neeld sackings, the Tanking, 186 and strings of horrible horrible defeats, they were the ever-present three, somehow rubbing our faces in how our drafting and/or development hadn't worked, how bleak our future looked, and how we'd become the laughing-stock of the competition. With their departure, it feels like a chapter of Demons history closes, the chapter that covers all the above, but equally takes us through the untimely deaths of Jimmy, Dean Bailey, Sean Wright and Robbie, as well as the Icarus-like fall of Liam Jurrah ... (to select just a few of our lowlights). Perhaps now, more than ever, we can move forward. Thanks for the memories guys. Amongst it all, there was the odd moment. Hope you have better luck at your next clubs.

Beating Geelong at Geelong.

Good luck with that WJ

Yes, because talking about football is indicative of performance during war.

Thanks to all who contributed to the reports on training. Much appreciated.

We arent blaming him We are thanking him

I know OD....... but at the moment it is December......Posters that get to training can only post what they see at the time and report to us who cant. I like reading the training reports.....I know that they don't mean a lot in December but I find it good to see who is doing what and when, who is pushing hard and who is not, what player are injured and how the young blokes are going......If the training we do doesn't matter then I suppose that none of the clubs would start in November. Christmas is just around the corner OD a time for positives............You can do it......

Or 'end of an error'

Let's us just take it as fact for the moment that it's illegal to import a substance like TB4 into the country. Would you be keen to appear before a tribunal in which some of the main issues were - (i) whether you had prescribed TB4 to a football club for ingestion by its players as part of a supplements programme you had not only devised but helped put into practice? (ii) whether you had imported and sold TB4 to a sports scientist employed by a football club for possible use by its players as part of such a programme? (iii) whether you had compounded a substance including TB4 and then on sell it to a football club football club for possible use by its players as part of such a programme? I'm just trying to get my head around the possible reasons why some people might chose to not make themselves available at a hearing to determine whether players were guilty or innocent of taking a substance that's clearly banned under the WADA Code and the AFL anti doping code. This is especially so given that the people might previously have made statements which are available as evidence on tape concerning those matters. Then, let's just take it that the players have to prove to my comfortable satisfaction that they didn't ingest a banned substance and these witnesses could possibly provide a reasonable alternate explanation. Surely, the players and their advocates should be champing at the bit to ensure that these witnesses appear in order to clear their names and their reputations? Where are they providing the appropriate level of assistance to ASADA in achieving a satisfactory outcome if they are in fact found guilty and try to cut a deal? I'm struggling to work out how the ASADA case which has been overseen by a leading world anti doping figure and an eminent judge is said by some to be on the brink of collapse because some people don't want to turn up to give evidence that could help clear the players if they didn't take TB4.

After reading an article in today's Herald Sun, I've come to the realisation that a lot of Melbourne supporters are looking at something the wrong way. I believe ... that after being at the Melbourne Football Club for six minutes, the Judd-like future Brownlow Medallist named Tom Scully had fallen so in love with the place that he decided to make the ultimate sacrifice to set up the next dominant era of success for the club. By sadly allowing Melbourne to release him to GWS, Melbourne initially netted picks 4 and 13 in the 2011 draft. Firstly, this allowed the Dees to snare the Messiah Hogan and Dom Barry but the follow on affects where huge. By accepting a $1mil x 6 year deal and proceeding to play horrible football at his new club, hampering their rapid rise up the ladder, he stopped GWS from being able to afford to retain talented kids, allowing Melbourne to strike and snare a deal netting us superstar Dom Tyson and future gun Christian Salem. Also by selflessly rejecting way overs of $900k a year from the Dees as he knew we could use it better, he allowed salary cap space to snare Bernie Vince and now Heritier Lumumba to help guide this new era. I'd just like to thank Tom for sacrificing that Brownlow at Melbourne, and bringing into the club Hogan, Tyson, Salem, Vince, Lumumba. Not many would throw away a career so recklessly, but he sure made a very loyal selfless decision.

Preliminary final against the Hawks with a win after the siren when Frawley runs across the mark to give Jack Watts 50 meters and the goal from 35 meters out. F#%kers!

The AFL and ASADA must do everything necessary to ensure that the witnesses are available irrespective of whether they are reliable. If they don't then they might be challenged as to why they didn't take reasonable steps to have them there and the players representatives would no doubt seek to have inferences drawn as to why they didn't make such attempts. So yes - essentially dotting i's and crossing t's.

Kinda girls I bring home from the local on a Friday night....Edit: it's just a joke, stay calm

I'll wait until i see what others say before deciding if i know what i mean

Had a quick peek towRds the end of training today. They started doing full end to end type drills with defensive and attacking switches between teams. Petracca getting involved which is good to see. One thing I did note was the value of Hertier to the younger guys in the drills. Pulled Petracca over a coupe of times with some quiet words of advice (it appeared more to do with where to run/positioning). Might prove to be a strong leader for us i reckon. Skills in the end to end very sharp and (having seen previous years preseasons) there is not the drop off to the end of the sessions that used to occur. Very early days though and with so many new players they seem to still be learning each others style of play.

September even more

Jack Grimes just smashed the beep test running session, Followed by M Jones and Neal Bullen. Next group of guys Hogan, Viney and Toumpas. Jamar, Max King and Garlett all struggled.

The fact that the draft is such an 'event' now really doesn't help these young kids either. It's pretty disgusting really. The AFL are just constantly looking for $ signs wherever they can. We should be easing these kids into the next phase of their footballing careers. Not building it up. Because the reality is, many of these kids who had really great years at under 18's level won't be doing the same at AFL level ever. Petracca has some really exciting attributes to his name. His aerobic ability has never been a 'strength'. I'm glad that session on Monday was a shock to all the draftees because they'll now know the amount of work they have to put in to reap the rewards. Petracca will be absolutely fine as long as his desire to improve is fierce. Thank god we have blokes like Jones, Viney and Cross as players to look up to at training. I'm looking forward to him showing glimpses in the games that he plays next year. That's all I want from Petracca and Brayshaw next year. Glimpses.

I was contemplating the recent trade ins, draftees and now rookies, and its apparent that competition for a spot in our team has gone up several notches and will be hard to earn. That Lumumba, Gartlett, Frost, Hogan, are coming into the team, with the loss of just Frawley (Clarke we never really had) means several 2014 regulars won't get a regular game. That what many reported to be the hardest day of training at the MFC occured on the same day as our high pick recruits arrived was no co-incidence. It was intended to give them a rapid reality check that simply being a high draft pick won't get you into this team in 2015 - A mental and physical shock' for Demon draftees after brutal running session, that both our two prize pick in Petracca and Brayshaw were suitably humbled was the intention. That we just picked up two new rookies Aaron Vandenberg (aged 22, 188 cm, 90 kgs) and Mitchel White (aged 18, 188 cm, 85kg), both competing for midfield and flankers spots. That Grimes reliquished the Captaincy to focus on his football, read, staying in our best 22. All indicates that Roo's is consciously creating an high performance environment with intense competition for spots in the MFC 22, and that the bar is high and getting higher. It feels different to anything I've seen at this club for a long time, and bodes well.

is that a trick question ??

Given the shite we have produced onfield that is a fantastic result.

Toumpas not only shirtfronted Nev but threw him to the ground slightly hurting Nev's shoulder. Jetta went off for about 20mins for treatment. It was pretty serious stuff out there today. Dunn's "tackle" on Viney was a bit crude and would have come under notice from the MRP if it happened in a game. What I liked about this particular incident was that Viney did not retaliate but just pushed Dunny away and continued on with the drill. With regard to Toumpas, he is doing everything right and is leaving nothing on the park to achieve the level of fitness required to be an above average AFL footballer. There seems to be a heavy focus on improving his defensive skills which was one of his weaknesses last season. His two-way running has been quite noticeable. He's been my best performer this pre-season.

Sorry English term, having a person on the ground and not caring what you grab to keep them there, Roos has got them belting and wrestling each other on a regular basis, one of the highlights of this years training for me, apart from the improved ball use, they are slowly and surely beginning to look like a Roos coached team

Complains about Melbourne's professionalism and culture. Melbourne now have Paul Roos. GWS have Heath Shaw and Toby Greene.

Gee this "Demonland Group Think" Grimes disposal issue is getting tired. Talk about a whipping boy. I admit his disposal is not great but hes not on his own and IMO is getting singled out. Last season his Effective Disposal % was 78.0% compared to others below it stacks up pretty well. Jones 73.6% Watts 80% Tyson 72.6% Vince 64.7% Garland 78.9% Jetta 87.7% Dunn 79.5% I might be biased and you can make statistic work many ways but Grimes disposal is no worse than many others. I can see pass the odd missed target and take him for what he is. PS Matt Suckling regarded as one of the best kicks in the comp went at 78.8%

Back off Tom Scully, pleads GWS coach. He's a 'running machine' http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-12-05/back-off-tom-scully

What's his post-midnight, pre-dawn driving like?

Garbage, Blease was lazy plain and simple. I remember watching preseason our two young midfield stars Gysberts and Blease the last pair in the running and battling, you can go back through training reports would have been Gysberts 2nd or 3rd year and Bleases 3rd or 4th, a number of us expressed concern back then about these two, nothing to do with development it was them doing what they needed to do to get better, basic fitness. Bailey and co put up with is, Neeld didn't and Roos didn't, be interesting how Blease goes at another club, my money is like Gysberts he will be out of the AFL in a couple of years. Strauss and Tappy unfortunately just couldn't stay healthy. You need some luck with your body and these two got none. Strauss I still think could have been a decent AFL player, Tappy to me was extremely limited, couldn't run through the midfield to slow for that forward pocket role, to small for a hit up HFF, looked OK as a small defender but his pace would have been exposed so even if fit I don't know where he would fit.

Bump

"Cringe."

TOM SCULLY is a ‘running machine’ and the best two-way runner Leon Cameron has ever seen ‘by a country mile.’ hahaha pull the other one Leon 1 million a year for a spud. Deal with it

True, although it's good to hear players doing well as it indicates they are injury free and already having a good pre-season. If Grimes is winning a running test like that then I think we can be pleased that he is injury free and moving well. It's all we can really take out of it at this point in the year anyway.

I'm still angry at the little rat for lying to me out the front of the G when I asked him the question if he was going.

Interesting, how would you compare thier AFL careers so far?

just when i thought i couldnt get more excited about Petracca you go and say this

Does anybody else just think 'whatever' when reading about beep tests and so forth? Over the years I have noticed zero correlation between blokes who excel on the training track and players who actually do any damage on game day. Case-in-point Bail and the recently departed Nicholson. I would prefer to see the results of testing on brains, skills and guts

It is in April that it counts

Why can't we just celebrate the fact that we have just drafted a player considered by the majority of AFL recruiters and many other judges of junior talent in the sport as the finest and best young player in the land? Why can't we then enjoy the fact that we have as coach of the club a man who is well paid and respected and who has in the past moulded some very good footballing talent into a premiership winning combination? Everything that happens in the future is entirely in the lap of the gods but for now we have just picked up Petracca, a handful of well regarded young talent and a few players of ability from other clubs, a couple who have performed well before at the highest level. They are what has been added to our list to help us move forward. That's the reality of the present and what we have now and in this current climate.

"You just snared two star midfielders in Christian Petracca and Angus Brayshaw. Finally your midfield actually has some players. Some kind of relief?" That's his FIRST bloody 'question'. There's a difference between 'fair and honest' and 'condescending, obnoxious belittlement'. Nathan Jones says hi BTW, the bloke who has just won three blueys

bloody hell...look like kiddies off to school ( primary !! )