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Which well-worn point am I?

Hawthorn had a similar strategy several years ago - I remember watching them and it was clear they were happy to lose the centre clearance and win the ball across half back to set up their forward play when the opposition was then caught off guard. Good news for us if intercept marks are going to be a key plank in future game plans Jack Watts will be an astute pick up in hindsight. In all seriousness, my wife supports the Cats so I see most of their games and I am green with envy - they are just a joy to watch play. They play hard, accountable yet free-flowing footy and they will win the premiership again this year (barring serious injuries). They really do "play the game as it should be played" and it drives me crazy that I then attend matches to watch the MFC turn in performances like last Sunday. The contrast is so vast it's almost like watching a different sport. I look forward to the day I can turn up to Melbourne games and be happy to be going to the footy again rather than frustrated, angry and bored.

some of you guys are disgusting. We have next to no experienced players worth a cracker in our team and you're ready to just let him walk. Some of the crap you guys say about him really makes me wonder why we have such a crappy culture at MFC.. The guy tries hard for Melbourne and i honestly believe he is clicking, finally. If he isnt around Melbourne will have trully lost a player who has much more give, look at the glass half full.. let him fill the glass in the next 4-6 years. I say fight tooth and nail for him. You cannot honestly tell me you'd rather replace Colin with someone like Tom Couch or Magner. That is not something i would be willing to do

Ha HA Ha!

Top 10? Richmond fans will be ecstatic....

Clearly he wasn't doing it for us so why does it matter? He'd still be languishing away at Casey because he (quote from him) 'didn't have faith in Neeld and felt that Neeld didn't have faith in him'. I'd say his ego was probably too big... you can't have a player who is bigger than the coach. Just move on.

Casey have finally cottoned-on to the Melbourne Game Plan and are executing very well.

That vibe is just a psychological defence mechanism, sorry to break it to you. I feel illogically optimistic most weeks; I've learned to ignore it. We are going to get reamed.

I know it's not the Dees but I have just witnessed one of the more biased umpiring performances of all time. Talk about getting WCE home. Am I that wrong or were there a series of decisions that brought them back into the contest?

GCS just touched up the Dogs. Prestia 22 touches. Did some hard running.

Only by teams who are aiming to win rather than aiming to be competitive for as long as they can.... http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-05-18/competitiveness-the-aim

24 touches, 7 tackles, and a goal against one of the best sides this year in an upset win... But I guess he's a downhill skier and we're on the right track with Neeld and our 10 goal losses to Gold Coast at the G.

And the drugs have worn off............nnnnnnnnnnnnnnow!

Not sticking up for Jack necessarily, as he's fallen well below what we hoped for, but you forgot to mention all the other games where Nic Nat had one or two highlights then went missing for 3.5 quarters. Or that Nic Nat is about one full year older than Watts. But of course, that would spoil your cheap, snapshot example of how easy it is to be a draft expert with the help of hindsight. Congratulations Retro.

You're not suggesting that we drafted poorly circa 2008 are you? My God. Thank heavens you are here to point that out, we may not have noticed otherwise.

This thread is a prime example of why I will never trust the greater membership to vote us out of this predicament.

If Clark had been out (injured) this week it could have been Out: Spencer Davis Clark Kent. We also have the Barry McKenzie permutation (for those old enough to remember).

Back in 2011 my expectations were to push for finals (probably not make it) and to be competative and have no more blow outs. What happened in Geelong that year was totally unaceptable and I don't begrudge the club for sacking Bailey and they should have sacked Schwab then also. Since that time we've learnt that Bailey let the players call the shots, didn't push them enough and there was a divide between players and admin. Whether Neeld is the right man or not remains to be seen (looking at this point in time that he isn't). But no one can tell me that he hasn't been given the most difficult job in footy in re-shaping a club culture and setting new standards where players have gotten away with to much for to long. There was always going to be collateral damage, it just seems that there's been a lot more then anyone expected. eg. Loosing the amount of senior players we did and the blow outs that are taking place. We have only 14 players on our list that have played 50 games or more and only 8 that have played over 100, none of those having got to 200. Those 8 players are Rodan (won't be there next year), Davey (same as Rodan you'd think), Sylvia, N. Jones, MacDonald (see Rodan), Frawley, Byrnes, Dunn. The point of this is although we shouldn't be loosing by the amounts that we are, until we get more games into the likes of Viney, Toumpas, Hogan, Evans, Kent, Evans, Blease, McDonald, Tapscott etc then we can't expect to win to many. Throw into that mix the names Gawn. Howe, Trengove, Grimes, Garland, Taggert, Clark, Dawes, Watts, none of which have played 100 games and I see a very reasonable base, unfortunatly it's very inexperienced. That's why IMO if we can keep the group together along with our required experienced players (like Sylvia), throw in a Prestia, 1 or two quality mids through FA and this years draft and that's where I see the improvement coming from. Whether Neeld's the right man for the job or not I don't know, but the talent is there, it's just which coach can light the fuse. As mentioned I don't think Rodan will be there next year, nor Gillies. Pedersen I don't agree with a 3 year deal, but as I said in his thread I reckon he'll simply be a depth player in case Frawley or McDonald go down for the next two years while we draft another young tall and allow them 2 years to develop at Casey. So all I can say is expect 1 or 2 more senior recruits at seasons end to provide some experience and leadership to the player group and that will be whether Neeld's there or not. And if we can't get stars then they'll probably look at the likes of Adam Selwood, Farren Ray etc. You may not like it, but it's where we're at. Doesn't mean that once our young core have got some games into them that the improvement won't come quick though.

We already have a dearth of senior experience we can't afford to lose a guy like Sylvia despite how much he frustrates me. The time to let him go was 3-4 years ago when we could've got something decent back but to see him walk for nothing would be a blow.

If you don't think Jack Watts would've kicked that, you've got rocks in your head. One of the better kicks in the league.

He's the kind of guy that will be 32-33 if/when this team is thinking about finals. And he'll play to that age. You need that experience these days. Sign him.

Why would we want to lose another experienced player, and pick up someone else from another club that no-one else wants? We need to stand up and show our boys a bit of loyalty, if we expect them to show it to us in return. The last few years we have been very disloyal, discarding players for no good reason and then picking rejects to 'replace' them. This must be very disheartening to those that remain - and not very good for their mind set. I know that Col has shown more promise than he has delivered, but I still think we can't afford to lose him. We want to make Melbourne a club people want to stay at, rather than one where they jump before they are pushed.

Ugh. There's so much wrong with this that it beggars belief. I'll deal with only one point and that was the decision by Gutnick to reveal the salary cap breach. At the time, we were told that the fact that we came clean on the breach saved us from far more severe sanctions than we otherwise would have received. Gutnick's action was considered at the time to be an example of proper corporate governance. The pros and cons of Gutnick's term can be debated long and hard but it was on his watch that we made our last grand final and it was after he was deposed that we fell into a fiscal black hole. Life was a lot happier for Demon fans back in Joe's days even with those salary cap penalties.

Joel Macdonald? James Sellar? Jake Spencer? Who am I missing?

As you said, we can't afford to loose Col. 3 year deal and make this man a Demon for life, I've been impressed with his work rate this season. Would be a huge boost for the club (and Neeld) if this can get done soon! After Col our attention can then turn to big Max.

Your prediction of an extremely low number of wins (1) for the season has become a bit of a recurring theme by others as well. I just quoted your post. If I went through the entire thread there would be many others to quote apart from yours. Your post simply allowed me to express my views on the matter. I've seen other posters on this thread come out with the "What did you all expect?" and the classic "Instant gratification" jibe. (some of these very same posters were predicting a finals finish in 2012!) It's coming across as giving up on the team. The very thing that many of our supporters are accusing the team of doing (giving up) The excuses have effectively turned into a massive lowering of expectations. And that is dangerous ground. We shouldn't be chucking in the towel and our expectations for this team shouldn't change. I expect wins and so should all of us. Don't let the team beat you down. Demand more, not less. I'm not being unrealistically optimistic - we are totally under performing as a club and we're capable of so much better. At the moment, our players aren't giving a yelp - whatever the reason is, they had better improve in a hurry. Our list is quite capable of winning some games in the remainder of the season. Probably not in the next month and possibly not under Neeld (although I haven't ruled out that he might coach a lot better) There is always a junk time win or 2 at the end of the season as well. Here's what our players don't do enough of. What if all or most of our players get much better at the following? It's an interesting exercise to go through each of our players on our list and then measure that player against each item. All of our players can improve dramatically in all these areas of the game, if they want to. A lot of it is a pure mindset and it's not always related to natural ability ... Our current crop of players can't think for themselves. The team has no confidence. Has no dash and daring. Has very little teamwork. We don't lay anywhere near enough effective tackles. We don't run to position. We don't kick to position. We don't shepherd or block We don't back each other up. We play from behind. We're constantly 2nd to the ball. Gut running isn't part of our game plan. Our disposal skills are woeful. We hang our heads too much. We don't use the corridor anywhere near enough. Our 2nd and 3rd efforts are generally poor We play an outdated game style. We don't talk out on the ground. Give and go handballing - rarely see it. The players don't care enough when we lose. Our players are lazy. We don't man up. We give up too easily. We don't chase or tackle with enough intent. Our forwards get caught from behind too much. Our clearance work and system out of the middle is virtually non existent. We don't know how to win. We're generally soft.

Col Sylvia is Melb most talented player .. Also an unrestricted free agent .. Dees want to talk .. He will decide action plan soon .. Tweet from Mark Stevens. What do we think. Sylvia has frustrated me over the years but this year and towards the end of last year we started to see something. I was annoyed that he got himself rubbed out for 3 weeks and that was a man who was frustrated. But I dont think we can afford to lose another experienced player.

It's not so much that West Coast in Perth get howlers in their favour - even though they do - it's that they get so many 50-50 frees in comparison with their opponents. Last night's frees to Shooey (who dived forward) and Selwood (who shrugged and took the tackle, and didn't deserve the free) were typical and in stark contrast to the free North did not get at the other end a couple of minutes earlier when a Toast player clearly flopped onto the back of a North player. Also, the commentators were very quick, too quick, to state that the free to Selwood was warranted and congratulated the umpire for paying the free when he was "unsighted". If he was unsighted, why was he giving a free? More likely the umpire, urged on by the crowd, anticipated the free and/or guessed it was high. Terrible umpiring.

This is just like watching Melbourne.

We'd still have 22 witches hat in Melbourne guernseys except one would be doing a hell of a palm tree impersonation.

Last week we had "attempted tackles". Maybe this week we will examine our "attempted running". "We tried to run 287 times, but it only worked 164 times. You can't win games with that kind of differential."

We should offer Sylvia a reasonable offer for someone of his ilk, equivalent of what he'd get elsewhere maybe with a small loyalty bonus. I wouldn't pay excessive overs just to keep him, as I'd rather spend that on the open market and add value to the club that way.

that's different to saying "let him walk"....fighting for something, giving our best shot and then being unsuccessful would be a step in the right direction for this club at the moment.....

You mean the one you and many others 'talked down'? If the difference is between a 'D' midfield and an 'E' midfield - then what does it matter? Neeld couldn't get rid of him quick enough and while I have not seen much in the way of sound judgement from Neeld I am not about to throw away my own negative convictions when it came to Brent Moloney. I recall many times in 2011 and 2012 when I felt his 'leadership' was wanting and his form was only valuable in one direction. He averaged 10 less possessions in wins than in losses - while Jones averaged one possession more in losses. He had some very good years at this club and I hope one day he can come back to a place he has great affection for, but not only is he not the answer to our present troubles, he was apart of the problem.

Wow the Selwoods drive me crazy the way they drop the shoulders ins contest for a free kick. Its borderline cheating

Sylvia's signature will act like a barometer for where the club/FD are at. Sylvia has been at the club for close to a decade but the majority of his mates are gone. Sign him and perhaps satryconhome's rosy pictures are true. He leaves and our club parts way with a quality player that we can ill afford to loose

Sign him up. Quality player not a team in the comp he wouldn't get a game for. Perhaps hasn't reached his potential but we can't keep losing our best players.

I agree, we need our best team on the park for a stretch of games, a break out year from 2-3 blokes and abit of confidence back and things could turn quickly. Just look at Port.

Repeat after me: Presidents aren't just figureheads. Presidents aren't just figureheads. Presidents aren't just figureheads.

I think David Schwarz would make an excellent media personality. When PJ said we needed to bring in the best people in the business, I'm very doubtful that he was implying Ox. Your "good source" is yanking your chain.

Ok so you blame the admin who revealed the infringements rather than those who actually infringed (and also tried to merge the club)?? Right. I didn't know much about the behind the scenes stuff then (as I was too young to care) but I loved how Gutnick used to stand up for us in the media rather than let the club get trod on like pretty much every other President has since I've been watching.

I admire your loyalty. Generally I hate early sacking of a coach. But do yourself a favor and watch the highlights from Dees v Ess R11 in 2011. (the link is onthe post "when we were good) That's right! Less than 2 years ago. Watch the extraordinary skills, both of a number of players still with us, and less satisfactorily, of those who are gone.Watch their enthusiasm for the game and incidentally, of the crowd. THIS WAS THE LIST NEELD TOOK OVER! it was not crap at all, it was young, promising, lacking in experience, but with great attacking flair. A couple of weeks before the match v Ess we beat the Crows by 96 points. The week after the Ess match we drew with the Pies. Later we beat Freo by 98 points. One cannot think about all this without admitting that the list has deteriorated immensely. The few experienced players have been sidelined and down rated. 2 kids have had to act as captain, to their footballing detriment This was the list Neeld took over. It was not a bad list at all, as all commentators at the end of 2010 commented. I simply cannot nderstand how he can get away with the excuses. Not fit--BS! Lacking in character--rubbish. For whatever reason Neeld simply hasn't worked out. Stop the recriminations, but make the change now. There is not the slightest point in waiting.

You have demonstrated to me and most on here with this post, your clear hypocritical attitude.You have said previously this Board was pathetic in not telling the AFL everything about the Dank affair and yet you condemn Joe for telling the truth to the AFL about systematic cheating on the salary cap. At the same time you don't mention those that were responsible for it, the Board at the time. You attack him for his corporate life and I am not defending that or commenting on it, as I don't know all that you know, but you fail to mention the fact that he donated $2.7m to save the cub and opposed the merger with others like Brian Dixon. For what it is worth I can give you another fact to digest, he is one of the biggest donors to Jewish and Non Jewish charities in Australia. He has personally helped many many families and individuals in Australia and there are plenty of hospitals and educational facilities that see him differently to you. Why the f..k would anyone help this club when they are opened to this sort of garbage attack on them. Please feel free to defame at your leisure.

Moloney taken us to school when we played Brisbane, made us look second rate. Yet some here will have you believe he wouldn't be in our best 18.

MFC - Baffling its members since 2007

Ah screw it, whatever. Should've made it four, let's get crazy.

Is this the right room for an argument?

Relax, we've got this...

Lance Franklin won't come to the MFC even if we pay him 2 million bucks a year but having said that I think people are being a little harsh on the OP. If Franklin was a genuine chance of moving to us (as I said unrealistic to my mind) we'd be crazy to overlook him because of list balance reasons. We are at such a low ebb. If a star of the competition is prepared to come to the current joke of the competition you take him. Structurally we'd obviously have to make changes. Clark could move into the first ruck position (where he made the All Australian squad) and be dangerous when resting forward. Dawes could play deep and Hogan at CHF and Buddy could have complete license to roam the forward line pushing up to the wing as he regularly does now. With Howe floating around we'd have the most exciting forward line of the past 50 years. What Franklin would bring is excitement, renewed enthusiasm, membership, sponsorship and other players. If Franklin announced he was coming here how much easier would it be to convince an Eddie Betts to come and rove off the likes of Franklin, Dawes, Clark and Hogan? How much easier would it be to convince Deon Prestia to come back to Victoria? Snaring Buddy wouldn't necessarily mean we could attract another midfielder or even two. The trickle on effect from Buddy signing could be incredible. Of course the midfield is our weakness but you don't turn your back on one of the biggest names in the competition if you get the opportunity.

So not reading it would be a better option than sooking?